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Enceladus Plume Search, Nov. 27
jmknapp
post Nov 24 2005, 04:01 PM
Post #101


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Interesting item in the science plan kernel (S16) just released to the NAIF website:

OBSERVATION_ID: S1629

SEQUENCE: S16

OBSERVATION_TITLE: Plume Search

SCIENCE_OBJECTIVE: Hope to detect/observe plumes, whether from volcanic activity or geysers.

OBS_DESCRIPTION: Point and stare.

SUBSYSTEM: ISS

PRIMARY_POINTING: ISS_NAC to Enceladus (0.0,5.0,0.0 deg. offset)

REQUEST_ID: ISS_018EN_PLUMES001_PRIME

REQUEST_TITLE: ENCELADUS Geyser/Plume Search

REQ_DESCRIPTION: 1;ENCELADUS Geyser/Plume Search 1x1xNPp -- 3 different exposures

BEGIN_TIME: 2005 NOV 27 19:00:00 UTC

END_TIME: 2005 NOV 27 20:00:00 UTC


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Phil Stooke
post Dec 16 2005, 03:54 AM
Post #102


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I can't help thinking that the Cassini folks really need to clear this up. Frankly, we're in rather poorly understood ethical ground here, because we are living through a transition in the way data are distributed.

The old idea was that NASA data were proprietory for a while to give the team who did the hard work to get the images the first chance to use them. Then it would be publicly available. That in itself was different from the more distant past, and other areas of science, where data might be proprietary for ever, basically.

But now the MER, Cassini etc. projects are releasing raw images almost as soon as they get them. The Mars Odyssey Themis team just started doing the same. Apparently MRO will as well.

(aside: NEAR said they would, but chickened out a few days before going into orbit... Calvin Hamilton and I were playing with the daily releases of images just like we are today with Cassini and MER, until it was shut off)

The catch is, the "raw data" are not really raw. Images are contrast stretched and heavily jpegged. Now, I may be wrong, but I have believed all along that when they say 'should not be used for scientific analysis until a validated copy is deposited in PDS' or words to that effect, what they mean is - it's full of jpeg artifacts and has no photometric validity, so you can't trust the pixel values. For instance, you can't calculate albedo or optical depth, and small details may be artifacts. I really don't think anybody intends that the images are totally out of bounds. In fact I think that would be unenforceable as well as just plain foolish.

But maybe we need clarification here. If the Cassini imaging team really don't want people doing anything scientific with the daily releases, they need to be specific about it on their website. If it's only the caution about pixel values they are intending, they could be more specific about that. But frankly, we live in an era where any one of us could discover a new satellite or whatever in these images, and there's nothing to stop that happening once the images are on the web. If the team really doesn't want that, they shouldn't put it out there!

Phil


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Posts in this topic
- jmknapp   Enceladus Plume Search, Nov. 27   Nov 24 2005, 04:01 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 2 2005, 08:14 AM)The qu...   Dec 2 2005, 12:19 PM
|- - jmknapp   Regarding Enceladus' density, Wikipedia quotes...   Dec 2 2005, 01:21 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 2 2005, 06:21 AM)Regardi...   Dec 3 2005, 03:09 PM
|- - ugordan   Since I haven't seen anyone else do it, here...   Dec 3 2005, 06:33 PM
||- - David   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 3 2005, 06:33 PM)I don...   Dec 3 2005, 08:58 PM
||- - mars loon   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 3 2005, 06:33 PM)Since I...   Dec 4 2005, 10:48 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Dec 3 2005, 07:09 AM)I...   Dec 5 2005, 02:49 AM
|- - tfisher   Hear, hear, JRehling. Standard physics is well te...   Dec 5 2005, 03:28 AM
- - Bill Harris   I seem to recall reading that the mass of material...   Dec 2 2005, 02:11 PM
- - volcanopele   I'll try to answer some of the questions posed...   Dec 2 2005, 06:39 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Dec 2 2005, 02:39 PM)I...   Dec 3 2005, 09:26 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 3 2005, 10:26 PM)Thanks ...   Dec 5 2005, 08:21 AM
|- - ugordan   I probably misunderstood what The Messenger was tr...   Dec 5 2005, 09:27 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 5 2005, 04:21 AM)Don...   Dec 5 2005, 12:09 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 5 2005, 01:09 PM)The orb...   Dec 5 2005, 12:22 PM
||- - jmknapp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 5 2005, 08:22 AM)EDIT: A...   Dec 5 2005, 05:21 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 5 2005, 06:21 PM)I'd...   Dec 7 2005, 12:19 PM
||- - jmknapp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 7 2005, 08:19 AM)The sit...   Dec 7 2005, 02:57 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 7 2005, 03:57 PM)But Enc...   Dec 7 2005, 03:20 PM
|- - JRehling   No one has mentioned this yet: A gas might escape ...   Dec 5 2005, 02:19 PM
|- - ugordan   Gaseous diffusion you're talking about has eve...   Dec 5 2005, 02:36 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   One thing to keep in mind is all those dark speckl...   Dec 3 2005, 11:48 AM
- - Decepticon   ^ Now thats cool! Nice job.   Dec 3 2005, 06:37 PM
- - edstrick   The Voyager estimates of masses and densities for ...   Dec 5 2005, 11:02 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (edstrick @ Dec 5 2005, 07:02 AM)But th...   Dec 5 2005, 12:20 PM
- - tasp   Would solar UV ionize the gas? Then Saturn's ...   Dec 5 2005, 02:49 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (tasp @ Dec 5 2005, 03:49 PM)Would sola...   Dec 5 2005, 02:57 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (tasp @ Dec 5 2005, 10:49 AM)Would sola...   Dec 5 2005, 03:53 PM
- - volcanopele   Press Release: NASA's Cassini Images Reveal Sp...   Dec 6 2005, 07:24 PM
|- - jmknapp   Exploring this ice sublimation theory some more......   Dec 7 2005, 11:02 AM
- - edstrick   "...the 1994 peer-reviewed Icarus paper ......   Dec 7 2005, 12:01 PM
- - dvandorn   I assume the effects of the other moons have been ...   Dec 7 2005, 09:41 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 7 2005, 10:41 PM)I assu...   Dec 7 2005, 10:05 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 7 2005, 01:41 PM)My bet...   Dec 8 2005, 08:21 PM
- - dvandorn   Well, yes -- it's all relative. The other Gal...   Dec 7 2005, 11:02 PM
|- - silylene   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 7 2005, 11:02 PM)From s...   Dec 8 2005, 02:54 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 7 2005, 07:02 PM)My poi...   Dec 8 2005, 05:44 PM
- - mike   Given that Europa is less massive than Io, it seem...   Dec 8 2005, 06:01 PM
- - nprev   Is the average density of Enceladus significantly ...   Dec 8 2005, 06:41 PM
- - deglr6328   What about K-40 abundances? All the Al-26 should h...   Dec 8 2005, 11:48 PM
- - nprev   Just out of curiosity, was there any anomalous mag...   Dec 9 2005, 12:24 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 8 2005, 08:24 PM)Just out ...   Dec 9 2005, 11:32 AM
|- - dvandorn   So, they're saying that the deflection of Satu...   Dec 9 2005, 04:10 PM
||- - jmknapp   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 9 2005, 12:10 PM)So, th...   Dec 9 2005, 05:01 PM
|- - nprev   Thanks for the magnetometer vector slide, Jim; mos...   Dec 11 2005, 10:27 AM
- - dvandorn   So.... are they excluding the possibility that the...   Dec 9 2005, 05:11 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 9 2005, 01:11 PM)So.......   Dec 9 2005, 07:29 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 9 2005, 10:11 AM)So.......   Dec 9 2005, 07:31 PM
|- - jmknapp   Here's an animation of the Christmas flyby: E...   Dec 15 2005, 02:15 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 9 2005, 07:29 PM)On anot...   Dec 10 2005, 06:36 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 10 2005, 02:36 AM)It...   Dec 10 2005, 07:29 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 10 2005, 08:29 PM)Not su...   Dec 10 2005, 08:08 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 10 2005, 04:08 PM)I...   Dec 11 2005, 01:41 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 11 2005, 02:41 AM)I prog...   Dec 11 2005, 12:27 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 11 2005, 08:27 AM)It...   Dec 11 2005, 03:17 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 11 2005, 04:17 PM)Yes, I...   Dec 11 2005, 03:27 PM
|- - hendric   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 11 2005, 09:17 AM)Yes, I...   Dec 12 2005, 05:37 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (hendric @ Dec 12 2005, 01:37 AM)Well, ...   Dec 12 2005, 12:50 PM
- - Rob Pinnegar   Just as a sidenote to the main thread: There's...   Dec 11 2005, 04:13 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Dec 11 2005, 09:13 AM)S...   Dec 11 2005, 06:01 PM
- - Jeff7   Another passing thought/wild theory: What if Iapet...   Dec 11 2005, 06:32 PM
- - nprev   I just had a thought: What if there is a "flu...   Dec 12 2005, 07:17 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Dec 11 2005, 06:32 PM)Another ...   Dec 12 2005, 08:21 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 12 2005, 07:17 AM)I just h...   Dec 12 2005, 08:24 AM
- - edstrick   A significant current along a magnetic flux-tube w...   Dec 12 2005, 09:28 AM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (edstrick @ Dec 12 2005, 02:28 AM)A sig...   Dec 12 2005, 09:00 PM
- - volcanopele   jmknapp, keep in mind that it isn't just plume...   Dec 12 2005, 09:06 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Dec 12 2005, 02:06 PM)jm...   Dec 12 2005, 09:08 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 12 2005, 05:08 PM)Aren...   Dec 13 2005, 06:44 PM
|- - jmknapp   Interesting correlation here... an Enceladus albed...   Dec 14 2005, 12:30 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 14 2005, 01:30 PM)There ...   Dec 14 2005, 03:02 PM
- - tty   Note the darker "cores" to the high albe...   Dec 14 2005, 06:12 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (tty @ Dec 14 2005, 06:12 PM)Note the d...   Dec 14 2005, 09:37 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (dilo @ Dec 14 2005, 05:37 PM)I have im...   Dec 14 2005, 11:35 PM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 15 2005, 10:35 AM)BTW, w...   Dec 15 2005, 12:02 AM
|- - ugordan   jmknapp: Seriously, you should think about writing...   Dec 15 2005, 02:49 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (ugordan @ Dec 15 2005, 06:49 AM)jmknap...   Dec 15 2005, 04:40 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 15 2005, 12:40 PM).....   Dec 15 2005, 05:34 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 15 2005, 09:34 AM)Yeah, ...   Dec 15 2005, 05:43 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 15 2005, 05:43 PM)Ye...   Dec 15 2005, 07:25 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 15 2005, 10:43 AM).....   Dec 15 2005, 10:39 PM
- - hendric   Ugordan, You should write up a paper and submit ...   Dec 14 2005, 10:27 PM
- - edstrick   nprev: "The whole reason I'm pushing the...   Dec 15 2005, 10:24 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   One prediction which is becoming fairly consistent...   Dec 15 2005, 11:24 AM
- - edstrick   One thing that seems clear is that during "he...   Dec 15 2005, 11:34 AM
- - Phil Stooke   In the specific case that was being discussed here...   Dec 15 2005, 09:28 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Dec 15 2005, 05:28 PM)In...   Dec 15 2005, 09:36 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 15 2005, 01:36 PM)How ab...   Dec 15 2005, 10:55 PM
||- - TheChemist   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 16 2005, 12:55 AM)Al...   Dec 16 2005, 12:33 AM
||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (TheChemist @ Dec 16 2005, 12:33 AM)I a...   Dec 16 2005, 02:01 AM
|- - ynyralmaen   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Dec 15 2005, 11:36 PM)How ab...   Dec 15 2005, 11:32 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (ynyralmaen @ Dec 15 2005, 11:32 PM)I r...   Dec 16 2005, 12:14 AM
- - Bill Harris   The world of Publish or Perish is a jungle and cau...   Dec 16 2005, 02:16 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I can't help thinking that the Cassini folks r...   Dec 16 2005, 03:54 AM
- - The Messenger   Two more saliant points: 1) Historically, Cassini...   Dec 16 2005, 04:14 AM
3 Pages V  < 1 2 3 >


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