Post Block Island Meteor Studies (The Western Route), The 6th Leg in our Zig Zag Journey to Endeavour Crater |
Post Block Island Meteor Studies (The Western Route), The 6th Leg in our Zig Zag Journey to Endeavour Crater |
Nov 12 2009, 08:10 PM
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#676
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3516 Joined: 4-November 05 From: North Wales Member No.: 542 |
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Nov 12 2009, 08:17 PM
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#677
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 4763 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Glendale, AZ Member No.: 197 |
If I may, Why wouldn't the rock just lean over to the side? If a wealthy relative died and left you a million dollar cane covered with diamonds, would you ever, under any circumstances use it to tip over a rock? What if the cane was worth hundreds of millions of dollars? -------------------- If Occam had heard my theory, things would be very different now.
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Nov 12 2009, 10:28 PM
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#678
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2262 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Melbourne - Oz Member No.: 16 |
Tonight's catchup - most of the R21 colour drive direction mosaics I missed while without internet (sols 2034 to 2054).
I'll just put one thumbnail in this post to save space, but follow the link and you'll see all ten. James -------------------- |
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Nov 13 2009, 06:52 AM
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#679
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 4279 Joined: 19-April 05 From: .br at .es Member No.: 253 |
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Nov 13 2009, 08:20 AM
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#680
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
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Nov 13 2009, 03:19 PM
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#681
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Member Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 28-October 08 From: Boston, MA Member No.: 4469 |
...would you ever, under any circumstances use it to tip over a rock? I might, if I'd already been humping it around the desert for six years using it to scrape dirt off of rocks, and occasionally rolling it down a steep hill with no guarantee of getting it back up. (Just kidding... please don't push the rock...) |
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Nov 13 2009, 05:11 PM
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#682
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
I'm still hoping someone will answer briv's question about the size of Marquette. Would briefcase-sized be about right? OK. Not exactly an imposing monolith. More like the size of a chunky, medium large handbag. It looks a little larger than the 26cm diameter wheel. Still a hazard to run into. If the wheel climbed up onto it, the rover could be hung up*. And putting any force on the rover's old arm with its gimpy joint would not be a good idea. (Are they still afraid to stow that thing?) *edit: On the other hand, from wikipedia, the suspension system "allows the rover to go over obstacles... that are more than a wheel diameter". Hmmmm. Probably the best shot at tipping the rock would be if the wheel climbed up on it. Good idea? http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...cam/2009-11-12/ |
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Nov 13 2009, 05:43 PM
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#683
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4256 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
A lot easier and a lot safer than attempting to turn over MI would be to turn over one of the smaller rubble pieces by driving over it. Presumably they are fragments of the same bigger rock and so are the same type of rock.
I'm not sure what we'd learn from that though. Is the idea that the surface not exposed to the wind would tell us something about weathering or maybe how long the rocks have sat here? |
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Nov 13 2009, 06:05 PM
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#684
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 59 Joined: 12-November 09 Member No.: 5039 |
Most likely outcome of Opportunity pushing on rock: No movement of rock and possible damage to Opportunity. Well, we are *well* past warranty anyway, so why not to take some risk? Unless drivers decide to ram the rock at full speed, I don't see why it would be that dangerous to push it. Keep in mind that if the rock topples, it might be interesting to examine how soil beneath him differs from open plain. Maybe this give a clue how long the rock is there. |
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Nov 13 2009, 06:29 PM
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#685
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 11-September 09 Member No.: 4937 |
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Nov 13 2009, 06:38 PM
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#686
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14434 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Keep in mind that if the rock topples, The topling process might hit the rover. THe topling process may kick up so much dirt it obscures the solar arrays and the cameras, The topling process rips the IDD off. The topling process takes a solar array with it. I'd keep a LOT of things in mind. |
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Nov 13 2009, 07:10 PM
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#687
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
.... The topling process takes a solar array with it. Ha, ha! Too much coffee?I too don't like the idea of purposely pushing on that rock. But really, it's barely larger than rocks the rover was designed to roll over. Still, no reason to go out of our way looking for trouble. |
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Nov 13 2009, 07:20 PM
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#688
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Martian Photographer Group: Members Posts: 353 Joined: 3-March 05 Member No.: 183 |
so why not to take some risk? Reasonable question ... my answer would start with, how far "past warranty" is an immaterial metric. Over 2000 sols are in the books and that doesn't hinge on any decision made now. Risk loses its sting not when the past is extensive, but when the future is short. What does matter is what can be achieved and how likely the achievement is. A reasonable, but not exhaustive metric would be to look at the high potential science return of an Endurance campaign times the probability of accomplishing that campaign if (1) Opportunity is driven in a discovery-responsive but cautious fashion, or (2) Opportunity is driven to maximize hypothetical upsides of current investigations without respect to the 'opportunity' cost of lost future investigations if we just say "what the heck, we're past warranty, let's take some risk". I would suggest, at a minimum you'd have to show that the potential value of your risk taking times probability of its success would exceed the probabilistic impact to the Endeavor journey and campaign. So, my answer in this instance would be: you're looking at a low probability of achieving something of limited value while accepting some risks to science instrumentation, mobility, and vehicle, all of which jeopardize more likely and more valuable campaigns between here and Endeavor and at the crater. (My opinion, only, btw, not speaking for anyone.) |
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Nov 13 2009, 09:16 PM
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#689
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4256 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
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Nov 13 2009, 10:24 PM
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#690
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8785 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Risk loses its sting not when the past is extensive, but when the future is short. What does matter is what can be achieved and how likely the achievement is. That's a statement worth remembering, folks; spoken like a true systems engineer! Hell, that's actually a very good heuristic. Completely agree that, in this case, the risk/reward ratio yields a very straightforward answer of "no". -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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