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Enceladus Plume Search, Nov. 27
jmknapp
post Nov 24 2005, 04:01 PM
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Interesting item in the science plan kernel (S16) just released to the NAIF website:

OBSERVATION_ID: S1629

SEQUENCE: S16

OBSERVATION_TITLE: Plume Search

SCIENCE_OBJECTIVE: Hope to detect/observe plumes, whether from volcanic activity or geysers.

OBS_DESCRIPTION: Point and stare.

SUBSYSTEM: ISS

PRIMARY_POINTING: ISS_NAC to Enceladus (0.0,5.0,0.0 deg. offset)

REQUEST_ID: ISS_018EN_PLUMES001_PRIME

REQUEST_TITLE: ENCELADUS Geyser/Plume Search

REQ_DESCRIPTION: 1;ENCELADUS Geyser/Plume Search 1x1xNPp -- 3 different exposures

BEGIN_TIME: 2005 NOV 27 19:00:00 UTC

END_TIME: 2005 NOV 27 20:00:00 UTC


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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Dec 2 2005, 12:19 PM
Post #102





Guests






QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 2 2005, 08:14 AM)
The question that comes to my mind is:

If that's the case, then maybe Enceladus started out a lot bigger and has been losing mass -- and size -- for billions of years.  Otherwise, you'd have to think that the activity we're seeing now is relatively rare, and we're lucky to be seeing it...

-the other Doug
*


This just might explain why Enceladus has the highest density -- and thus the biggest rocky core relative to its size -- of any of the smaller Saturnian moons.
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jmknapp
post Dec 2 2005, 01:21 PM
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Regarding Enceladus' density, Wikipedia quotes the current Cassini-derived estimate of 1.61 g/cm^3.

Conversely, in 1994 an article was published in Icarus where the abstract states:

"Using the observed shape alone, without any other assumptions other than that the satellite is in hydrostatic equilibrium at its present orbital radius, we place an upper bound on the mean density of 1.12 +/- 0.05 g/cu cm. Thus, the mean density of Enceladus is probably little more than that of water-ice and we conclude that this satellite is markedly deficient in rock."

My how things change.

The abstract continues:

"If the mass of a satellite is unknown, but the satellite is differentiated and has a deep mantle of known composition, then we show that measurement of the shape alone can lead to a determination of the satellite's mass, mean density, and moment of inertia. Application of this method to Enceladus, assuming that the satellite has a deep mantle of water-ice of density 0.93 g/cu cm, gives the result that the mean density of the satellite is 1.00 +/- 0.03 g/cu cm. This result fills the one remaining gap in our knowledge of the structure of the Saturnian satellite system.We now know the mean densities of all the primary Saturnian satellites in the sequence from the coorbital satellites, Janus and Epimetheus, through to the outer satellite Iapetus (the densities of the small, secondary satellites in Trojan-type orbits are still unknown)."

Gotta be careful of the "we now knows" I guess.


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The Messenger
post Dec 3 2005, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 2 2005, 06:21 AM)
Regarding Enceladus' density, Wikipedia quotes the current Cassini-derived estimate of 1.61 g/cm^3.

Conversely, in 1994 an article was published in Icarus where the abstract states:

"Using the observed shape alone, without any other assumptions other than that the satellite is in hydrostatic equilibrium at its present orbital radius, we place an upper bound on the mean density of 1.12 +/- 0.05 g/cu cm. Thus, the mean density of Enceladus is probably little more than that of water-ice and we conclude that this satellite is markedly deficient in rock."

My how things change.

The abstract continues:

...We now know the mean densities of all the primary Saturnian satellites [/b] in the sequence from the coorbital satellites, Janus and Epimetheus, through to the outer satellite Iapetus (the densities of the small, secondary satellites in Trojan-type orbits are still unknown)."

Gotta be careful of the "we now knows" I guess.
*

I keep arguing with Bruce, with everybody really, that these constant revisions of solar masses and/or gravity anomalies are symptomatic of a weak second-order gravimetric effect that is STILL causing gross underestimates of outer planet and moon masses.

This is why it is so imparative that Cassini makes the gravity runs as scheduled. If the concept is correct, every moon of Saturn will yield unrealistic gravity anomalies upon closest-approach - much like Ganymede, only worse.
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ugordan
post Dec 3 2005, 06:33 PM
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Since I haven't seen anyone else do it, here's an animated GIF I put together from the 4 images that used the same exposure (which best shows details in the plumes). The images were resized to compensate for the changing distance. The GIF rapidly runs back and forth and vividly shows the parallax effect of Cassini's viewing geometry. I don't believe the changes in the appearance of the plumes are due to their temporal variability, they appear to be constant.

If you concentrate on the Saturnshine lit right side of Enceladus, you get a better feel of the rotating view. Since we're viewing the tiger stripes broadside (so they're nicely sorted out distance-wise), I think it's fairly obvious that we're seeing plumes from all the tiger stripes because the ones farther from the limb would exhibit more parallax than the near ones. It's evident there's a wide range of parallax motion. Most of the plumes seem to be located on the far side of the point around which Cassini's view is rotating, which seems to fit with the fact more tiger stipes actually are on the far side of the limb.
Attached Image


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David
post Dec 3 2005, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 3 2005, 06:33 PM)
I don't believe the changes in the appearance of the plumes are due to their temporal variability, they appear to be constant.

If you concentrate on the Saturnshine lit right side of Enceladus, you get a better feel of the rotating view. Since we're viewing the tiger stripes broadside (so they're nicely sorted out distance-wise), I think it's fairly obvious that we're seeing plumes from all the tiger stripes because the ones farther from the limb would exhibit more parallax than the near ones.
*


Thanks! That is a very helpful summation of the images. But looking at it, I get the impression that the three bursts that I can associate with the tiger stripes are actually double -- which you might expect if the bursts are not coming from the middle of the stripes, but in parallel lines down each side of the stripes. Is this possible, or is it just an illusion?
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Posts in this topic
- jmknapp   Enceladus Plume Search, Nov. 27   Nov 24 2005, 04:01 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 2 2005, 08:14 AM)The qu...   Dec 2 2005, 12:19 PM
|- - jmknapp   Regarding Enceladus' density, Wikipedia quotes...   Dec 2 2005, 01:21 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 2 2005, 06:21 AM)Regardi...   Dec 3 2005, 03:09 PM
|- - ugordan   Since I haven't seen anyone else do it, here...   Dec 3 2005, 06:33 PM
||- - David   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 3 2005, 06:33 PM)I don...   Dec 3 2005, 08:58 PM
||- - mars loon   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 3 2005, 06:33 PM)Since I...   Dec 4 2005, 10:48 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Dec 3 2005, 07:09 AM)I...   Dec 5 2005, 02:49 AM
|- - tfisher   Hear, hear, JRehling. Standard physics is well te...   Dec 5 2005, 03:28 AM
- - Bill Harris   I seem to recall reading that the mass of material...   Dec 2 2005, 02:11 PM
- - volcanopele   I'll try to answer some of the questions posed...   Dec 2 2005, 06:39 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Dec 2 2005, 02:39 PM)I...   Dec 3 2005, 09:26 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 3 2005, 10:26 PM)Thanks ...   Dec 5 2005, 08:21 AM
|- - ugordan   I probably misunderstood what The Messenger was tr...   Dec 5 2005, 09:27 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 5 2005, 04:21 AM)Don...   Dec 5 2005, 12:09 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 5 2005, 01:09 PM)The orb...   Dec 5 2005, 12:22 PM
||- - jmknapp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 5 2005, 08:22 AM)EDIT: A...   Dec 5 2005, 05:21 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 5 2005, 06:21 PM)I'd...   Dec 7 2005, 12:19 PM
||- - jmknapp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 7 2005, 08:19 AM)The sit...   Dec 7 2005, 02:57 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 7 2005, 03:57 PM)But Enc...   Dec 7 2005, 03:20 PM
|- - JRehling   No one has mentioned this yet: A gas might escape ...   Dec 5 2005, 02:19 PM
|- - ugordan   Gaseous diffusion you're talking about has eve...   Dec 5 2005, 02:36 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   One thing to keep in mind is all those dark speckl...   Dec 3 2005, 11:48 AM
- - Decepticon   ^ Now thats cool! Nice job.   Dec 3 2005, 06:37 PM
- - edstrick   The Voyager estimates of masses and densities for ...   Dec 5 2005, 11:02 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (edstrick @ Dec 5 2005, 07:02 AM)But th...   Dec 5 2005, 12:20 PM
- - tasp   Would solar UV ionize the gas? Then Saturn's ...   Dec 5 2005, 02:49 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (tasp @ Dec 5 2005, 03:49 PM)Would sola...   Dec 5 2005, 02:57 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (tasp @ Dec 5 2005, 10:49 AM)Would sola...   Dec 5 2005, 03:53 PM
- - volcanopele   Press Release: NASA's Cassini Images Reveal Sp...   Dec 6 2005, 07:24 PM
|- - jmknapp   Exploring this ice sublimation theory some more......   Dec 7 2005, 11:02 AM
- - edstrick   "...the 1994 peer-reviewed Icarus paper ......   Dec 7 2005, 12:01 PM
- - dvandorn   I assume the effects of the other moons have been ...   Dec 7 2005, 09:41 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 7 2005, 10:41 PM)I assu...   Dec 7 2005, 10:05 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 7 2005, 01:41 PM)My bet...   Dec 8 2005, 08:21 PM
- - dvandorn   Well, yes -- it's all relative. The other Gal...   Dec 7 2005, 11:02 PM
|- - silylene   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 7 2005, 11:02 PM)From s...   Dec 8 2005, 02:54 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 7 2005, 07:02 PM)My poi...   Dec 8 2005, 05:44 PM
- - mike   Given that Europa is less massive than Io, it seem...   Dec 8 2005, 06:01 PM
- - nprev   Is the average density of Enceladus significantly ...   Dec 8 2005, 06:41 PM
- - deglr6328   What about K-40 abundances? All the Al-26 should h...   Dec 8 2005, 11:48 PM
- - nprev   Just out of curiosity, was there any anomalous mag...   Dec 9 2005, 12:24 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 8 2005, 08:24 PM)Just out ...   Dec 9 2005, 11:32 AM
|- - dvandorn   So, they're saying that the deflection of Satu...   Dec 9 2005, 04:10 PM
||- - jmknapp   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 9 2005, 12:10 PM)So, th...   Dec 9 2005, 05:01 PM
|- - nprev   Thanks for the magnetometer vector slide, Jim; mos...   Dec 11 2005, 10:27 AM
- - dvandorn   So.... are they excluding the possibility that the...   Dec 9 2005, 05:11 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 9 2005, 01:11 PM)So.......   Dec 9 2005, 07:29 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 9 2005, 10:11 AM)So.......   Dec 9 2005, 07:31 PM
|- - jmknapp   Here's an animation of the Christmas flyby: E...   Dec 15 2005, 02:15 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 9 2005, 07:29 PM)On anot...   Dec 10 2005, 06:36 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 10 2005, 02:36 AM)It...   Dec 10 2005, 07:29 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 10 2005, 08:29 PM)Not su...   Dec 10 2005, 08:08 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 10 2005, 04:08 PM)I...   Dec 11 2005, 01:41 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 11 2005, 02:41 AM)I prog...   Dec 11 2005, 12:27 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 11 2005, 08:27 AM)It...   Dec 11 2005, 03:17 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 11 2005, 04:17 PM)Yes, I...   Dec 11 2005, 03:27 PM
|- - hendric   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 11 2005, 09:17 AM)Yes, I...   Dec 12 2005, 05:37 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (hendric @ Dec 12 2005, 01:37 AM)Well, ...   Dec 12 2005, 12:50 PM
- - Rob Pinnegar   Just as a sidenote to the main thread: There's...   Dec 11 2005, 04:13 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Dec 11 2005, 09:13 AM)S...   Dec 11 2005, 06:01 PM
- - Jeff7   Another passing thought/wild theory: What if Iapet...   Dec 11 2005, 06:32 PM
- - nprev   I just had a thought: What if there is a "flu...   Dec 12 2005, 07:17 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Dec 11 2005, 06:32 PM)Another ...   Dec 12 2005, 08:21 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 12 2005, 07:17 AM)I just h...   Dec 12 2005, 08:24 AM
- - edstrick   A significant current along a magnetic flux-tube w...   Dec 12 2005, 09:28 AM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (edstrick @ Dec 12 2005, 02:28 AM)A sig...   Dec 12 2005, 09:00 PM
- - volcanopele   jmknapp, keep in mind that it isn't just plume...   Dec 12 2005, 09:06 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Dec 12 2005, 02:06 PM)jm...   Dec 12 2005, 09:08 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 12 2005, 05:08 PM)Aren...   Dec 13 2005, 06:44 PM
|- - jmknapp   Interesting correlation here... an Enceladus albed...   Dec 14 2005, 12:30 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 14 2005, 01:30 PM)There ...   Dec 14 2005, 03:02 PM
- - tty   Note the darker "cores" to the high albe...   Dec 14 2005, 06:12 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (tty @ Dec 14 2005, 06:12 PM)Note the d...   Dec 14 2005, 09:37 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (dilo @ Dec 14 2005, 05:37 PM)I have im...   Dec 14 2005, 11:35 PM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 15 2005, 10:35 AM)BTW, w...   Dec 15 2005, 12:02 AM
|- - ugordan   jmknapp: Seriously, you should think about writing...   Dec 15 2005, 02:49 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 15 2005, 06:49 AM)jmknap...   Dec 15 2005, 04:40 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 15 2005, 12:40 PM).....   Dec 15 2005, 05:34 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 15 2005, 09:34 AM)Yeah, ...   Dec 15 2005, 05:43 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 15 2005, 05:43 PM)Ye...   Dec 15 2005, 07:25 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 15 2005, 10:43 AM).....   Dec 15 2005, 10:39 PM
- - hendric   Ugordan, You should write up a paper and submit ...   Dec 14 2005, 10:27 PM
- - edstrick   nprev: "The whole reason I'm pushing the...   Dec 15 2005, 10:24 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   One prediction which is becoming fairly consistent...   Dec 15 2005, 11:24 AM
- - edstrick   One thing that seems clear is that during "he...   Dec 15 2005, 11:34 AM
- - Phil Stooke   In the specific case that was being discussed here...   Dec 15 2005, 09:28 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Dec 15 2005, 05:28 PM)In...   Dec 15 2005, 09:36 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 15 2005, 01:36 PM)How ab...   Dec 15 2005, 10:55 PM
||- - TheChemist   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 16 2005, 12:55 AM)Al...   Dec 16 2005, 12:33 AM
||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (TheChemist @ Dec 16 2005, 12:33 AM)I a...   Dec 16 2005, 02:01 AM
|- - ynyralmaen   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 15 2005, 11:36 PM)How ab...   Dec 15 2005, 11:32 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (ynyralmaen @ Dec 15 2005, 11:32 PM)I r...   Dec 16 2005, 12:14 AM
- - Bill Harris   The world of Publish or Perish is a jungle and cau...   Dec 16 2005, 02:16 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I can't help thinking that the Cassini folks r...   Dec 16 2005, 03:54 AM
- - The Messenger   Two more saliant points: 1) Historically, Cassini...   Dec 16 2005, 04:14 AM
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