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MTO Cancelled
djellison
post Jul 21 2005, 06:30 PM
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Just listening to the MRO conference. Highlights included...

1) 5.4 Mbits is the highest MRO data rate (not the 4 I thought)
2) An extra 50-ish KG of fuel puts it's low-altitude orbit life thru to the next decade.
3) MTO HAS BEEN CANCELLED

What the HELL!

They say that MSL can still do its mission with just MRO as it's relay capacity will suffice.

But that means less science data during an MRO extension sad.gif

Seems a bit short sighted.

Doug
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Apr 21 2006, 07:02 AM
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I've finished reading MEPAG's recommendations as to the goals of the MSTO craft, and sure enough there is no mention anywhere of the goals considered so urgent by the "Mars Human Precursor" science steering group of MEPAG in its own report just last year: sirius.bu.edu/withers/ pppp/pdf/mhpssgaftpresentation.pdf .

The highest-priority goals achievable by an orbiter include measuring both high-altitude air-density fluctuations at 30-50 km, and lower-altitude winds and turbulence. This, to repeat, is extremely urgent for the immediate future -- both of these phenomena came close to wrecking MER-A, and larger and more expensive landers will be even more susceptible to the first one. We badly need to be able to monitor and predict them as much as possible. A somewhat lower-priority but still important goal for an orbiter is monitoring dust storms.

However, judging from the MHP report, it appears that the instruments already recommended for MSTO for purely scientific reasons will be adequate for such studies, if just one or two additions are made: a copy or improved version of MRO's infrared Mars Climate Sounder, and maybe a new instrument for measuring low-altitude winds. The MSTO paper seems confident that the millimeter-wave limb sounder recommended for MSTO can do a good job of measuring wind speeds all the way down to the surface. But the Science Steering Group for MRO, in its 2001 study, said that such a sounder could only measure winds above 40 km altitude, and the MHP study also says that a new instrument may need to be devised -- maybe Doppler lidar to measure the speed at which atmospheric dust is blowing. (I'm not sure if such an instrument is even under development for advanced Earth weather satellites.)

It seems likely that all larger Mars orbiters in the future will need to carry the instruments recommended by the MHP group, for constant monitoring of Mars' weather to allow last-minute revisions in the landing sequences (or even the targeting) of landers. (Upper-air density fluctuations could be monitored by an UV solar occultation instrument a lot simpler than the very high-resolution IR solar occultation spectrometer that MSTO will use to look for trace gases.)
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Posts in this topic
- djellison   MTO Cancelled   Jul 21 2005, 06:30 PM
- - um3k   RE: MTO Cancelled   Jul 21 2005, 06:35 PM
- - Redstone   Pando hinted at this. I had no idea, although I ne...   Jul 21 2005, 08:42 PM
- - djellison   Quite simply - for MSL to have any hope in hell of...   Jul 21 2005, 08:58 PM
- - vjkane2000   Griffin is remaking the priorities in the science ...   Jul 21 2005, 09:16 PM
- - lyford   I think there goes my crazy dream of a fleet of Tu...   Jul 21 2005, 11:34 PM
|- - MiniTES   I'm a big supporter of Griffin ("rather d...   Jul 22 2005, 12:16 AM
- - Analyst   There goes the James Cameron mars movie. But: - ...   Jul 22 2005, 12:05 PM
- - djellison   MTO, because of being in a higher orbit - would ha...   Jul 22 2005, 12:29 PM
- - Analyst   I know, but hey, MPF transmitted 2 GBits in the wh...   Jul 22 2005, 12:50 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Analyst @ Jul 22 2005, 12:50 PM)Hey, w...   Jul 22 2005, 12:53 PM
- - Analyst   Contrary to popular mythology I don't see the ...   Jul 22 2005, 01:49 PM
- - Cugel   My two points of concern here: 1. As MSL does not...   Jul 22 2005, 03:28 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I've just rechecked my notes from the January ...   Jul 22 2005, 05:36 PM
|- - MiniTES   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 22 2005, 05:36 PM)I...   Jul 22 2005, 06:27 PM
- - Analyst   Now the "fun" ends. From www.nasawatch.c...   Jul 22 2005, 07:05 PM
- - djellison   Relay capacity guestimates... Odyssey : 0.1 - 0.4...   Jul 22 2005, 07:38 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   The central loss from the absence of MTO is that i...   Jul 22 2005, 11:42 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Bruce: I have the sense that Mike Griffin's h...   Jul 23 2005, 12:49 AM
|- - MiniTES   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 22 2005, 11:42 PM).....   Jul 24 2005, 10:27 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yeah, but at what cost compared to the serious sci...   Jul 25 2005, 01:10 AM
|- - MiniTES   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 25 2005, 01:10 AM)Ye...   Jul 25 2005, 11:01 AM
|- - MiniTES   But I do agree with you that these cuts are a wast...   Jul 25 2005, 01:46 PM
|- - tty   QUOTE (MiniTES @ Jul 25 2005, 03:46 PM)The co...   Jul 25 2005, 06:36 PM
- - dvandorn   I disagree with the postulate that the ISS is enti...   Jul 25 2005, 08:00 PM
|- - Mark6   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jul 25 2005, 08:00 PM)But, ...   Jul 25 2005, 08:56 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Mark6 @ Jul 25 2005, 08:56 PM)Sorry, b...   Jul 25 2005, 10:53 PM
- - dvandorn   Oh, and for mini-TES' question -- Bruce was re...   Jul 25 2005, 08:12 PM
|- - MiniTES   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jul 25 2005, 08:12 PM)Oh, a...   Jul 26 2005, 12:09 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   In reply: (1) I find that $55 billion price...   Jul 26 2005, 02:33 AM
|- - dvandorn   I'm in complete agreement with the IAA. I thi...   Jul 26 2005, 06:34 AM
|- - slinted   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 25 2005, 06:33 PM)Gi...   Jul 26 2005, 09:41 AM
|- - Roly   Does anyone know if there are plans to optimize wh...   Aug 13 2005, 03:52 AM
- - dvandorn   Reply to Bruce: The technologies required for the...   Jul 26 2005, 06:55 AM
- - dvandorn   All I can say about the need for a fatter data pip...   Aug 13 2005, 07:35 AM
- - SigurRosFan   MRO cancelled - okay. But was is this? MSTO (Mars ...   Apr 20 2006, 10:17 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   MSTO's existence was another thing first revea...   Apr 20 2006, 10:57 AM
- - Analyst   This sounds like a solid plan. But they need more ...   Apr 20 2006, 11:37 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   The nature of the 2016 mission is now hotly debate...   Apr 20 2006, 12:15 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   A quick scan of the MSTO science definition report...   Apr 20 2006, 12:33 PM
- - Spacely   Bruce, it seems like when we finally do get around...   Apr 20 2006, 04:18 PM
- - Mariner9   I'm not Bruce, but to throw in my ten cents it...   Apr 20 2006, 05:12 PM
- - Spacely   And let's not forget how naive those '05-0...   Apr 20 2006, 06:58 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I feel the same way -- sample-return missions will...   Apr 20 2006, 08:26 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I've finished reading MEPAG's recommendati...   Apr 21 2006, 07:02 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   I've been looking more into how good various t...   Apr 24 2006, 02:15 AM
- - nprev   Sorry to ressurrect a truly ancient thread, but ca...   Feb 13 2007, 04:26 AM
- - monitorlizard   nprev, this is an abstract in its entirety from SP...   Feb 28 2007, 07:06 PM
- - nprev   Exactly what I needed...thanks, Monitor!   Mar 1 2007, 04:33 AM


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