GIGANTIC Aviation Week story, Pentagon has been flying 2-stage orbital spaceplane throughout 1990s |
GIGANTIC Aviation Week story, Pentagon has been flying 2-stage orbital spaceplane throughout 1990s |
Guest_BruceMoomaw_* |
Mar 6 2006, 02:24 AM
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Guests |
It may even have been manned:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/chan...ws/030606p1.xml My God, what a story -- if it's even partially true. And, judging from this article, they are absolutely certain they have proof (along with proof that the thing, although it works, has recently been mothballed as not cost-effective). It's important to keep in mind, though, that this thing is NOT a workable prototype of the originally planned 2-stage winged Space Shuttle. The second stage -- the spaceplane that actually achieved orbit -- was relatively small and probably very inefficient as a cargo carrier; its advantage lay in allowing the US to get a military reconaissance (or weapons) satellite into orbit surreptitiously, with no advance warning of the launch going to other countries. Even at that, as I say, AW reports that the thing has been recently canned as not worth its (doubtless huge) black-budget expense. |
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Mar 8 2006, 07:24 AM
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Member Group: Members Posts: 688 Joined: 20-April 05 From: Sweden Member No.: 273 |
Also remember that there is a school of thought that contends that "black" programs are actually more efficient since the security restrictions mean that the number of people involved is minimized and the bureaucratic superstructure largely eliminated.
Having 30 years of experience in the aerospace business I must say it sounds plausible. Whew! Just imagine getting rid of most of those meetings, reviews and milestones.... tty |
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Mar 8 2006, 09:58 AM
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Member Group: Members Posts: 562 Joined: 29-March 05 Member No.: 221 |
Lots of info about the XB-70 What an aircraft!
Worth repeating: GregM No one would ever believe those numbers if there weren’t an actual vehicle attached to them. Not even today. For an aircraft of several generations ago it is astonishing. |
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Mar 17 2006, 02:56 AM
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Member Group: Members Posts: 291 Joined: 29-December 05 From: Ottawa, ON Member No.: 624 |
Lots of info about the XB-70 What an aircraft! Worth repeating: GregM No one would ever believe those numbers if there weren’t an actual vehicle attached to them. Not even today. For an aircraft of several generations ago it is astonishing. If you really want a good cry, read about the CF-105 Avro Arrow. |
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Mar 17 2006, 03:45 AM
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Member Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 21-February 05 Member No.: 175 |
I live 100km from the site of the former factory. A family cottage in northern Ontario is near one of the test pilot's home town. I know the story all too well. I get sick to my stomach every time I think about it. I hope the country continues to NEVER forgive Diefenbacher for it - forever. Small minded prarie hick so far out of his depth he couldn't even grasp its signifigance. If he were only alive today to see what irrepariable damage he did to his own nation's economic and technical base. |
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Mar 18 2006, 03:19 PM
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
In re the Avro Arrow:
I live 100km from the site of the former factory. A family cottage in northern Ontario is near one of the test pilot's home town. I know the story all too well. I get sick to my stomach every time I think about it. I hope the country continues to NEVER forgive Diefenbacher for it - forever. Small minded prarie hick so far out of his depth he couldn't even grasp its signifigance. If he were only alive today to see what irrepariable damage he did to his own nation's economic and technical base. Remember, though, that the cancellation of the Arrow was a veritable windfall of talent that was infused into the American manned spaceflight program. The Arrow was canceled at just the right time for NASA's Space Task Group (later to become the Manned Spacecraft Center) to absorb the engineers that Avro let go. So, NASA's first steps into space were supported by a large number of talented Canadian engineers! To all you Canadians on the forum -- thanks! -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Mar 18 2006, 09:03 PM
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Member Group: Members Posts: 291 Joined: 29-December 05 From: Ottawa, ON Member No.: 624 |
In re the Avro Arrow: Remember, though, that the cancellation of the Arrow was a veritable windfall of talent that was infused into the American manned spaceflight program. The Arrow was canceled at just the right time for NASA's Space Task Group (later to become the Manned Spacecraft Center) to absorb the engineers that Avro let go. So, NASA's first steps into space were supported by a large number of talented Canadian engineers! To all you Canadians on the forum -- thanks! -the other Doug \ Rub it in why don't you! In the 80's, I used to attend a lot of RCAF reunions with my dad's group (airmen who had been shot down behind enemy lines in WWII and evaded capture through the underground) and met Angus McClain. He was former premier of PEI and more ominously, on the cabinet that scuttled the Arrow. Though he said scrapping the existing Arrows was a rape, the fact was the aircraft was something like $12 per copy (in 1958 dollars) but the real issue was did it have a mission to fly? It was designed for high altitude intercept of supersonic bombers, but the Soviet ICBM came around, and there was no SS Soviet bomber to destroy. The aircraft wasn't designed for low altitude combat cover or even dogfighting. (The canopy would have had to be completely redesigned for dogfighting since it was primarily forward looking.) The aircraft's only practical role in the face of the new reality would have been a medium range nuclear bomber, which Canada didn't need and wouldn't deploy. It was the best aircraft in the world, even without the Iroquis engines that were just about ready, but had it been more on the scale of the Phantom II it may have stuck around. Still, scrapping the originals (except the one the Americans are hiding at Groom Lake (or was it in a barn in Saskatchewan?) according to the Dan Akroyd movie.) was, and still is, a national disgrace. There is a full scale model at CFB Trenton, I believe, that they used in the movie and the nose of one at the aviation museum in Ottawa. But the fact that such an amazing flying machine was designed and built by a country of then, 17 million, was a fantastic feat, making he Arrow's demise that much more of a tragedy. It's something that still haunts Canadians nearly a half century later. |
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