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"Could the Meridiani Spherules be Surficial?"
Kye Goodwin
post Jul 10 2007, 04:37 PM
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I have been reading the response to the reponse to impact-surge linked by Dr Burt in post 170. The MER team objects to the impact-spherule explanation because " The spherules are dispersed nearly uniformly across all strata." I agree that is a valid criticism. It is very much like Dr. Burt's criticism of the MER team's hypothesis, that spherule distributions are not consistent with any conceivable ground-water movement regime that should have controled the development of concretions. I agree strongly with this point of Dr. Burt's as well. Neither theory does a good job of explaining the distribution of the spherules. Also, neither theory does a good job of explaining why the spherules do not apparently disturb the bedding.

There may be a solution in a possibilty that I now raise with some trepidation. I think that there is a chance that the spherules are superficial, and not an integral part of the Meridiani strata at all. This probably sounds crazy to many readers, but before rejecting it outright remember that science is at kind of an impasse on this and could use a new idea. If the spherules are superficial this would explain a number of puzzling observations.

The layering at Homeplate and Meridiani is most simply explained by impact-surge. It is elegantly and inescapably explained by impact-surge. The impact-surge authors have also tried to explain the Meridiani spherules as part an impact event. If doubts are raised that the spherules are integral to the deposit, this would not in any way be inconsistent with the impact-surge origin of the layered structure. On the contrary, an objection to impact surge would be removed.

I intend to start another thread under Opportunity to discuss this question. The first posting should be mine and should be an organized outline of how it might be possible that the spherules have been mis-interpreted as part of the Meridiani layered deposit. I am working on it. If anyone wants to start in on me with the obvious objections, do it here for now. Maybe Dr. Burt would like to respond. No matter what the details of spherule formation in an impact or spherule deposition in the impact sediments, the very uniform distributions that we see are troublingly unlikely. Random distributions are possible from explosive dispersal but less likely than some kind of clustering because of the rapidly changing conditions in the surge cloud. The more-uniform-than-random distributions of spherules on rock characterised by MER-team analysis cannot be explained by impact surge.
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Kye Goodwin
post Jul 21 2007, 03:26 PM
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Paxdan, re your 33, That's funny, Thanks. We have crossed the border to a far stranger place than Scotland. On Mars the mathematician's humourously cautious approach may be the most appropriate.

Doug, I do this for pleasure, and I've found that deadlines tend to spoil the fun, so your proposed deadline just isn't going to work for me. You have been keeping this thread alive with your keen interest. If there isn't any further interest by others this is likely to be my last post here. There are lines of evidence which I have not discussed suggesting that the spherules may be surficial, but I am not in any hurry.

In the fall of 2004 I read the original Brine-splat paper and soon thought that the Meridiani layered deposit had been well and simply explained. Impact-surge is such a good idea that I expected to be reading about it in the newspapers within weeks. I did read it in Nature a year later and have watched the impact surge idea slowly gain prominence in the discussion. The MER team now regularly addresses it as the primary alternative to their own work. It seems that you have decided to cut off Dr. Burt's thread. It is hard to understand why you wouldn't want the central debate about Meridiani to take place on your site.

I would be happy to hear from anyone with friendly or constructively critical comments about the ideas I have raised here. I haven't got very far yet with my research on the three occurences of hematite detected at Gusev. I have a paper copy of "Water alteration of rocks and soils on Mars at the Spirit rover site in Gusev Crater" from Nature July 2005, Haskin et al. It includes the detail that the coatings on Mazatzal "contain the only occurrence of CRYSTALLINE haematite detected to date on the basaltic plains of Gusev" (emphasis mine). The source of that is referenced but I ran out of dimes at the library that day and failed to copy the last page. If anyone is ahead of me on this, just what sort of crystalline haematite was detected on Mazatzal? This info-pauper will continue the search. This question may be pertinent to the impact spherule hypothesis because if grey hematite has been found in a form other than spherules it would suggest that a Mars process other than impact may be able to create grey hematite.
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- Kye Goodwin   "Could the Meridiani Spherules be Surficial?"   Jul 10 2007, 04:37 PM
- - djellison   I've seen you mention your theory that the sph...   Jul 10 2007, 04:53 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   Doug Ellison, Thanks for asking. It will be a lon...   Jul 10 2007, 07:12 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Kye Goodwin @ Jul 10 2007, 08:12 P...   Jul 10 2007, 08:11 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   Kye, How would this be a test for either hypothesi...   Jul 10 2007, 07:30 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   MarsIsImportant, If the spherules are superficial,...   Jul 10 2007, 11:21 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Kye Goodwin @ Jul 11 2007, 12:21 A...   Jul 11 2007, 07:36 AM
|- - climber   QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 11 2007, 09:36 AM)...   Jul 11 2007, 06:12 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   Centsworth_II, OK. I will start a topic under Ma...   Jul 11 2007, 12:40 AM
- - Pavel   I'm not a geologist, but I majored in solid st...   Jul 11 2007, 01:00 AM
- - Kye Goodwin   I have started writing on this topic on the thread...   Jul 11 2007, 01:01 AM
- - Kye Goodwin   I have a feeling that I have already lost eveybody...   Jul 11 2007, 05:09 AM
- - MarsIsImportant   I agree with Doug. The spherules are basically ma...   Jul 11 2007, 02:12 PM
- - Bill Harris   QUOTE I do not need to prove that accretion is tak...   Jul 11 2007, 02:46 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   Bill Harris, I can't prove anything by postin...   Jul 11 2007, 05:54 PM
- - djellison   This page - http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery...   Jul 11 2007, 06:33 PM
- - helvick   Kye, I'm all for thinking outside of the box ...   Jul 11 2007, 07:06 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   helvick re your post 17, Thanks. On superficial...   Jul 11 2007, 10:57 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (Kye Goodwin @ Jul 11 2007, 05:57 P...   Jul 12 2007, 12:54 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Kye Goodwin @ Jul 11 2007, 11:57 P...   Jul 12 2007, 07:11 AM
- - dvandorn   OK -- here are two points that might possibly lead...   Jul 13 2007, 04:29 AM
- - MarsIsImportant   Well, the distribution of the spherules was a prob...   Jul 13 2007, 04:56 AM
- - Bill Harris   Agreed, Mars. His argue-ments remind me of http:...   Jul 13 2007, 06:56 AM
- - Kye Goodwin   MarsIsImportant, re your reply 22, I agree, both ...   Jul 13 2007, 03:09 PM
|- - Gray   QUOTE (Kye Goodwin @ Jul 13 2007, 03:09 P...   Jul 13 2007, 04:19 PM
- - denis   Kye, When what looks closely at the spatial distr...   Jul 13 2007, 04:50 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   Gray, Thanks for considering this. What I wrote ...   Jul 13 2007, 05:13 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   denis, re your 26, Thanks. On your first point: ...   Jul 13 2007, 07:01 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   I think Mars is throwing us another 'monkey wr...   Jul 13 2007, 09:17 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   I just thought of another remarkable observation t...   Jul 15 2007, 03:18 PM
- - djellison   How do you make hematite rich spheres sat on top o...   Jul 15 2007, 03:41 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   Doug, re your post 31, in the same order: I am...   Jul 17 2007, 02:31 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Kye Goodwin @ Jul 17 2007, 03:31 P...   Jul 17 2007, 03:47 PM
- - paxdan   An engineer, a physicist, and a mathematician were...   Jul 17 2007, 03:29 PM
|- - Stu   QUOTE (paxdan @ Jul 17 2007, 04:29 PM) An...   Jul 19 2007, 10:46 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   Doug, Thanks for removing that off-topic post. Re...   Jul 19 2007, 05:29 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Kye Goodwin @ Jul 19 2007, 06:29 P...   Jul 19 2007, 05:47 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   To be fair, you are tackling the distribution prob...   Jul 19 2007, 05:55 PM
- - djellison   Interesting paper regarding erosion rates : http:...   Jul 19 2007, 10:35 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   Doug, Yes, "How?" is now the heart of th...   Jul 19 2007, 11:24 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Kye Goodwin @ Jul 20 2007, 12:24 A...   Jul 20 2007, 06:59 AM
|- - tglotch   QUOTE (Kye Goodwin @ Jul 19 2007, 11:24 P...   Jul 21 2007, 07:15 PM
- - Aussie   Kye, Could you please provide a model for your the...   Jul 20 2007, 09:56 AM
- - Kye Goodwin   Doug, re your post 41, Yen is referring to the su...   Jul 20 2007, 03:28 PM
|- - djellison   You've had ten days to bring some sound scienc...   Jul 20 2007, 06:09 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   Paxdan, re your 33, That's funny, Thanks. ...   Jul 21 2007, 03:26 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Kye Goodwin @ Jul 21 2007, 04:26 P...   Jul 21 2007, 04:13 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   tglotch, re your post 47, Thanks very much for yo...   Jul 22 2007, 01:33 AM
- - tglotch   Kye, The occurrences of hematite at Gusev were de...   Jul 23 2007, 07:56 PM
- - Kye Goodwin   tglotch, Thanks for that information about the he...   Jul 24 2007, 02:39 PM
- - djellison   ....in your opinion. It's time to bring this ...   Jul 24 2007, 04:21 PM


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