IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Nuking Europa, Nukes and other 'futuristic' ideas for exploring Europa
SergeyVLazarev
post Dec 5 2005, 07:45 PM
Post #1


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 5-December 05
Member No.: 597



Hi all! In my opinion, Europa explorer must be cheap and simple.

It must consist of 5 parts - 2 orbiters, 3 small and robust landers, and 3 nuclear and termonuclear bombs. I think that 10 Kt - 100 kt - 1 Mgt sequence is optimal.


First orbiter is robust, high protected from radioactivity, armed device. On high orbite over Europe
With simple and primitive long focused camera, laser-radar. It must to spectacle and record all nuclear explosion parametres.
has also a radio recever from landers.

second orbiter is orbiting low over the Europe. It must to fly over epicenter of nuke and drop lander to measure and see all.
To defend more complex second orbiter from radioactivity rays of nuclear explosion, we struck and explode a nuke in another side of Europe

Why nukes? Because it reveal all. First one, we"ll have a great quake of Europe. And can record all seismic infomation without landers.
next one. we can to melt ice and see a clear water - just hollow in the crust!!!

at 3 rd.

We dont need a special lander. If we can melt great hollow in crust - we'll have a liquid water to catch our lander! We dont need airbags, rockets. Just an robust "lander" like small susmarine!!

4 th. we ll have great cloud of water vapour and ice to take from there any chemical information.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
JRehling
post Dec 6 2005, 04:43 PM
Post #2


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2530
Joined: 20-April 05
Member No.: 321



Incidentally, in the case we would ever want to seismically thump Europa to give a lander already on the surface something to detect, the obvious way to do this would be to have the lander and impactor arrive on similar trajectories, with the lander well in advance.

A macro-strategy I have mentioned would be to have a lander in place when an impactor thumps a nearby location, creating a seismic event of known size. At the same time, an Icepick free-return sample return craft in solar orbit flies over, collecting (atomized) samples that are blasted up. The set of three craft would give us a lander, some local seismic data in decent detail, imagery from the impactor as it closed in, sample returns (heavily shocked) and any data the flyby craft could gather. Certainly, an expensive trio of craft, but an intensive set of investigations had all at once.

It occurred to me that an alternative (see above: "obvious way") would be to have the impactor follow a radically different trajectory than the flyby craft and have it go *the other way* around Jupiter (clockwise, as seen from north) while the flyby craft would go clockwise. This would add to the kinetic energy of the impact event considerably (perhaps 13 km/s), which would mean that less mass could achieve the same sized impact. However, if the goal were to have an Icepick flyby, this design would present considerable engineering constraints on the surface location. If the only goal were to have a seismic lander and an impactor, then the restrictions would be less.

If it were possible to fly a free-return flyby craft also going clockwise around Jupiter, then the constraints are lifted greatly.

That is a feasible mission for hitting Europa and studying its surface. The value of the impact, incidentally, is in delivering a known thump to the areas very near the lander. Presumably, knowing the crustal thickness/structure at a chosen location is a worthy goal -- having a general knowledge of the thickness of the crust, with less detail, is probably far less desirable. As Bob Pappalardo et al have shown, the thickness has to be fairly uniform, by and large.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ljk4-1
post Dec 6 2005, 05:59 PM
Post #3


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2454
Joined: 8-July 05
From: NGC 5907
Member No.: 430



Nuke Europa? You aren't thinking grand enough.

Drop Europa on Mars, then send a mission to analyze the debris while making a new world for humanity to live on without space suits and pressure domes.

http://www.space.com/sciencefiction/larryn...ars_000710.html

How to move Europa? A series of impacts to knock it into a gravitational swingby of Jupiter to accelerate it to Mars faster. If Europa breaks up from the impact, just attach rockets onto the pieces and direct them to Mars.

Why not just grab some already smaller NEO comets, you say? Ah, what fun is that?

Of course if we decide instead to use Europa for material to make the Dyson Shell, we can study the interior then, which will no doubt be in better shape than just smashing it into Mars.

http://www.alcyone.com/max/writing/essays/...son-shells.html

http://www.merzo.net/500000kmpp.htm


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bob Shaw
post Dec 6 2005, 09:40 PM
Post #4


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2488
Joined: 17-April 05
From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Member No.: 239



We *mustn't* nuke Europa.

The big oblong guys wouldn't like it, oh no.

All the rest of the worlds are ours, though...

Bob Shaw


--------------------
Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- SergeyVLazarev   Nuking Europa   Dec 5 2005, 07:45 PM
- - Decepticon   Bada BOOM Bada BING ehh!?   Dec 5 2005, 07:51 PM
- - dvandorn   I have to admit, my first reaction to using thermo...   Dec 5 2005, 08:05 PM
|- - SergeyVLazarev   I know, that my proposition is sounds like provoca...   Dec 5 2005, 08:19 PM
|- - helvick   Sergey, Dramatic idea but it is too complex and y...   Dec 5 2005, 09:03 PM
|- - SergeyVLazarev   QUOTE The current estimates I've seen range fr...   Dec 5 2005, 09:24 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (SergeyVLazarev @ Dec 5 2005, 10:24 PM)...   Dec 5 2005, 09:59 PM
- - SergeyVLazarev   not just for for fun, :-) but it can to help in 3 ...   Dec 5 2005, 08:06 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (SergeyVLazarev @ Dec 5 2005, 12:06 PM)...   Dec 5 2005, 08:31 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Why use a nuclear bomb, which would literally neve...   Dec 5 2005, 08:57 PM
|- - SergeyVLazarev   QUOTE The crust is far too thick for a hydrogen bo...   Dec 5 2005, 09:01 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (SergeyVLazarev @ Dec 5 2005, 01:01 PM)...   Dec 5 2005, 10:37 PM
- - mike   Nuclear bombs are complicated. Just use a giant s...   Dec 5 2005, 08:12 PM
|- - SergeyVLazarev   QUOTE (mike @ Dec 5 2005, 11:12 PM)Nuclear bo...   Dec 5 2005, 08:25 PM
|- - punkboi   QUOTE (SergeyVLazarev @ Dec 5 2005, 01:25...   Apr 7 2006, 06:09 PM
- - SergeyVLazarev   QUOTE Not really. Ice can crack but it's actua...   Dec 6 2005, 09:31 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (SergeyVLazarev @ Dec 6 2005, 10:31 AM)...   Dec 6 2005, 01:49 PM
- - SergeyVLazarev   QUOTE I don't know if by "some quake...   Dec 6 2005, 09:52 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (SergeyVLazarev @ Dec 6 2005, 10:52 AM)...   Dec 6 2005, 11:03 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   SergeyVLazarev, I like very much your enthusiasm ...   Dec 6 2005, 11:02 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   This post was duplicated/replaced in its proper co...   Dec 6 2005, 11:20 AM
- - SergeyVLazarev   QUOTE I like very much your enthusiasm about using...   Dec 6 2005, 12:37 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (SergeyVLazarev @ Dec 6 2005, 12:37 PM)...   Dec 6 2005, 01:24 PM
- - SergeyVLazarev   QUOTE BTW for the record. The Tsar Bomba was restr...   Dec 6 2005, 02:13 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (SergeyVLazarev @ Dec 6 2005, 03:13 PM)...   Dec 6 2005, 02:28 PM
|- - ljk4-1   While I would prefer not to see the human race spr...   Dec 6 2005, 02:56 PM
- - SergeyVLazarev   QUOTE The 50 Mt Soviet "Tsar Bomba" was ...   Dec 6 2005, 02:52 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (SergeyVLazarev @ Dec 6 2005, 03:52 PM)...   Dec 6 2005, 04:07 PM
- - SergeyVLazarev   QUOTE 1. The polygon WAS there to be bombed the he...   Dec 6 2005, 03:11 PM
- - JRehling   Incidentally, in the case we would ever want to se...   Dec 6 2005, 04:43 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Nuke Europa? You aren't thinking grand enough...   Dec 6 2005, 05:59 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   We *mustn't* nuke Europa. The big oblong guys...   Dec 6 2005, 09:40 PM
- - RNeuhaus   IMHO, it is not necesarry to use nuke on Europe bu...   Dec 6 2005, 10:56 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Dec 6 2005, 05:56 PM)IMHO, ...   Dec 7 2005, 01:11 PM
||- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Dec 7 2005, 08:11 AM)Whe...   Dec 7 2005, 03:36 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Dec 6 2005, 10:56 PM)IMHO, ...   Dec 7 2005, 02:43 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Dec 7 2005, 03:43 PM)I am d...   Dec 7 2005, 02:47 PM
- - mike   Face it, nuclear explosions look really neat. All...   Dec 7 2005, 12:56 AM
- - ElkGroveDan   Well I'm having a hoot reading this thread. A...   Dec 7 2005, 03:45 AM
- - edstrick   "Face it, nuclear explosions look really neat...   Dec 7 2005, 09:03 AM
|- - gndonald   QUOTE (edstrick @ Dec 7 2005, 05:03 PM)...   Dec 27 2005, 03:59 PM
- - Bill Harris   QUOTE second orbiter is orbiting low over the Euro...   Dec 7 2005, 09:38 AM
- - RNeuhaus   Sorry. Translate: Europe to Moon of Europe. Ro...   Dec 7 2005, 03:28 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Dec 7 2005, 04:28 PM)...   Dec 7 2005, 03:30 PM
- - Omega   Yeah, woo-hoo, nukes! EEEEERRRRRNNNNTTT!...   Dec 7 2005, 05:05 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Omega @ Dec 7 2005, 12:05 PM)Yeah, woo...   Dec 7 2005, 05:12 PM
- - ljk4-1   I found this quote and I just had to add it here, ...   Apr 7 2006, 04:12 PM
- - GregM   .   Apr 7 2006, 06:17 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   GregM: You'd not want to pollute the precious...   Apr 7 2006, 08:49 PM
|- - mchan   GregM That doesn't look like La Puta!   Apr 8 2006, 01:56 AM
- - edstrick   Peace on Europa, Purity of Essence.   Apr 8 2006, 10:12 AM
|- - mchan   Hmm, I wonder what the fluoride levels in Europa...   Apr 8 2006, 05:44 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   MAKE OBS, NOT WAR   Apr 8 2006, 08:28 PM
- - GravityWaves   Let me also say I find the idea of exploring Europ...   Apr 10 2006, 02:57 AM


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st September 2024 - 06:56 PM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.