Is Europa really the "highest priority" of the community?, Cleave said it was at LPSC? |
Is Europa really the "highest priority" of the community?, Cleave said it was at LPSC? |
 Mar 15 2006, 05:50 PM
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Senior Member  Group: Members Posts: 2547 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497  |
From Emily's LPSC blog: "Bob Pappalardo would not sit down until he got Cleave to acknowledge that Europa is the consensus highest priority of the planetary science community."
Cleave was obviously poorly prepared for this session, but I don't see that this acknowledgement is either meaningful or particularly accurate. If Europa were the "highest priority" of the PS community as a whole, then one might wonder why we were spending all this money on Mars. I could easily imagine that Europa is the highest priority of the outer planets community, but frankly I was surprised when Europa Orbiter appeared in the '07 budget (presumably the result of some serious lobbying on someone's part.) It was pretty obvious to me then that there would be no money for it, especially in the aftermath of JPL running the old EO project into the ground with cost overruns and engineering upscopes. (And JIMO is best forgotten.) Don't get me wrong, I would love to be involved with a Europa mission (we did what I think was a good proposal design for EO) but I don't see either the money or the political support being there in the near term. I know it's frustrating, but one has to be realistic, and it might help to avoid the aura of entitlement that I perceive is building in some parts of the community (not referring to you, Bob). Of course, I am just a lowly engineer. -------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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| Guest_BruceMoomaw_* |
Mar 17 2006, 04:33 AM
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Yeah, before we start sniffling too much about our cruel mistreatment, we really should keep in mind that the situation right now is not even remotely comparable to the genuine desert of the 1980s. We are now in the Second Golden Age of Solar System Exploration -- just a brief look at what's happened or is scheduled to happen this year alone makes that clear. We could, however, be doing even better.
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Mar 17 2006, 08:26 AM
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 Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2488 Joined: 17-April 05 From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 17 2006, 04:33 AM)  We are now in the Second Golden Age of Solar System Exploration... Damn right, Bruce. Active interplanetary spacecraft currently returning science data, not counting those in orbital storage or science spacecraft in solar orbit: 1. Messenger 2. Venus Express 3. SMART-1 4. Ulysses 5. MGS 6. Mars Odyssey 7. MRO 8. Mars Express 9. Spirit 10. Opportunity 11. New Horizons 12. Cassini 13. Voyager 1 14. Voyager 2 (15. Hayabusa) Bob Shaw -------------------- Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
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Mar 17 2006, 03:40 PM
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 Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4405 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Mar 17 2006, 08:26 AM) Damn right, Bruce. Active interplanetary spacecraft currently returning science data, not counting those in orbital storage or science spacecraft in solar orbit: 1. Messenger 2. Venus Express 3. SMART-1 4. Ulysses 5. MGS 6. Mars Odyssey 7. MRO 8. Mars Express 9. Spirit 10. Opportunity 11. New Horizons 12. Cassini 13. Voyager 1 14. Voyager 2 (15. Hayabusa) Bob Shaw Good list...you could also add Stardust and Deep Impact in parentheses, given their possible extensions. -------------------- |
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Mar 18 2006, 04:55 AM
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Member Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 26-August 05 Member No.: 476 |
QUOTE (tedstryk @ Mar 17 2006, 07:40 AM) Good list...you could also add Stardust and Deep Impact in parentheses, given their possible extensions. Rosetta is another. |
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mcaplinger Is Europa really the "highest priority" of the community? Mar 15 2006, 05:50 PM
elakdawalla That was slightly sloppy reporting on my part, and... Mar 15 2006, 07:19 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 15 2006, 07:19 P... Mar 15 2006, 07:43 PM Marz QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 15 2006, 01:19 P... Mar 15 2006, 08:04 PM
Stephen QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 15 2006, 07:19 P... Mar 16 2006, 04:51 AM djellison If you're in your 20's - you have Cassini
... Mar 15 2006, 07:29 PM paxdan QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 15 2006, 07:29 PM)... Mar 15 2006, 07:34 PM djellison QUOTE (paxdan @ Mar 15 2006, 07:34 PM) On... Mar 15 2006, 07:53 PM gpurcell QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 15 2006, 07:29 PM)... Mar 16 2006, 01:57 PM ljk4-1 QUOTE (gpurcell @ Mar 16 2006, 08:57 AM) ... Mar 16 2006, 02:27 PM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Mar 16 2006, 02:27 P... Mar 16 2006, 04:12 PM ljk4-1 QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 16 2006, 11:12... Mar 16 2006, 05:36 PM tedstryk QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Mar 16 2006, 05:36 P... Mar 16 2006, 09:15 PM elakdawalla QUOTE (gpurcell @ Mar 16 2006, 05:57 AM) ... Mar 16 2006, 02:57 PM djellison QUOTE (gpurcell @ Mar 16 2006, 01:57 PM) ... Mar 16 2006, 04:26 PM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 16 2006, 04:26 PM)... Mar 16 2006, 04:33 PM tedstryk QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 16 2006, 04:26 PM)... Mar 16 2006, 05:28 PM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (tedstryk @ Mar 16 2006, 05:28 PM) ... Mar 16 2006, 05:33 PM tedstryk QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 15 2006, 07:29 PM)... Mar 16 2006, 04:22 PM JRehling QUOTE (tedstryk @ Mar 16 2006, 08:22 AM) ... Mar 16 2006, 04:46 PM Bob Shaw QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 16 2006, 04:46 PM) ... Mar 16 2006, 04:47 PM ljk4-1 QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 16 2006, 11:46 AM) ... Mar 16 2006, 05:12 PM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 15 2006, 05:50 PM... Mar 15 2006, 07:31 PM BruceMoomaw Not only did the 2002 Decadal Survey rank Europa a... Mar 15 2006, 10:43 PM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 15 2006, 10:43 P... Mar 15 2006, 10:58 PM elakdawalla QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 15 2006, 02:43 P... Mar 15 2006, 11:22 PM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 15 2006, 11:22 P... Mar 15 2006, 11:56 PM elakdawalla QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 15 2006, 03:56... Mar 16 2006, 01:46 AM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 16 2006, 01:46 A... Mar 16 2006, 01:53 AM elakdawalla QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 15 2006, 05:53... Mar 16 2006, 01:57 AM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 16 2006, 01:57 A... Mar 16 2006, 02:05 AM elakdawalla QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 15 2006, 06:05... Mar 16 2006, 02:27 AM JRehling I'm profoundly disturbed by the notion that th... Mar 16 2006, 01:26 AM nprev Sad to see all this intramural political wrangling... Mar 16 2006, 12:45 AM BruceMoomaw QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 15 2006, 05:50 PM... Mar 16 2006, 02:14 AM dvandorn QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 15 2006, 08:14 P... Mar 18 2006, 04:50 PM BruceMoomaw QUOTE (dvandorn @ Mar 18 2006, 04:50 PM) ... Mar 19 2006, 12:54 AM BruceMoomaw Regarding Titan exploration: the PS community curr... Mar 16 2006, 03:00 AM vjkane2000 QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 15 2006, 08:00 P... Mar 16 2006, 04:58 AM remcook That's pretty depressing, especially if you wa... Mar 16 2006, 03:37 PM AlexBlackwell Andrew Lawler has an excellent article ("A Sp... Mar 16 2006, 09:31 PM Bob Shaw QUOTE (mchan @ Mar 18 2006, 04:55 AM) Ros... Mar 18 2006, 01:39 PM Tom Tamlyn Emily Lakdawalla's latest blog entry has a cha... Mar 18 2006, 04:57 PM BruceMoomaw QUOTE (Tom Tamlyn @ Mar 18 2006, 04:57 PM... Mar 19 2006, 01:22 AM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 19 2006, 01:22 A... Mar 20 2006, 05:58 PM mcaplinger QUOTE (Tom Tamlyn @ Mar 18 2006, 08:57 AM... Mar 19 2006, 09:07 PM Bob Shaw An improved version of the list:
Active interpla... Mar 18 2006, 05:35 PM ljk4-1 Though it has not been heard from since 2000, Pion... Mar 18 2006, 05:49 PM edstrick As a boy, my dad (who worked as a quality control ... Mar 17 2006, 09:52 AM centsworth_II QUOTE (edstrick @ Mar 17 2006, 04:52 AM) ... Mar 17 2006, 01:06 PM AlexBlackwell Mark Peplow has an update in his LPSC blog. Mar 18 2006, 12:47 AM nprev QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 17 2006, 04:47... Mar 18 2006, 01:40 AM elakdawalla Aw, shucks, guys...
I think only very few dieha... Mar 19 2006, 06:42 AM Mariner9 This whole situation reminds me a lot of the early... Mar 19 2006, 08:53 PM Stephen QUOTE (Mariner9 @ Mar 19 2006, 08:53 PM) ... Mar 20 2006, 10:31 AM ugordan QUOTE (Stephen @ Mar 20 2006, 11:31 AM) B... Mar 20 2006, 01:15 PM JamesFox QUOTE (Stephen @ Mar 20 2006, 05:31 AM) B... Mar 20 2006, 01:29 PM BruceMoomaw There are other problems with running small missio... Mar 20 2006, 01:42 AM mcaplinger QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 19 2006, 05:42 P... Mar 20 2006, 03:49 PM djellison I wonder what might be feasable using the Juno pla... Mar 20 2006, 04:02 PM Mariner9 Is one Europa orbiter more cost effective than 3 l... Mar 20 2006, 04:29 PM Mariner9 One last point.
Viking was scaled down from o... Mar 20 2006, 04:45 PM BruceMoomaw This is turning into an awfully interesting debate... Mar 20 2006, 06:19 PM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 06:19 P... Mar 20 2006, 09:10 PM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 20 2006, 09:10... Mar 20 2006, 10:01 PM JRehling This has been insightful.
Europa currently has la... Mar 20 2006, 10:32 PM Stephen QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 06:19 P... Mar 21 2006, 12:41 AM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (Stephen @ Mar 21 2006, 12:41 AM) W... Mar 21 2006, 12:48 AM BruceMoomaw I very much doubt it could transmit them fast enou... Mar 21 2006, 02:49 AM BruceMoomaw This thing is apparently also quite a wide-angle c... Mar 21 2006, 03:00 AM JRehling QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 07:00 P... Mar 21 2006, 03:32 AM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 21 2006, 03:32 AM) ... Mar 21 2006, 06:35 PM BruceMoomaw Looks like my whole idea was another pipe dream. ... Mar 21 2006, 03:43 AM Stephen QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 21 2006, 03:43 A... Mar 21 2006, 05:56 AM BruceMoomaw John Rehling's idea for Europa Orbiter just mi... Mar 21 2006, 03:53 AM BruceMoomaw While I'm on the subject of Europa Orbiter and... Mar 21 2006, 04:03 AM mcaplinger QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 08:03 P... Mar 21 2006, 04:07 AM JRehling QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 20 2006, 08:07 PM... Mar 21 2006, 08:01 AM mchan QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 08:03 P... Mar 21 2006, 04:34 AM BruceMoomaw Well, that's what they kept assuring all of us... Mar 21 2006, 04:34 AM mcaplinger QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 08:34 P... Mar 21 2006, 04:46 AM BruceMoomaw QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 21 2006, 04:46 AM... Mar 21 2006, 10:03 PM mcaplinger QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 21 2006, 02:03 P... Mar 22 2006, 12:21 AM dvandorn Oh, gee -- that reminds me of an sf story I once r... Mar 21 2006, 08:10 AM edstrick I last tested vaccuum tubes in the early 90's,... Mar 21 2006, 09:02 AM djellison I think JUNO might actually do harm for the 'E... Mar 21 2006, 07:44 PM AlexBlackwell QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 21 2006, 07:44 PM)... Mar 21 2006, 08:03 PM BruceMoomaw QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 21 2006, 08:03... Mar 21 2006, 10:36 PM JRehling QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 21 2006, 02:36 P... Mar 21 2006, 10:54 PM BruceMoomaw QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 21 2006, 10:54 PM) ... Mar 22 2006, 12:16 AM JamesFox What I was thinking of myself, is pretty much a Ne... Mar 21 2006, 11:17 PM nprev QUOTE (JamesFox @ Mar 21 2006, 03:17 PM) ... Mar 21 2006, 11:33 PM BruceMoomaw It would take a LOT bigger retrorocket.
By the ... Mar 22 2006, 12:06 AM JRehling QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 21 2006, 04:06 P... Mar 22 2006, 12:12 AM BruceMoomaw Regarding other ideas: two of the second-tier NF m... Mar 22 2006, 12:31 AM |
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