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Nature of Victoria's dark streaks, swept clean, deposited, or other?
dvandorn
post Apr 3 2007, 05:12 PM
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Now that we're finally about to do a detailed inspection of the darkest of the dark streaks emanating from the north-northeast portion of the crater rim, it's time for final speculations before we know the truth of the matter.

I'm in the clean-sweep camp. The large-scale orbital observations make these streaks appear almost definitely of aeolian origin -- the manner in which the streaks feather along the edges, and the way in which they curve off as they extend out from the crater, are all consistent with wind/ground interactions.

Observations of the lighter, western streak seem to show more visible concretions right up on the surface. If this holds true of the darker streak, I think that proves the clean-sweep theory.

Think of it this way -- if you packed pebbles and dry dust as a pavement and then let the wind strip away at this surface, the dust would blow off and the pebbles would remain. What dust remained would sit in the lee of the pebbles.

This seems to be exactly what we're seeing in the first dark streak -- the lighter soil component has been blown away entirely, and the darker component (probably eroded concretion material) has been mostly blown away but its remnants sit in the lee of the concretions.

I would expect that any depositional streak would appear as dust or fine-grained soils which cover over the materials we see on the surface outside of the streaks. That's *not* what we're seeing.

In addition, I'd have to treat any suggestion that the blueberries themselves are being blown out of the crater to form the streaks with an awful lot of skepticism. Martian winds aren't strong enough to move the relatively large-and-heavy concretions along level ground -- it would be absolutely impossible for these thin-air winds to have blown them entirely out of the crater and up to a crater diameter's distance away.

Now, if the MIs in the darker streak show that dark dust is consistently filleted on the upwind side of the concretions, and shadowed with less dust downwind of the concretions, *that* would be an indication that the streaks are depositional. But, so far, that's not what we're seeing.

-the other Doug


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fredk
post Apr 9 2007, 05:28 PM
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Does anyone know if El Dorado was thought to be deposited dark sand or dark sand swept clean of light dust? "Aeolian cul-de-sac" sounds like a place where winds stagnate and drop deposits, rather than where winds are fast and lift off light dust. If El Dorado is depositional, then that supports the streaks being so too, since the grain size in the streaks is smaller than at El Dorado.
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Shaka
post Apr 9 2007, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 9 2007, 07:28 AM) *
Does anyone know if El Dorado was thought to be deposited dark sand or dark sand swept clean of light dust?

Both. It is depositional for large basaltic sand grains, and erosional for smaller, lighter grains of dust. In a past period of strong prevailing winds from a southerly direction, sediment of all sizes (including particles eroded from the vesicular basalts) were blown up against Husband Hill. The wind was strong enough to blow the fines up and over the hill (some got dropped up behind the summit in dunes), but the heavier basalt grains a significant fraction of a millimeter in diameter didn't make it. They blew partly up the hill in gusts and then rolled back, up and back, over and over until they got beautifully round and clean and sculpted into a dune field that could not climb over Husband Hill, and was such an effective light trap that it fooled a guy from Portugal into thinking it was an abyss. cool.gif

Sure, you can say the Victoria streaks are both depositional and erosional in that sense, as well. Obviously there is sand and concretions in the streak and they had to get there some way. In the past they must have been blown there by some powerful winds - and deposited - but we have been debating why the streaks look darker than other parts of the annulus now. Every Martian year or three dust storms spread light pink dust over everything. The VC streaks are obliterated. They only reappear gradually over subsequent weeks as the prevailing southerly winds (winds less powerful than the storm winds) blow through the crater, circulate in some complex pattern molded by the crater topography, and funnel or rotate up and out through The Valley without Peril and adjacent bays, lifting and carrying the pink dust with them. Thus the streaks reappear through an erosional process, a process that cleans the dust from the underlying berries and sand. This dusty wind polishes the berries to a high sheen.

Why don't the winds funnel through and clean Bottomless Bay and Bay of Toil as well? Well, they do to a minor degree - you can see faint streaks if you look hard - but the winds probably aren't as strong through the western bays because the crater is higher here (remember Beacon?) or because of some other topographic asymmetry.

Parsimony favors the Clean Streakers because they don't have to postulate a discrete source of dark material being eroded out of the NE cliffs. Where is the source? What is it? I can't see it. I'm still waiting to see a Pancam shot with an arrow pointing to an outcrop of basalt or coal or god-knows-what black stuff. I'm not holding my breath.


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Posts in this topic
- dvandorn   Nature of Victoria's dark streaks   Apr 3 2007, 05:12 PM
- - BrianL   Ooh, I love adding my completely geologically untr...   Apr 3 2007, 06:20 PM
- - Shaka   I certainly hope the plan codes show an MI sequenc...   Apr 3 2007, 07:23 PM
- - imipak   QUOTE (BrianL @ Apr 3 2007, 07:20 PM) Ooh...   Apr 3 2007, 08:02 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   This one's a no-brainer. The dark streaks are...   Apr 3 2007, 08:07 PM
- - Juramike   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Apr 3 2007, 01:12 PM) I...   Apr 3 2007, 08:35 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE What do you think is particularly special ab...   Apr 3 2007, 09:03 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (helvick @ Apr 3 2007, 09:03 PM) Li...   Apr 3 2007, 09:47 PM
- - Juramike   I'll buy that. So...the faster windspeeds are...   Apr 3 2007, 09:18 PM
- - fredk   I've been leaning into the dark deposit camp. ...   Apr 3 2007, 09:30 PM
- - helvick   I think it can be argued either way. _If_ cleaning...   Apr 3 2007, 09:56 PM
- - fredk   There was the dark dust piled up beside rocks on t...   Apr 3 2007, 10:05 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   I don't buy it completely, because of the prep...   Apr 3 2007, 10:08 PM
- - Juramike   Hmmm. Both very good hypotheses. There's no ...   Apr 3 2007, 10:14 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   - There IS dark matterial at the base of the cliff...   Apr 3 2007, 10:27 PM
- - Shaka   I've searched in vain for a nice clear discuss...   Apr 3 2007, 10:36 PM
- - atomoid   Since the dark streaks only seem to be emanating f...   Apr 4 2007, 01:08 AM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (atomoid @ Apr 3 2007, 03:08 PM) Si...   Apr 4 2007, 02:21 AM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (Shaka @ Apr 4 2007, 02:21 AM) Why ...   Apr 4 2007, 03:13 AM
- - MarsIsImportant   Notice how the whole area north and east of Victor...   Apr 4 2007, 03:31 AM
- - CosmicRocker   The fun thing about this discussion is that I thin...   Apr 4 2007, 05:27 AM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 4 2007, 12:27 A...   Apr 4 2007, 01:06 PM
- - antoniseb   I'm in the deposit camp (as opposed to clean s...   Apr 4 2007, 02:24 PM
|- - Juramike   I agree with both Antoniseb and MarsIsImportant. ...   Apr 4 2007, 03:01 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   Impact deposit could very well be part of the expl...   Apr 4 2007, 02:46 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (MarsIsImportant @ Apr 4 2007, 02:4...   Apr 4 2007, 05:59 PM
- - CosmicRocker   MII: You really can't compare the rippled pla...   Apr 4 2007, 02:50 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 4 2007, 09:50 A...   Apr 4 2007, 03:07 PM
- - fredk   Antoniseb makes a good point. I've thought th...   Apr 4 2007, 05:37 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   Well then, my first guess was correct. The specks...   Apr 4 2007, 06:12 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   Well, the color of the depositional dust would dep...   Apr 4 2007, 06:56 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   Does anybody know what day this image was taken? ...   Apr 4 2007, 09:37 PM
- - fredk   As I just posted, that's 1135, between streaks...   Apr 4 2007, 09:53 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 4 2007, 04:53 PM) As I...   Apr 4 2007, 11:35 PM
- - atomoid   Ever notice how the only area in Victoria with the...   Apr 4 2007, 10:05 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (atomoid @ Apr 4 2007, 05:05 PM) Ev...   Apr 4 2007, 11:30 PM
- - Steve   I just wonder if a CRISM image wouldn't tell u...   Apr 5 2007, 01:29 AM
- - Jeff7   Put me in the deposit camp. El Dorado was also a d...   Apr 5 2007, 03:10 AM
- - fredk   Just a reminder to people (like myself!) who t...   Apr 5 2007, 05:08 AM
|- - atomoid   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 4 2007, 09:08 PM) Just...   Apr 5 2007, 11:36 PM
- - CosmicRocker   That's interesting, isn't it? I've pl...   Apr 5 2007, 06:57 AM
- - Edward Schmitz   It doesn't strike me as possible to have such ...   Apr 5 2007, 04:41 PM
- - CosmicRocker   I should apologize up front for posting a montage ...   Apr 5 2007, 07:18 PM
- - Shaka   That's a nice start at organizing the data for...   Apr 5 2007, 07:31 PM
- - fredk   Thanks for the post, Rocker. I think it's ver...   Apr 5 2007, 07:35 PM
- - CosmicRocker   That's right, guys. I wasn't trying to sa...   Apr 5 2007, 08:14 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 5 2007, 03:14 P...   Apr 5 2007, 09:42 PM
- - fredk   That image I posted was straight from this MOC ima...   Apr 6 2007, 12:23 AM
- - CosmicRocker   That's interesting, fredk. If I had looked at...   Apr 6 2007, 07:11 AM
- - fredk   To add one more layer of complexity, here's an...   Apr 6 2007, 04:28 PM
- - fredk   Welcome to the Darkness! Compare tosol...   Apr 6 2007, 04:45 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 6 2007, 11:45 AM) Welc...   Apr 6 2007, 04:58 PM
- - Juramike   Thank you very much Cosmic Rocker! That monta...   Apr 6 2007, 06:19 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (Juramike @ Apr 6 2007, 11:19 AM) L...   Apr 6 2007, 08:10 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ Apr 6 2007, 04:10...   Apr 6 2007, 08:28 PM
|- - atomoid   QUOTE (Juramike @ Apr 6 2007, 12:28 PM) W...   Apr 7 2007, 12:02 AM
- - Stu   (a hand goes up hesitatantly at the back of the cl...   Apr 6 2007, 06:41 PM
- - Juramike   [Lecturer's eyes glaze over, turns and stares...   Apr 6 2007, 07:30 PM
- - Juramike   Here is what might be a sequence of events leading...   Apr 6 2007, 07:48 PM
- - fredk   While we wait for MIs, here are two hazcam views, ...   Apr 7 2007, 03:25 AM
|- - antoniseb   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 6 2007, 09:25 PM) On s...   Apr 7 2007, 10:50 AM
|- - BrianL   QUOTE (antoniseb @ Apr 7 2007, 04:50 AM) ...   Apr 7 2007, 06:00 PM
- - CosmicRocker   It's tough, fredk. The hazcams, navcams, and ...   Apr 7 2007, 07:03 AM
- - Juramike   It looks like the blueberry count is approximately...   Apr 7 2007, 07:25 PM
- - CosmicRocker   BrianL: Yeah, I think the berries are mostly ligh...   Apr 8 2007, 04:05 AM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 8 2007, 04:05 A...   Apr 8 2007, 10:33 PM
- - Stu   Just to clarify my own thoughts here... What I th...   Apr 8 2007, 09:53 AM
- - fredk   Dark streak MIs are in: http://qt.exploratorium.ed...   Apr 8 2007, 06:14 PM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 8 2007, 08:14 AM) It...   Apr 8 2007, 06:35 PM
- - dvandorn   Boy, it really is hard to tell from these two MIs,...   Apr 8 2007, 06:40 PM
- - Shaka   Hold onto your hat, Oppy, so it doesn't blow a...   Apr 8 2007, 06:45 PM
- - Floyd   I think it is deposition. Unlike most other MI (I ...   Apr 8 2007, 06:49 PM
- - fredk   Floyd scooped me, I was just about to post this im...   Apr 8 2007, 07:07 PM
- - Shaka   It's like this, guys, dusty surfaces scatter i...   Apr 8 2007, 07:50 PM
|- - fredk   I don't think anyone can argue with the fact t...   Apr 8 2007, 08:20 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Shaka @ Apr 8 2007, 03:50 PM) Basi...   Apr 9 2007, 03:41 PM
- - Shaka   Sorry, Freddo, it will take a lot more data than t...   Apr 8 2007, 08:47 PM
- - CosmicRocker   That's interesting, fredk. I meant to eventua...   Apr 8 2007, 11:41 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 8 2007, 11:41 P...   Apr 9 2007, 12:39 AM
||- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 8 2007, 08:39 PM) I ha...   Apr 9 2007, 04:00 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 8 2007, 04:41 P...   Apr 9 2007, 05:41 PM
- - Shaka   The next best thing to a windsock is our trusty RA...   Apr 8 2007, 11:50 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (Shaka @ Apr 8 2007, 11:50 PM) (Of ...   Apr 9 2007, 12:49 AM
- - Floyd   I agree with fredk--I think it is deposition and t...   Apr 9 2007, 01:28 AM
- - CosmicRocker   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 8 2007, 07:39 PM) I ha...   Apr 9 2007, 05:51 AM
- - Shaka   In all fairness, Freddo, it was you who first anno...   Apr 9 2007, 06:39 AM
- - Juramike   "Dig we must."   Apr 9 2007, 02:22 PM
- - fredk   Does anyone know if El Dorado was thought to be de...   Apr 9 2007, 05:28 PM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 9 2007, 07:28 AM) Does...   Apr 9 2007, 07:54 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (Shaka @ Apr 9 2007, 07:54 PM) Both...   Apr 9 2007, 11:19 PM
- - Floyd   Seems like the 1139 berries are more deeply buried...   Apr 9 2007, 06:26 PM
- - Juramike   Assuming that the dark fine grains are burying the...   Apr 9 2007, 06:50 PM
- - Juramike   Here is a side by side comparison of two wheel ima...   Apr 9 2007, 07:36 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE I'm still waiting to see a Pancam shot w...   Apr 9 2007, 08:15 PM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ Apr 9 2007, 10:15...   Apr 9 2007, 08:38 PM
|- - WindyT   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ Apr 9 2007, 08:15...   Apr 9 2007, 09:21 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   Is it your assertion that because we haven't s...   Apr 9 2007, 09:00 PM
- - Juramike   I'm wondering about the composition of the dar...   Apr 9 2007, 09:39 PM
- - fredk   RE: Nature of Victoria's dark streaks   Apr 9 2007, 11:34 PM
- - Shaka   You guys trying to test my religious convictions? ...   Apr 10 2007, 01:06 AM
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