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Unaffordable and Unsustainable, NASA’s failing Earth-to-orbit Transportation Strategy
Guest_DonPMitchell_*
post Jul 25 2006, 04:11 AM
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The Space Frontier Foundation has gotten a lot of attention from the mainstream press with their latest Whitepaper.

They advocate a more extensive support fo free enterprise and entrepreneurship in the American space program. They suggest that NASA should no longer be allowed to develop and own new launch vehicles, and that CEV and CLV development should be cancelled. They also advise that NASA rely on Altas 5 and Delta 4 rockets, and transfer more funding to the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services program.

I cannot find the actual white paper on the SFF website. I don't know if SFF is particularly professional (certainly their gaudy website doesn't look it), but I have to agree with some of their points.
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Guest_DonPMitchell_*
post Jul 26 2006, 05:43 PM
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Well, I did not so much intend to compare socialism to capitalism. I think the issue is government control vs. private enterprise. From my own experiences in industry, I don't believe private enterprise is simply people thinking about profit, nor do I believe that burocrats and intellectuals are totally selfless in their motivations.

Messenger brought up the issue of future engineers to maintain a "world class rocket program". That's another thing that concerns many people. James Oberg has asserted that Russia is in trouble because its rocket expertise consists mostly of old men, with no young people taking their place. Oberg is something of a Russian-basher, so I don't know if his assertion is true. Similar concerns are expressed about American engineering, although a recent Duke University Study suggests that when you count real engineers, the US is not falling behind.

Right now, I believe the USA still leads in rocket technology. Initially, a lot of the R&D behind that was from Von Braun's group, but today the research for new rockets is being done privately by Boeing and Lockheed and a few other companies, not by NASA as such. And I think the Atlas V and Delta IV are excellent results. Russia still has major expertise, especially in rocket engine design (the Atlas V engines are Russian!), but I'd like to see Russia proceed with new vehicle designs like the Angora. A lot of new rocket programs like China's Long March series are not very innovative (non-cryogenic fuel, gas-generator-cycle engines).

As I said, I think people go where the action is, and this is the "computer age", not the "space age". I personally left the space program to do computer research, when I was a graduate student. Perhaps a private space station that was open to the public could fire the imagination of some talented young people and encourage more to consider aerospace engineering as a career. But for that to be a good career path for young people, space exploration has to be a growing concern!
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David
post Jul 26 2006, 05:53 PM
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There's no question but that corporations have had and will continue to have a major role in American space-related industries. Whether they are ready, willing, or able to pursue initiatives in space exploration, manned and unmanned, where there are scientific objectives but no profit, is another question -- and one which I don't see being answered in the affirmative. Moreover, I don't see how cutting NASA out of an area where private firms have shown little willingness to take an initiative does anything but kill the United States' role in space exploration altogether.
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Posts in this topic
- DonPMitchell   Unaffordable and Unsustainable   Jul 25 2006, 04:11 AM
- - The Messenger   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 24 2006, 10:11 ...   Jul 25 2006, 01:54 PM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Jul 25 2006, 09:54...   Jul 26 2006, 12:48 AM
- - David   I have an uncomfortable feeling that the questions...   Jul 25 2006, 02:09 PM
|- - ugordan   This topic definitely sounds like it belongs more ...   Jul 25 2006, 02:25 PM
|- - Bjorn Jonsson   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jul 25 2006, 02:25 PM) T...   Jul 25 2006, 03:35 PM
- - DonPMitchell   As policy, there is good reason to want private en...   Jul 25 2006, 10:01 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 25 2006, 10:01 ...   Jul 26 2006, 12:13 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (David @ Jul 25 2006, 06:13 PM) I f...   Jul 26 2006, 02:23 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   This discution about comparing the merits of free ...   Jul 26 2006, 07:11 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jul 26 2006, 08...   Jul 26 2006, 08:47 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Thanks you ugordan for your informations. Actualy...   Jul 26 2006, 09:18 AM
- - DonPMitchell   Increasing the role of private industry in space i...   Jul 26 2006, 09:25 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   DonPMitchell, I basically don't agree with you...   Jul 26 2006, 11:04 AM
- - DonPMitchell   Well, I did not so much intend to compare socialis...   Jul 26 2006, 05:43 PM
|- - David   There's no question but that corporations have...   Jul 26 2006, 05:53 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 26 2006, 05:43 ...   Jul 28 2006, 06:17 AM
- - DonPMitchell   I think it depends on what you call space explorat...   Jul 26 2006, 09:03 PM
- - DonPMitchell   I've been trying to find a link to the actual ...   Jul 27 2006, 07:40 AM
- - Mariner9   A very interesting white paper. I don't agre...   Jul 27 2006, 11:23 PM
- - The Messenger   There has been a lot of atropy in the the US rocke...   Jul 28 2006, 04:27 AM
- - dvandorn   I think it's important to note that private in...   Jul 28 2006, 06:51 AM
|- - mchan   In the launcher industry, governments bring money ...   Jul 28 2006, 10:12 AM
- - DonPMitchell   There certainly is a lot of government involvement...   Jul 28 2006, 10:37 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 28 2006, 10:37 ...   Jul 31 2006, 11:04 AM
|- - Marz   QUOTE (Stephen @ Jul 31 2006, 06:04 AM) (...   Jul 31 2006, 02:42 PM
|- - DonPMitchell   If space is limited to academic science experiment...   Jul 31 2006, 06:42 PM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 31 2006, 02:42 ...   Aug 1 2006, 11:52 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 31 2006, 06:42 ...   Aug 2 2006, 11:17 AM
- - Mariner9   I've felt for years that if you really want to...   Jul 29 2006, 03:31 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Mariner9 @ Jul 29 2006, 03:31 PM) ...   Jul 29 2006, 03:42 PM
- - Analyst   Criticising the ISS and the Shuttle as being borin...   Aug 1 2006, 11:26 AM
- - dvandorn   And, in defense of ISS, I will just say that ISS i...   Aug 1 2006, 08:32 PM
- - djellison   I think there could have been better, cheaper, fas...   Aug 1 2006, 08:39 PM
- - dvandorn   Oh, I don't disagree, Doug. There probably ar...   Aug 1 2006, 08:51 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 1 2006, 09:51 PM) H...   Aug 1 2006, 09:47 PM
- - DonPMitchell   I certainly don't want to see NASA stop fundin...   Aug 1 2006, 10:27 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 1 2006, 10:27 P...   Aug 2 2006, 08:49 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Stephen @ Aug 2 2006, 02:49 AM) I ...   Aug 2 2006, 02:22 PM
- - DonPMitchell   Precisely, the commercial satellite business is pr...   Aug 2 2006, 05:27 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 2 2006, 05:27 P...   Aug 3 2006, 12:20 AM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (David @ Aug 2 2006, 05:20 PM) I ca...   Aug 3 2006, 12:59 AM
- - Analyst   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 2 2006, 05:27 P...   Aug 2 2006, 06:50 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (Analyst @ Aug 2 2006, 01:50 PM) If...   Aug 2 2006, 07:00 PM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (Analyst @ Aug 2 2006, 11:50 AM) If...   Aug 3 2006, 03:19 AM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (Analyst @ Aug 2 2006, 02:50 PM) If...   Aug 3 2006, 04:34 AM
- - remcook   then why do the russians launch polar satellites f...   Aug 2 2006, 07:38 PM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (remcook @ Aug 2 2006, 03:38 PM) th...   Aug 3 2006, 04:26 AM
- - djellison   Trajectory purposes I would have thought - same re...   Aug 2 2006, 08:29 PM
- - remcook   I believe the vandenberg launch option is because ...   Aug 2 2006, 09:16 PM
- - DonPMitchell   The most efficient orbital launch is made eastward...   Aug 2 2006, 10:30 PM
- - Analyst   Interesting, Jim. I should be more careful with ab...   Aug 3 2006, 06:30 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Analyst @ Aug 3 2006, 12:30 AM) In...   Aug 3 2006, 08:51 PM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (Analyst @ Aug 3 2006, 02:30 AM) In...   Aug 4 2006, 12:50 AM
- - Analyst   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Aug 3 2006, 08:51 ...   Aug 4 2006, 07:35 AM
- - Jim from NSF.com   By default, a launch going due east (90 degrees az...   Aug 4 2006, 01:00 PM
- - DonPMitchell   The perigee of the orbit will be approximately whe...   Aug 4 2006, 07:27 PM
- - tty   The ideal launch site should be: 1. On the Equato...   Aug 4 2006, 07:51 PM
- - DonPMitchell   Some of these effects are more important than othe...   Aug 5 2006, 09:06 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 5 2006, 10:06 A...   Aug 5 2006, 01:56 PM
|- - tty   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 5 2006, 11:06 A...   Aug 5 2006, 06:57 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (tty @ Aug 5 2006, 01:57 PM) I was ...   Aug 5 2006, 07:56 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 5 2006, 07:56 PM) T...   Aug 5 2006, 08:57 PM
- - DonPMitchell   Ah, right you are tty, lower air pressure is an ad...   Aug 5 2006, 08:41 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 5 2006, 03:41 P...   Aug 6 2006, 12:02 PM
- - The Messenger   "Toxic" fuels do not necessarily yield h...   Aug 6 2006, 04:21 PM
- - DonPMitchell   UDMH is both toxic and carcinogenic. It's ...   Aug 7 2006, 03:53 AM
- - DonPMitchell   Looks like NASA has decided to put some serious mo...   Aug 19 2006, 08:30 PM
- - Littlebit   http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.nl.html?pid=23...   Feb 5 2007, 07:22 PM
- - peter59   NASA has decided to end its use of the Boeing Delt...   Sep 27 2007, 05:09 PM
- - djellison   http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showt...   Sep 27 2007, 05:21 PM


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