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The Pioneer Anomaly
remcook
post Aug 16 2005, 04:27 PM
Post #101


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http://www.planetary.org/news/2005/pioneer_anomaly_faq.html

The planetary society may be checking it out...

QUOTE
The Planetary Society has committed to raise the funds to preserve the priceless Pioneer data from destruction.


After years of analysis, but without a final conclusion, NASA, astonishingly, gave up trying to solve the "Pioneer Anomaly" and provided no funds to analyze the data. The Pioneer data exists on a few hundred ancient 7- and 9-track magnetic tapes, which can only be read on "antique" outdated computers. The agency is going to scrap, literally demolish, the only computers able to access and process that data in the next few months!
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hal_9000
post Jan 26 2006, 07:30 PM
Post #102


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From New Scientist -> http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=dn8631

Gravity theory dispenses with dark matter

A modified theory of gravity that incorporates quantum effects can explain a trio of puzzling astronomical observations – including the wayward motion of the Pioneer spacecraft in our solar system, new studies claim.

The work appears to rule out the need to invoke dark matter or another alternative gravity theory called MOND (Modified Newtonian Dynamics). But other experts caution it has yet to pass the most crucial test – how to account for the afterglow of the big bang.

Astronomers realised in the 1970s that the gravity of visible matter alone was not enough to prevent the fast-moving stars and gas in spiral galaxies from flying out into space. They attributed the extra pull to a mysterious substance called dark matter, which is now thought to outweigh normal matter in the universe by 6 to 1.

But researchers still do not know what dark matter actually is, and some have come up with new theories of gravity to explain the galaxy observations. MOND, for example, holds that there are two forms of gravity.

Above a certain acceleration, called a0, objects move according to the conventional form of gravity, whose effects weaken as two bodies move further apart in proportion to the square of distance. But below a0, objects are controlled by another type of gravity that fades more slowly, decreasing linearly with distance.

But critics point out that MOND cannot explain the observed masses of clusters of galaxies without invoking dark matter, in the form of almost massless, known particles called neutrinos.


http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=dn8631
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Jeff7
post Jan 27 2006, 01:41 AM
Post #103


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QUOTE (hal_9000 @ Jan 26 2006, 02:30 PM)
From New Scientist -> http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=dn8631

Gravity theory dispenses with dark matter

*


Sounds like a version of the theory that general relativity needs to be applied to gravitational models, instead of simpler Newtonian physics. That theory hclaims to be able to do away with dark matter entirely and still explain both small-scale and very large-scale systems.
I just imagine the thought of doing away with dark matter is unappealing to some people, as I'm sure some have made the study of dark matter their life's work. Another way of looking at it though is that they're just inadvertently referring to "the effects of general relativity" as "dark matter".
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ljk4-1
post Jan 27 2006, 06:34 PM
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Paper: astro-ph/0601581

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:28:29 GMT (15kb)

Title: Globular Clusters as a Test for Gravity in the Weak Acceleration Regime

Authors: Riccardo Scarpa, Gianni Marconi, and Roberto Gilmozzi

Comments: Comments: To Appear in the proceeding of the "First crisis in
cosmology" conference, published in the American Institute of Physiscs'
proceedings series, Vol. 822. (includes 3 pages and 1 fig)
\\

Non-baryonic Dark Matter (DM) appears in galaxies and other cosmic structures
when and only when the acceleration of gravity, as computed considering only
baryons, goes below a well defined value a0=1.2e-8 cm/s/s. This might indicate
a breakdown of Newton's law of gravity (or inertia) below a0, an acceleration
smaller than the smallest probed in the solar system. It is therefore important
to verify whether Newton's law of gravity holds in this regime of
accelerations. In order to do this, one has to study the dynamics of objects
that do not contain significant amounts of DM and therefore should follow
Newton's prediction for whatever small accelerations. Globular clusters are
believed, even by strong supporters of DM, to contain negligible amounts of DM
and therefore are ideal for testing Newtonian dynamics in the low acceleration
limit. Here, we discuss the status of an ongoing program aimed to do this test.
Compared to other studies of globular clsuters, the novelty is that we trace
the velocity dispersion profile of globular clusters far enough from the center
to probe gravitational accelerations well below a0. In all three clusters
studied so far the velocity dispersion is found to remain constant at large
radii rather than follow the Keplerian falloff. On average, the flattening
occurs at the radius where the cluster internal acceleration of gravity is
1.8+-0.4 x 10^{-8} cm/s/s, fully consistent with MOND predictions.

\\ ( http://arXiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0601581 , 15kb)


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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ljk4-1
post Feb 1 2006, 04:02 AM
Post #105


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From The Planetary Society update:

Our strategy for the upcoming analysis of the newly available data can be summed up as follows: First, studying the early mission data may help us unambiguously determine whether the acceleration points towards the Earth, the Sun, or some other direction. Second, we hope to find out how the anomaly begins or if it was present throughout the mission. Third, we hope to be able to determine how this anomalous acceleration changed over time. Fourth, we will compare data from the two Pioneers to see if we can discern any notable differences in their behavior. Lastly, we will use the MDRs to develop a better engineering model of the spacecraft, making use, for instance, of finite element analysis methods to understand its thermal behavior.

In March 2006, for the very last time the Earth will be in a favorable position to receive Pioneer 10's radio signal. It is possible that Pioneer 10 is still able to transmit, despite the age of its electronics, the extreme coldness of deep space, and the diminishing amount of electrical power on board. The possibility that the Deep Space Network will attempt to reacquire Pioneer 10's weak signal is currently being investigated, raising the hope, however faint, that we may yet have another data point to aid in our investigation of the Pioneers' enigmatic behavior.

The rest is here:

http://planetary.org/programs/projects/pio...ate_200601.html


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post Feb 1 2006, 08:27 AM
Post #106





Guests






QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Feb 1 2006, 04:02 AM)
From The Planetary Society update:

Our strategy for the upcoming analysis of the newly available data ...

The rest is here:

http://planetary.org/programs/projects/pio...ate_200601.html
*


So this data was recovered and is now safe. Good move. Now serious work can begin.


smile.gif
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The Messenger
post Feb 1 2006, 03:54 PM
Post #107


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QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 1 2006, 01:27 AM)
So this data was recovered and is now safe. Good move. Now serious work can begin. 
smile.gif
*

It is an extremely difficult and tedious proposition. Each operation of a thruster must be accounted for, and every encounter with a third body - a moon, a planet, and a planetary system requires accurate mass and distance estimates.

It will be interesting to see if the Pioneer probe data pans out in the lower orbits like Cassini, Galileo, and Ulysses. Each of these probes experienced, (or rather, accelerations were measured), that exceed the 'Pioneer' effect by at least one magnitude, however, it is not possible to untangle the measured acceleration from the solar wind: It is in the same direction. (I think this measured anomally in Galileo and Ulysses is also in the opposite direction from the Pioneer probe acceleration - I don't have any numbers, other than a magnitude for Cassini.)

We will be lucky if we can hear from Pioneer in March, but if I remember correctly, the probe is no longer executing commands, so it may not be possible to enter the Doppler-repeater mode necessary for accurate distant measurements. (In this mode, the Pioneer probes echoed back an ultrastable signal sent from the Earth a harmonic frequency. If we are only listening to the Pioneer transmitter, there is not sufficent accuracy in the on-board timing to obtain accurate distance estimates.)
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Posts in this topic
- remcook   The Pioneer Anomaly   Aug 16 2005, 04:27 PM
- - Steffen   Sorry, but what is this anomaly about? ( I'm a...   Jan 9 2006, 07:07 AM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (Steffen @ Jan 8 2006, 11:07 PM)Sorry, ...   Jan 9 2006, 04:26 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Steffen @ Jan 9 2006, 12:07 AM)Sorry, ...   Jan 9 2006, 05:24 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Jan 9 2006, 09:24 AM)N...   Jan 9 2006, 09:29 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jan 9 2006, 09:29 PM)From a...   Jan 9 2006, 09:34 PM
- - djellison   I have an image in my head of driving around the M...   Jan 9 2006, 04:50 PM
- - Mongo   If the unmodeled acceleration is indeed, as the ev...   Jan 9 2006, 11:20 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Mongo @ Jan 9 2006, 06:20 PM)If the un...   Jan 10 2006, 02:34 AM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jan 10 2006, 02:34 AM)He...   Jan 10 2006, 05:29 AM
|- - ljk4-1   This site gives the general history and background...   Jan 10 2006, 01:55 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0503368 From: Dar...   Jan 10 2006, 04:29 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jan 10 2006, 09:29 AM)As...   Jan 10 2006, 06:54 PM
- - Jeff7   Concerning dark matter, I remembered some article ...   Jan 10 2006, 11:30 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Anomalous Acceleration of Pioneer 10 and 11: Dust ...   Jan 11 2006, 04:31 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Jan 10 2006, 11:30 PM)Concerni...   Jan 11 2006, 08:28 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Mongo @ Jan 11 2006, 08:28 PM)Will the...   Jan 11 2006, 09:03 PM
||- - Mongo   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jan 11 2006, 09:03 P...   Jan 11 2006, 09:48 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Judging by these two new news items, dark matter/e...   Jan 11 2006, 09:42 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jan 11 2006, 09:42 PM)Th...   Jan 11 2006, 10:00 PM
- - Myran   Thank you ljk4-1, that first link was interesting ...   Jan 11 2006, 07:37 PM
- - Jeff7   QUOTE I should point out, however, that MOND was a...   Jan 12 2006, 12:21 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Jan 11 2006, 05:21 PM)It sort ...   Jan 12 2006, 03:56 AM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Jan 12 2006, 03:56 AM)...   Jan 12 2006, 05:13 AM
|- - ljk4-1   Paper: astro-ph/0601247 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 2...   Jan 12 2006, 10:28 PM
|- - ljk4-1   I don't want this turning into the Dark Matter...   Jan 13 2006, 02:44 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jan 13 2006, 02:44 PM)I ...   Jan 13 2006, 03:33 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jan 13 2006, 09:44 A...   Feb 14 2006, 06:30 PM
|- - ljk4-1   General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract...   Feb 14 2006, 07:03 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   The density of galaxies was determined using the l...   Jan 12 2006, 09:35 AM
- - Mongo   So this team has observed a cloud of neutral hydro...   Jan 13 2006, 05:14 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Mongo @ Jan 13 2006, 10:14 AM)I think ...   Jan 15 2006, 07:39 AM
|- - ljk4-1   Paper (*cross-listing*): gr-qc/0601055 Date: Sat...   Jan 18 2006, 03:30 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jan 18 2006, 10:30 AM)Pa...   Jan 23 2006, 10:44 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jan 23 2006, 03:44 PM)Ti...   Jan 24 2006, 03:17 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Jan 24 2006, 03:17 PM)...   Jan 24 2006, 06:16 PM
- - djellison   Pioneer 10 or 11 basically Doug   Jan 20 2006, 03:30 PM
- - hal_9000   From New Scientist -> http://www.newscientistsp...   Jan 26 2006, 07:30 PM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (hal_9000 @ Jan 26 2006, 02:30 PM)From ...   Jan 27 2006, 01:41 AM
|- - ljk4-1   Paper: astro-ph/0601581 Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21...   Jan 27 2006, 06:34 PM
|- - ljk4-1   From The Planetary Society update: Our strategy f...   Feb 1 2006, 04:02 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Feb 1 2006, 04:02 AM)Fro...   Feb 1 2006, 08:27 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 1 2006, 01:27 AM...   Feb 1 2006, 03:54 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Feb 1 2006, 03:54 PM)W...   Feb 2 2006, 09:54 AM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 2 2006, 10:54 AM...   Feb 2 2006, 12:05 PM
||- - The Messenger   QUOTE (ugordan @ Feb 2 2006, 05:05 AM)It does...   Feb 2 2006, 05:04 PM
||- - ljk4-1   Any chance there is a foreign object like a small ...   Feb 2 2006, 05:07 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Feb 2 2006, 05:07 PM)Any...   Feb 2 2006, 06:49 PM
||- - The Messenger   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Feb 2 2006, 10:07 AM)Any...   Feb 2 2006, 07:04 PM
||- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0602161 From: R. ...   Feb 8 2006, 03:26 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Feb 1 2006, 03:54 PM)I...   Feb 2 2006, 09:56 AM
- - AlexBlackwell   I'm surprised that you haven't mentioned t...   Feb 9 2006, 12:11 AM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Feb 8 2006, 07:11 PM)I...   Feb 9 2006, 12:13 AM
|- - ljk4-1   General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract...   Feb 9 2006, 04:19 PM
|- - ljk4-1   General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract...   Feb 9 2006, 04:29 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Quotes from the article "Listening for Pionee...   Feb 10 2006, 10:28 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Feb 9 2006, 09:29 AM...   Feb 13 2006, 11:11 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0602266 From: Joa...   Feb 14 2006, 06:13 PM
- - ljk4-1   General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract...   Feb 23 2006, 07:01 PM
- - ljk4-1   General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract...   Mar 22 2006, 04:26 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Mar 22 2006, 09:26 A...   Mar 22 2006, 05:08 PM
- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0502582 From: Mic...   Mar 28 2006, 06:05 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Mar 28 2006, 11:05 A...   Mar 28 2006, 07:44 PM
- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0603790 From: Ett...   Mar 30 2006, 03:09 PM
- - ljk4-1   General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract...   Apr 4 2006, 04:26 PM
- - ljk4-1   Paper (*cross-listing*): gr-qc/0604047 Date: Mon,...   Apr 17 2006, 05:43 PM
- - edstrick   In a talk on the Pioneer Anomaly last week at the ...   May 12 2006, 10:04 AM
- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0504634 From: And...   Jun 2 2006, 03:56 PM
- - remcook   If you've got new scientist...there's an a...   Jun 2 2006, 06:22 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (remcook @ Jun 2 2006, 07:22 PM) If...   Jun 2 2006, 08:34 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jun 2 2006, 08:34 PM) ....   Jun 3 2006, 02:02 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jun 2 2006, 02:34 PM) T...   Jun 3 2006, 08:57 PM
- - dvandorn   Dark matter. It's so deliciously undefined th...   Jun 3 2006, 03:11 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   dvandorn, I quoted this explanation based on dark ...   Jun 4 2006, 07:51 AM
- - ljk4-1   Centauri Dreams' latest take on the Pioneer An...   Jun 6 2006, 03:41 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   According to the NS article, the data tapes were j...   Jun 6 2006, 02:12 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   That is great new at last that the data was saved,...   Jun 6 2006, 05:39 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jun 5 2006, 11:3...   Jun 7 2006, 01:18 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Jun 7 2006, 01:18 ...   Jun 7 2006, 05:34 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jun 6 2006, 11:3...   Jun 7 2006, 06:20 PM
- - ljk4-1   Maybe something attached themselves to the Pioneer...   Jun 6 2006, 02:26 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jun 6 2006, 02:26 PM...   Jun 6 2006, 03:39 PM
- - ljk4-1   30 Years of Pioneer Spacecraft Data Rescued: The ...   Jun 6 2006, 06:31 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Speed of the light?? What is the speed of the lig...   Jun 7 2006, 08:27 PM
- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0606197 From: Ma...   Jun 9 2006, 08:06 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Very interesting work. Now just remains to compa...   Jun 10 2006, 07:49 AM
- - ljk4-1   I wonder if the recently announced one quadrillion...   Aug 15 2006, 09:45 PM
- - ljk4-1   Test of the Pioneer anomaly with the Voyager 2 rad...   Sep 2 2006, 08:11 PM
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