Fight for Pluto !, A Campaign to Reverse the Unjust Demotion |
Fight for Pluto !, A Campaign to Reverse the Unjust Demotion |
Aug 24 2006, 08:24 PM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 19-March 05 From: Princeton, NJ, USA Member No.: 212 |
Dear Friends,
Today I am extremely dissapointed that the Pluto Demoters have triumphed. I respect their opinion, but disagree with it. I strongly agree with Alan Stern's statement calling it "absurd" that only 424 astronomers were allowed to vote, out of some 10,000 professional astronomers around the globe. This tiny group is clearly not at all representative by mathematics alone. I believe we should formulate a plan to overturn this unjust decision and return Pluto to full planetary status, and as the first member of a third catagory of planets, Xena being number two. Thus a total of 10 Planets in our Solar System Please respond if you agree that Pluto should be restored as a planet. ken Ken Kremer Amateur Astronomers Association of Princeton Program Chairman |
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Sep 26 2006, 09:25 PM
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#2
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 26-September 06 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 1183 |
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I strongly object to the demotion of Pluto by a small group of scientists voting based on very narrow criteria. There is no way I will accept this decision. If children I know are taught in school that there are eight planets in our solar system, I will correct this misinformation and teach them that there are nine (at least). This is revisionist history that would make George Orwell proud. Pluto orbits the sun and has three moons. The requirement that its orbit be on the same plane as Earth's is just one more example of human arrogance. In the long run, I believe this decision will be overturned. In the meantime, please count me in as an advocate who will do whatever I can to restore Pluto's rightful place in our solar system. You can also view my blog posting "In Defense of Pluto" at http://laurele.livejournal.com |
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Sep 26 2006, 09:36 PM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3652 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
to restore Pluto's rightful place in our solar system. It's not like anyone actually kicked Pluto out of our solar system or anything. Why don't you stand in defense of Ceres being reinstated as a planet, too? The decision to demote it could have also been considered "revisionist history". Why stop at Pluto? Why is it so special? -------------------- |
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Sep 26 2006, 09:53 PM
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#4
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 26-September 06 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 1183 |
It's not like anyone actually kicked Pluto out of our solar system or anything. Why don't you stand in defense of Ceres being reinstated as a planet, too? The decision to demote it could have also been considered "revisionist history". Why stop at Pluto? Why is it so special? I have no problem with Ceres being reinstated as a planet. In fact, I think the 12-planet scheme originally considered by the IAU is much more appropriate. |
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Sep 26 2006, 09:55 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3652 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
I have no problem with Ceres being reinstated as a planet. In fact, I think the 12-planet scheme originally considered by the IAU is much more appropriate. Then why aren't you pushing for that, instead of demanding that only Pluto be reinstated? -------------------- |
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Sep 27 2006, 04:12 AM
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#6
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 26-September 06 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 1183 |
Then why aren't you pushing for that, instead of demanding that only Pluto be reinstated? First, I would like to see this travesty of a decision by the IAU overturned, as I see it as a giant step backwards. I do and will advocate for the 12-planet alternative. Dr. Alan Stern is convening a conference of over 1,000 astronomers next summer to address this issue, and I'm pretty certain this scheme will be considered. |
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Sep 27 2006, 06:58 AM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3652 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
The way I see it you're pushing for a petition to reinstate Pluto, not demanding the IAU to make a better definition. If the petition was for a better, less sloppy definiton of a planet, I'd gladly sign it. This merely looks like someone god pi**ed about their favourite pet planet not being a planet anymore. How's that for "human arrogance"?
IMO, the time of a nine-planet solar system has passed. Either we have 8, hack it down even more to 4 or we have 12 or more. Pushing for Pluto only is wrong and IMO shows you're not interested as much in a good planet definition, but are interested in Pluto only. -------------------- |
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Sep 27 2006, 03:47 PM
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#8
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 26-September 06 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 1183 |
I did not create this petition, and I am not pushing for Pluto only. If I had, I would have put in language urging the overturning of the IAU definition of a planet adopted last month and the adoption of a better definition that includes Pluto, Eris, and possibly Ceres and Charon as well. The point here is that the process by which the decision was adopted was flawed as well as arbitrary and capricious. This, not just the Pluto issue, is what Dr. Alan Stern seeks to correct with his conference next year.
It's not a matter of reinstating Pluto vs. adopting a better definition of the word planet. In no way are these goals mutually exclusive. And I am not wedded to having a nine-planet solar system. In fact, I have no problem with us having 50 or 100 planets or more, but the IAU members who voted on this decision did have a problem with that. However, I do feel strongly that the definition of the word planet ultimately adopted should include Pluto. A round object that orbits the sun, has an atmosphere and three moons is a planet. There is no reason it cannot be both a planet and a Kuiper Belt Object. But it is different from other Kuiper Belt objects which are mostly much smaller and do not have any moons. |
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Guest_Kevin Heider_* |
Sep 27 2006, 07:09 PM
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#9
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Guests |
I am not pushing for Pluto only. I would have put in language urging the overturning of the IAU definition of a planet adopted last month and the adoption of a better definition that includes Pluto, Eris, and possibly Ceres and Charon as well. If Pluto is a Planet because it is spherical, then Ceres deserves the same status! The point here is that the process by which the decision was adopted was flawed as well as arbitrary. The lower end of Planets will always be arbitrary. Nature does not confirm to our rules. Rather we define Planets as Spheroids (~400+km in diameter depending on mass), being at least as big as Pluto (2300+km), at least as big as Mercury (4878+km), or Dominant in their orbit, all of these definitions will have borderline cases. What happens when we find a Spheriod 480km in diameter (perhaps Huya?) that has too many tall mountain ranges on one side and on the other side has a small bite taken out of it by a collision with another object? Do we call it spherical by self gravity? Do we call it a former Planet (ie: it was a planet until that other object deformed it)?? Vesta looks too me as if it might have been spherical until an object came along took a bite out of it. Because Vesta has a differentiated interior, is it a former 'Dwarf Planet'? I have no problem with us having 50 or 100 planets or more, but the IAU members who voted on this decision did have a problem with that. The IAU had to come up with a definition of a Planet because of all the other TNOs (a group for which Pluto belongs to) being discovered. Since one object (Eris) was discovered to be bigger than Pluto they could infer that other objects would also be bigger than Pluto. The IAU either had to keep Pluto as a Planet and let many other non-dominant obects be included as Planets OR they had to remove Pluto as a Planet. Keeping Pluto as an exception to the rule would be unscientific. But it (Pluto) is different from other Kuiper Belt objects which are mostly much smaller and do not have any moons. Since "most stars are part of a binary star system, most planets have satellites, asteroids are known to have satellites, and some KBOs are known to have satellites", I find your statement that 'most do not have moons' to be inaccurate. Back in the 1960's no one thought Pluto had any satellites either. But since Pluto is one of the closest and most carefully studied KBOs they have found 3 satellites. However, I do feel strongly that the definition of the word planet ultimately adopted should include Pluto. A round object that orbits the sun, has an atmosphere and three moons is a planet. There is no reason it cannot be both a planet and a Kuiper Belt Object. Currently moons are defined by their surrounding DOMINANT (more massive) Planet. But currently (for better or worse) we define both planets and moons by their surroundings. If we want to define Planets by 'what they are' instead of 'where they are', should we also call spherical moons as Planets? That would add 19 moons as Planets. "and ('c') dominates the neighborhood around its orbit clearing it of comparable objects." is as good of definition as any. -- Kevin Heider |
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