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Russia Plans "long-lived" Venus Probe
Waspie_Dwarf
post Nov 7 2005, 07:19 PM
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Russia Plans "Long-Lived" Venus Probe


The press secretary of the Russian Federal Space Agency, Vyacheslav Davidenko, has said that Russia will design and launch a long-living probe to Venus by 2015. The probe is known as Venera-D.

Davidenko told a news briefing that within the federal Space budget for 2006-2015 was envisaged, “work to develop a principally new spacecraft, Venera D, intended for detailed studies of the atmosphere and surface of Venus”.

“It is expected that the craft with a long, more than one month period of active existence will land on the surface of the planet that is the nearest to the earth. Nobody has done such thing on Venus so far.”

Source: ITAR-TASS


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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post May 13 2006, 10:58 AM
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And here it is. One of the primary investigators on SAGE was Bruce fegley of Washington university (located, oddly, in St. Louis); and in 2003 he put a Powerpoint rpesentation on the Web regarding the desirable goals for such a Venus lander (keeping in mind that his own Venusian specialty is chemical interactions between the surface and atmosphere). That presentation no longer seems to be there -- but, once again, I recorded it at the time. It was nicely detailed, but here are what seem to me to be his most important spefications:

(1) The key atmspheric measurements include temperature and pressure profiles from the surface to the clouds. (Oddly, he says that not only did the Pioneer probes fail to get data below 12 km, but so, for some reason, did Vega 1 -- and since the 1970s Veneras were of questionable accuracy, Vega 2 sems to have provided us with our only good low-altitude T and P profile so far.) They also include composition, using a GCMS -- in order of priority:
Overall abundance of H2O, CO, SO2, N2 and the noble gases
Vertical profiles of the first three
COS, H2S, HCl and HF
Isotopic ratios for H, C, N, O, S and the noble gases
H2, H2SO4
CO2 abundance below the clouds

(2) The top priority surface analysis site should be a big representative region for average Venusian chemistry and mineralogy. Second priority is an anomalous region -- either a tessera ("some propose these are metamorphic"), or one of the high-altitude high radar-reflectivity regions. Both primary rocks and phases that have reacted with the atmosphere are needed -- preferably a depth profile using a drill core, and including if possible an examination of the atmospheric gases at different depths in it (here his own biases show).

The top-priority measurements are element and mineralogical composition together (elements by themselves are not worthwhile). The best mineralogical instrument is an X-ray diffractometer; element analyses should include elements from C through Na, which X-ray and gamma-ray spectrometry can't detect. Then, in order of priority, come:
Color imaging of the surface and the drill core
Fe oxidation state (he recommends Mossbauer for this)
Visible/IR reflection spectra
Oxygen fugacity in the surface (using a ceramic O2 sensor)

SAGE's payload, as indicated by the JPL description, doesn't include all Fegley's desired measurements, but it would include most of them.
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Guest_DonPMitchell_*
post May 13 2006, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ May 13 2006, 03:58 AM) *
Oddly, he says that not only did the Pioneer probes fail to get data below 12 km, but so, for some reason, did Vega 1 -- and since the 1970s Veneras were of questionable accuracy, Vega 2 sems to have provided us with our only good low-altitude T and P profile so far


Why does he think Venera-9 - 14 had questionable readings? Their platinum-wire thermometers are not as good as our platinum-wire thermometers?
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- Waspie_Dwarf   Russia Plans "long-lived" Venus Probe   Nov 7 2005, 07:19 PM
- - Toma B   Should be good... Maybe little wheels on that lan...   Nov 7 2005, 07:27 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Nov 7 2005, 07:19 PM)Th...   Nov 7 2005, 08:08 PM
|- - Tom Ames   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Nov 7 2005, 03:08 PM)The...   Nov 8 2005, 03:10 AM
- - Waspie_Dwarf   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Nov 7 2005, 08:08 PM)The...   Nov 7 2005, 08:15 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Nov 7 2005, 08:15 PM)An...   Nov 8 2005, 01:17 AM
|- - mchan   QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Nov 7 2005, 01:15 PM)An...   Nov 8 2005, 03:59 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (mchan @ Nov 7 2005, 09:59 PM)Er, it ma...   Nov 8 2005, 07:15 AM
- - JRehling   QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Nov 7 2005, 12:19 PM)“I...   Nov 7 2005, 08:24 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 7 2005, 03:24 PM)No wor...   Nov 8 2005, 04:22 PM
|- - elakdawalla   I've always been curious, what domestic uses c...   Nov 8 2005, 04:40 PM
||- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Nov 8 2005, 08:40 AM)I...   Nov 8 2005, 05:01 PM
||- - The Messenger   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Nov 8 2005, 09:40 AM)I...   Nov 8 2005, 05:20 PM
||- - Bob Shaw   Emily: The trouble with spin-off applications fro...   Nov 9 2005, 01:07 PM
||- - Bricktop   ESA's page on Venera-D http://www.esa.int/SPEC...   Nov 9 2005, 01:21 PM
||- - hendric   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Nov 9 2005, 07:07 AM)Emily:...   Nov 10 2005, 04:40 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 8 2005, 09:22 AM)Whi...   Nov 8 2005, 04:54 PM
||- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 8 2005, 09:54 AM)That i...   Nov 8 2005, 05:43 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 8 2005, 11:22 AM)Whi...   Nov 8 2005, 07:20 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Nov 8 2005, 07:20 PM)If it ...   Nov 8 2005, 07:44 PM
||- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (David @ Nov 8 2005, 02:44 PM)It seems ...   Nov 8 2005, 08:11 PM
||- - tty   QUOTE (David @ Nov 8 2005, 09:44 PM)It seems ...   Nov 8 2005, 09:14 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Nov 8 2005, 12:20 PM)As we ...   Nov 8 2005, 09:29 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 8 2005, 04:29 PM)Venus...   Nov 8 2005, 09:37 PM
||- - helvick   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 8 2005, 10:37 PM)The...   Nov 8 2005, 10:17 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 8 2005, 04:29 PM)Venus...   Nov 9 2005, 01:36 PM
- - Waspie_Dwarf   Russian spy satellites have employed minature nucl...   Nov 7 2005, 08:35 PM
|- - tedstryk   I know there were some RTG's that were sent to...   Nov 7 2005, 10:25 PM
- - tty   The Soviet Union certainly developed RTG's whi...   Nov 7 2005, 08:57 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (tty @ Nov 7 2005, 03:57 PM)The Soviet ...   Nov 7 2005, 08:59 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   On the way back from the COMPLEX meeting, I attend...   Nov 8 2005, 01:54 AM
- - Waspie_Dwarf   Whilst you are no doubt correct about how difficul...   Nov 8 2005, 02:03 AM
- - ilbasso   Have the Russians attempted any interplanetary pro...   Nov 8 2005, 04:14 AM
- - Myran   The name (that really should need to be something ...   Nov 8 2005, 05:28 AM
- - Bill Harris   QUOTE No word on the thermal strategy: Build a spa...   Nov 8 2005, 09:55 AM
|- - tedstryk   They do have Phobos-Grunt under development for a ...   Nov 8 2005, 10:40 AM
- - Waspie_Dwarf   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Nov 8 2005, 09:55 AM)I...   Nov 8 2005, 01:30 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Nov 8 2005, 08:30 AM)Su...   Nov 8 2005, 02:41 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 8 2005, 02:41 PM)Car...   Nov 8 2005, 07:12 PM
- - Adam   I have already seen this, at the ESA site i believ...   Nov 8 2005, 02:34 PM
|- - um3k   QUOTE (Adam @ Nov 8 2005, 09:34 AM)I have alr...   Nov 8 2005, 03:44 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Originally Gordon Chin's Discovery proposal fo...   Nov 8 2005, 02:53 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Meanwhile, Uranus don't seem to get no respect...   Nov 8 2005, 02:56 PM
|- - elakdawalla   When I had to teach a fifth grade classroom about ...   Nov 8 2005, 03:52 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Nov 8 2005, 10:52 AM)Whe...   Nov 8 2005, 04:19 PM
|- - tedstryk   Yes, NASA announcing that it wants to probe Uranus...   Nov 8 2005, 04:22 PM
- - Adam   QUOTE (um3k @ Nov 8 2005, 04:44 PM)I've s...   Nov 8 2005, 04:18 PM
- - TheChemist   Well, that's the price we pay for using a gree...   Nov 8 2005, 04:34 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I remember Malin's "nuclear refrigerator...   Nov 8 2005, 05:59 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Bruce: Regarding the racket from the nuclear refr...   Nov 9 2005, 01:05 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   THE TECHNOLOGICAL CHALLENGE OF A LONG LIVED VENUSI...   Nov 8 2005, 06:45 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   God, what a flock of questions! Let me answer...   Nov 8 2005, 10:48 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 8 2005, 10:48 PM)God...   Nov 9 2005, 08:10 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 8 2005, 10:48 PM)God...   Nov 9 2005, 08:18 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 8 2005, 10:48 PM)God...   Nov 9 2005, 10:16 AM
- - Waspie_Dwarf   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 8 2005, 09:37 PM)The...   Nov 9 2005, 12:23 AM
|- - Rakhir   QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Nov 9 2005, 02:23 AM)I ...   Nov 9 2005, 04:05 AM
- - Jeff7   I'm not quite sure of something here, probably...   Nov 9 2005, 02:05 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Nov 8 2005, 07:05 PM)I'm n...   Nov 9 2005, 04:21 AM
||- - Jeff7   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 8 2005, 11:21 PM)Becaus...   Nov 10 2005, 05:21 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Nov 9 2005, 02:05 AM)I'm n...   Nov 9 2005, 07:57 AM
- - Waspie_Dwarf   QUOTE For Venera-9 and -10, main parachutes were j...   Nov 9 2005, 04:29 AM
- - abalone   QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Nov 8 2005, 06:19 AM)Ru...   Nov 9 2005, 06:15 AM
- - edstrick   You can't do solar panels on the surface of Ve...   Nov 9 2005, 07:08 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   A windmill may make sense for the VGA because that...   Nov 9 2005, 09:15 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Aha! Here's a nice detailed article by Ge...   Nov 9 2005, 09:22 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 9 2005, 09:22 AM)Aha...   Nov 9 2005, 09:42 AM
- - edstrick   Bruce said: "...Aha! Here's a nice d...   Nov 9 2005, 10:29 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Nov 9 2005, 10:29 AM)Bruce ...   Nov 9 2005, 10:35 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Nov 9 2005, 01:05 PM)Bruce:...   Nov 10 2005, 12:40 AM
- - edstrick   Just to throw a curve-ball into the discussion, I ...   Nov 10 2005, 09:34 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Nov 10 2005, 09:34 AM)We ha...   Nov 10 2005, 07:31 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 10 2005, 07:31 P...   Nov 11 2005, 02:24 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 11 2005, 02:24 AM)Well,...   Nov 11 2005, 07:20 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   There will be some big news shortly on that subjec...   Nov 10 2005, 12:54 PM
|- - tedstryk   I wish that Russia would send another Venera lande...   Nov 10 2005, 05:01 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 10 2005, 12:01 PM)I wis...   Nov 10 2005, 05:11 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 10 2005, 05:11 PM)In...   Nov 10 2005, 05:18 PM
||- - JRehling   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 10 2005, 10:18 AM)That ...   Nov 10 2005, 05:43 PM
||- - tedstryk   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 10 2005, 05:43 PM)If th...   Nov 10 2005, 06:22 PM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 10 2005, 10:11 A...   May 8 2006, 04:56 AM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 8 2006, 04:56 A...   May 8 2006, 05:20 AM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ May 7 2006, 10:20 PM...   May 8 2006, 06:46 AM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 8 2006, 06:46 A...   May 8 2006, 07:17 AM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 8 2006, 02:46 A...   May 8 2006, 01:13 PM
- - ljk4-1   VENERA D - future Russian mission (5 to 30 days on...   May 4 2006, 05:26 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Good description of the original Russian/American ...   May 12 2006, 08:57 AM
|- - DonPMitchell   Maybe it was a politcial mistake for Brown Univers...   May 12 2006, 04:42 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Bruce: Some grabs from the .pdf you pointed us at...   May 12 2006, 06:20 PM
||- - DonPMitchell   It's a clever mission plan. The Venera spacec...   May 12 2006, 08:22 PM
||- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 12 2006, 04:22 ...   May 12 2006, 08:29 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ May 12 2006, 01:57 A...   May 15 2006, 12:59 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Actually, the first and second "SAGEs" n...   May 12 2006, 11:05 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   And here it is. One of the primary investigators ...   May 13 2006, 10:58 AM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ May 13 2006, 03:58 A...   May 13 2006, 12:41 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ May 13 2006, 10:58 A...   May 14 2006, 08:03 AM
- - Myran   QUOTE BruceMoomaw mentioned: ......the high-altitu...   May 13 2006, 12:14 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Damned if I know, except that his slide says that ...   May 13 2006, 10:41 PM
- - edstrick   Accurate measurements of stability and convective ...   May 14 2006, 07:20 AM
- - DonPMitchell   It looks like the accuracy of the Venera-9 to 13 a...   May 14 2006, 02:24 PM
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