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Surface Chemistry of Titan
Juramike
post Mar 6 2007, 07:14 PM
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The bulk of the liquid in the lakes on Titan is going to be a methane/ethane combination, but a lot of polymeric organic material is going to have been washed in from the terrain, as well as blown in from the dunes. (The lakes would be a dune trap). That means ice-silt and tholin-coated ice silt.

The higher-order organic polymers may act as a surfactant to coat the ice particles. I would hazard that the hydrophilic functionalities of the polymer subunits would side with the ice particle surface and the hydrophobic parts of the polymer would face the methane solvent. This would allow some really gnarly emulsions to set up.

A cross-section of a lake on Titan would look like a classic "nightmare extraction" sitting in a sep funnel in an organic chemistry laboratory. There would be a foamy goo or scum component floating on the surface, the methane/ethane layer as solvent possibly with low density organic shmeggums floating about, then a denser loose gelatinous organic polymer/solvent component full of organic yukkies (please excuse the med chem. technical jargon), then a more dense portion of organic polymer/organic solvent/water emulsion, and finally a water-ice silt bottom.

Water (ice) and organics are immiscible. But hexanes and acetonitrile (CH3CN) are also immiscible. By analogy, methane should also be immiscible with CH3CN (which would be a solid at Titan’s temperature, but a lower density component than ice). This should make for yet another fun emulsion possibility. [I’ve seen waaaaay too many ugly emulsions in sep funnels with “simple” organic components.]

With the complex organic chemistry at Titan, there is a very real possiblitiy of multiple layers of emulsions combined with an organic scum layer at the surface.

I’m not sure how any of this would affect specular reflections or even radar penetration. The surface would not look like the pretty foam of a bubble batch but more like the curd on overcooked pea soup.. Would certain layers reflect radar better than others? Can you get specular reflection when there are bubbles or “floaters” on the surface? What if the “floaters” are soft low density organics? How do organic emulsion blobs reflect radar?

The patterns we are seeing in the lower parts of the lakes may be channels in the goopy lower emulsion layers (think of the orange crud at the bottom of scummy ponds). I could imagine a scenario when higher density organic goo flows into the lakes and carves a path through the less dense emulsion. The real “bottoms” of the lakes may lie under meters of organic emulsion.

Lakes on Titan may resemble more of an open pit hazmat toxic waste dump (although I still like to think of it as “a pristine prebiotic environment”).


-Mike


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Posts in this topic
- Juramike   Surface Chemistry of Titan   Mar 6 2007, 07:14 PM
- - Stu   Can't claim for a moment to have understood mu...   Mar 6 2007, 08:08 PM
- - ngunn   Yes, a useful post, thanks. I had been wondering a...   Mar 6 2007, 09:09 PM
- - stevesliva   Titan's tar tarns revealed. The real question...   Mar 6 2007, 11:26 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (stevesliva @ Mar 6 2007, 03:26 PM)...   Mar 7 2007, 01:04 AM
- - nprev   Yes indeed, a terrific post, Juramike. I suspected...   Mar 6 2007, 11:31 PM
- - lyford   MMMMMmmm "creme brulee crust and scummy pea s...   Mar 6 2007, 11:52 PM
- - edstrick   "...Lakes on Titan may resemble more of an op...   Mar 7 2007, 09:52 AM
- - remcook   "[...] although I still like to think of it a...   Mar 7 2007, 10:34 AM
|- - ustrax   Great post juramike! Really visual and...smell...   Mar 7 2007, 10:48 AM
- - ngunn   I imagine that when fresh rain falls it is really ...   Mar 7 2007, 01:59 PM
|- - ustrax   Thanks ngunn. Here's an interesting pdf, I do...   Mar 7 2007, 02:42 PM
- - ngunn   Thanks Ustrax! That one's a real peach. Lo...   Mar 7 2007, 03:08 PM
|- - ustrax   Another question... In a crop from this image it...   Mar 7 2007, 03:35 PM
- - ngunn   OK this is difficult because I can't post anno...   Mar 7 2007, 04:27 PM
|- - ustrax   Good interpretation ngunn, I hadn't seen those...   Mar 7 2007, 05:27 PM
- - Juramike   QUOTE One thing that makes me scratch my head is w...   Mar 7 2007, 05:26 PM
|- - Littlebit   QUOTE (Juramike @ Mar 7 2007, 10:26 AM) A...   Mar 7 2007, 07:25 PM
||- - remcook   QUOTE (Littlebit @ Mar 7 2007, 07:25 PM) ...   Mar 7 2007, 07:42 PM
||- - Juramike   QUOTE (Littlebit @ Mar 7 2007, 02:25 PM) ...   Mar 7 2007, 08:35 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (Juramike @ Mar 7 2007, 05:26 PM) T...   Mar 8 2007, 09:37 AM
- - helvick   Brilliant thread folks. Goo-ological cycles, gunk ...   Mar 7 2007, 08:01 PM
- - belleraphon1   All... agree this is a fascinating thread. I a...   Mar 7 2007, 09:31 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (belleraphon1 @ Mar 7 2007, 04:31 P...   Mar 7 2007, 10:48 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (Juramike @ Mar 7 2007, 02:48 PM) [...   Mar 7 2007, 11:41 PM
- - ngunn   I'm not a chemist either but perhaps the room-...   Mar 7 2007, 10:16 PM
- - nprev   Wow...we have a no-kidding organic chemist in the ...   Mar 7 2007, 11:00 PM
|- - tty   QUOTE (nprev @ Mar 8 2007, 12:00 AM) I as...   Mar 7 2007, 11:14 PM
|- - JRehling   This is fascinating stuff. Trying to figure out th...   Mar 7 2007, 11:26 PM
||- - tty   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 8 2007, 12:26 AM) I...   Mar 8 2007, 01:55 PM
|- - remcook   QUOTE (tty @ Mar 7 2007, 11:14 PM) Nitrog...   Mar 8 2007, 08:56 AM
- - nprev   Yikes! I'll put out my cigar now...   Mar 7 2007, 11:41 PM
- - belleraphon1   Mike... be careful in your lab. I may have two...   Mar 8 2007, 01:12 AM
- - AndyG   Fascinating as these lakes are, it's worth rem...   Mar 8 2007, 09:26 AM
- - ngunn   I think it's worth bearing in mind that the gr...   Mar 8 2007, 10:04 AM
|- - ustrax   I don't know if this might be useful to you bu...   Mar 8 2007, 11:10 AM
- - ngunn   Glad too see AndyG urging for a super-long-lived T...   Mar 8 2007, 10:37 AM
- - ngunn   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 7 2007, 11:26 PM) E...   Mar 8 2007, 12:09 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (ngunn @ Mar 8 2007, 12:09 PM) Mayb...   Mar 8 2007, 12:49 PM
- - Juramike   From the "Titan lakes revealed" thread ...   Mar 8 2007, 01:23 PM
|- - ustrax   Precious...just precious to read your words... ...   Mar 8 2007, 01:37 PM
|- - ustrax   Knowing that Titan is still active in its interior...   Mar 8 2007, 03:02 PM
|- - belleraphon1   QUOTE (ustrax @ Mar 8 2007, 10:02 AM) Kno...   Mar 8 2007, 04:46 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (belleraphon1 @ Mar 8 2007, 04:46 P...   Mar 8 2007, 05:22 PM
- - Juramike   I'm guessing the really interesting molecules ...   Mar 8 2007, 03:01 PM
- - belleraphon1   All.... once again have to keep in mind the surf...   Mar 8 2007, 04:44 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (belleraphon1 @ Mar 8 2007, 11:44 A...   Mar 8 2007, 07:39 PM
- - tty   Note that one theory of how life originally evolve...   Mar 8 2007, 07:11 PM
- - nprev   Large impacts, though rare, undoubtedly must have ...   Mar 8 2007, 07:57 PM
- - tty   With such a deep atmosphere micrometeorites would ...   Mar 8 2007, 10:35 PM
|- - belleraphon1   QUOTE (tty @ Mar 8 2007, 05:35 PM) With s...   Mar 8 2007, 10:50 PM
- - Mongo   According to this pdf, The following substances wo...   Mar 8 2007, 10:37 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (Mongo @ Mar 8 2007, 05:37 PM) etha...   Mar 8 2007, 10:45 PM
- - ngunn   Brief comment - organic chemistry is definitely no...   Mar 8 2007, 10:42 PM
|- - belleraphon1   QUOTE (ngunn @ Mar 8 2007, 05:42 PM) Brie...   Mar 8 2007, 11:01 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (ngunn @ Mar 8 2007, 05:42 PM) 1/ W...   Mar 8 2007, 11:02 PM
- - dvandorn   You know, it's a lot of fun to talk about all ...   Mar 9 2007, 07:19 AM
|- - ustrax   Speaking of Titan surface... I made a sequence fro...   Mar 9 2007, 11:37 AM
|- - Littlebit   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Mar 9 2007, 12:19 AM) Y...   Mar 9 2007, 02:32 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Mar 9 2007, 02:19 AM) ....   Mar 9 2007, 03:21 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Mar 9 2007, 02:19 AM) T...   Mar 9 2007, 04:12 PM
||- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Juramike @ Mar 9 2007, 11:12 AM) I...   Mar 9 2007, 04:45 PM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Mar 9 2007, 02:19 AM) w...   Mar 9 2007, 11:11 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Mar 9 2007, 07:19 AM) a...   Mar 12 2007, 02:43 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (ngunn @ Mar 12 2007, 10:43 AM) The...   Mar 12 2007, 03:46 PM
- - ngunn   One idea is that some process destroys ammonia pre...   Mar 9 2007, 03:06 PM
- - belleraphon1   And what is causing the butterscoth coloration? Yo...   Mar 9 2007, 04:47 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (belleraphon1 @ Mar 9 2007, 11:47 A...   Mar 9 2007, 05:00 PM
||- - Littlebit   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Mar 9 2007, 11:00 ...   Mar 12 2007, 02:03 PM
||- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Littlebit @ Mar 12 2007, 10:03 AM)...   Mar 12 2007, 03:26 PM
|- - belleraphon1   QUOTE (belleraphon1 @ Mar 9 2007, 12:47 P...   Mar 16 2007, 02:50 AM
- - tasp   Here's an enlargement of the Miller/Urey flask...   Mar 12 2007, 02:35 PM
- - ngunn   An absolutely black matrix dotted with even a smal...   Mar 12 2007, 03:45 PM
|- - Littlebit   QUOTE (ngunn @ Mar 12 2007, 09:45 AM) An ...   Mar 12 2007, 04:58 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Littlebit @ Mar 12 2007, 12:58 PM)...   Mar 12 2007, 05:19 PM
- - ngunn   Titan mud - maybe like a dried up oil slick?? Dunn...   Mar 12 2007, 04:00 PM
- - ngunn   My thanks also for that useful link. An interestin...   Mar 12 2007, 08:50 PM
- - dvandorn   This is emblematic of the "scale trap" w...   Mar 13 2007, 04:44 AM
- - edstrick   All the evidence on Titan surface compositions (pl...   Mar 13 2007, 09:14 AM
- - Littlebit   With 20/20 hindsight, we can see that the surface ...   Mar 13 2007, 02:57 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Littlebit @ Mar 13 2007, 02:57 PM)...   Mar 13 2007, 04:17 PM
- - remcook   "It was designed upon the bases of what we ex...   Mar 13 2007, 03:34 PM
- - dvandorn   Useful? Yes. But it was *optimized* for the liqu...   Mar 13 2007, 04:06 PM
- - ngunn   Couldn't agree more. It was brilliant. The com...   Mar 13 2007, 05:27 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (ngunn @ Mar 13 2007, 05:27 PM) I d...   Mar 14 2007, 09:34 AM
- - Juramike   The fact that we are discussing these questions in...   Mar 13 2007, 07:28 PM
- - edstrick   After all, Huygen's primary mission ENDED at i...   Mar 14 2007, 09:16 AM
- - ngunn   Splendid stuff. And presumably this proposal will ...   Mar 14 2007, 02:13 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (ngunn @ Mar 14 2007, 02:13 PM) Spl...   Mar 14 2007, 02:22 PM
- - remcook   NASA's solar system exploration roadmap seems ...   Mar 14 2007, 02:22 PM
- - remcook   this theme sounds familiar http://space.newscienti...   Mar 14 2007, 03:59 PM
- - nprev   The hell of it all is that I'm not sure that w...   Mar 16 2007, 03:34 AM
- - Stu   Been working on this awhile, hope some of you enjo...   Mar 25 2007, 12:26 PM
- - ngunn   I like that Stuart, especially the 'fat foul r...   Mar 26 2007, 01:40 PM
- - Juramike   (With total apologies to Stu and his beautiful poe...   Mar 30 2007, 09:18 PM
|- - paxdan   QUOTE (Juramike @ Mar 30 2007, 10:18 PM) ...   Mar 30 2007, 10:25 PM
- - volcanopele   You don't know how close I came to doing my LP...   Mar 30 2007, 09:54 PM
- - nprev   Zig-a-zag-a, whiff-a-whiff-a-whiff-a... VP! A...   Mar 30 2007, 11:30 PM
- - centsworth_II   Props on the mad skills y'all!   Mar 31 2007, 04:12 PM
- - nprev   Word! Nothin' but love for y'all...pea...   Mar 31 2007, 09:45 PM
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