Getting to 'Big Crater', A little premature speculation Options

[Aberdeenastro]

I don't know if anyone else has already spotted this, but I think we can also see the west rim of Big Crater directly beyond Cabo Frio about 15 km away, although it's very subtle. I've labelled the north, south-east and west rim peaks as A, B and C in this montage:



Thanks to DEChengst for the pancam mosaic.

Castor

[ustrax]

I don't know if anyone else has already spotted this, but I think we can also see the west rim of Big Crater directly beyond Cabo Frio about 15 km away, although it's very subtle.

Yes, I've seen it Castor.
I did the same as before with the ones you made reference to.
It is just an attempt, don't know if it is correct (au contraire of what climber says I'm not good at matching features...just ask pando or james...)...But, by now, we got all the time in the world for divinatory arts... :

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustrax3/ithaca3.jpg

[tim53]

Notice in todays JPL update they agree that the main peak is on the far (SE) rim of the big crater (35km away)

Also note that some smaller features can be seen in todays pancams.

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...CNP2386R1M1.JPG

I haven't looked at the angles but I would bet that those are the hills on the west side of the crater that SFJCody plotted the route too in the first post of this thread.

James

I didn't plot the latter peaks in the update because I'm still not sure which they are. The are in line with the southwest rim of the 22km crater, but the height of the rim there doesn't seem sufficient for them to be visible from Victoria. The topography map I'm using was generated from the 128ppd gridded data, however, so it is possible that the pixel over that part of the rim is averaged with the surrounding elevations, and reduced accordingly. I did check the individual ground tracks, and there isn't a gap in the coverage there, so the peak's elevation should have been sampled. I didn't check the individual profiles to see if the values differ from the gridded data there, though.

Those peaks "appear" farther than the southeast rim peak, which is 35 kilometers away. The southwest rim peak, tangent to the line of sight from Duck Bay, is between 18 and 26km away. There are two other large crraters past the 22km crater in this direction that *might* have peaks on them tall enough to be seen from Victoria. The first one is 41km (near rim) to 48km (far rim) from Duck Bay, with rim peaks over 120m tall. The second one is 56km - 68km away, and has rim peaks that are higher, but my topomap doesn't cover its southeast rim, so I don't know what the height is.

Based on the Pathfinder experience, where we had a 450m tall streamlined island that was over 30km away and easily visible, and based on the fact that the topography slopes down away from Victoria to the 80m+ lower plains that these craters are on, I think it's possible to see this far even with Mars' curvature. But I think we will just have to wait and see if one of the higher promontories around Victoria will give us a better view of the horizon.

-Tim.

[centsworth_II]

Is this an arrival sol poll thread? My pick is sol 2560.

[karl]

The absolute record, with perfect terrain and a 100% healthy vehicle is 220.

With half the power, one broken steering actuator.... I would aruge that the very most we could dream of is 150m in any one sol.

Doug

And with a very long extended mission, I would think that a dropoff in the ability of the battery to fully recharge would kick in, further reducing the power available for drives and science activities. I don't know off the top of my head the what the battery capabilities and projected lifetime are.

[lyford]

Well, According To Steve, we have about 10,000 recharge cycles to play with before we need to worry...

[Arkarch]

Echoing some of the other discussion - I think we'll be looking around the rim quite awhile before we go in - and I dont think they'll send Oppy down unless they have a good probability of getting out. So they'll find best paths and best targets to get the science they need.

Beyond that.... whew... reach "Big Crater" on day 2500+ I would suspect they will need several intermediate goals to justify funding another 1000-1200 days. But beyond the science, keeping Oppy and Spirit around allows JPL/NASA to train new operators and try out new software for the benefit of future rover missions.

- . -

This mission is starting to take on "Voyager" - like timelines. 2 1/2 years to reach Victoria, a year in Victoria, another 3 years to "Big Crater" Sooner or later Oppy will encounter alien intelligence, gain self-awareness, and come back to haunt mankind like some sorta Star Trek movie plotline

- . -

[nprev]

<clink><clink><clink>...oops. Does the swear jar accept plastic? I have a debt to pay...

Fantastic work, ustrax....talk about a tantalizing long-term goal on the horizon...

[climber]

This mission is starting to take on "Voyager" - like timelines. 2 1/2 years to reach Victoria, a year in Victoria, another 3 years to "Big Crater" Sooner or later Oppy will encounter alien intelligence, gain self-awareness, and come back to haunt mankind like some sorta Star Trek movie plotline

If they attempt to get to Ithaca, can you imagine they could send a command once a week for the rest of the week and get results by the week-end? Can you imagine that ???

[fredk]

I've been wondering about that myself, Climber. How much independence could we program into these babies? Is it conceivable to imagine a very long-term mission with a much lower funding level, with Oppy rolling along as best it can on its own towards the "big crater" or wherever, with only occasional input from earth? Some weeks she might make great progress, while others she may wait for days for help from home.

I'm sure the answer depends greatly on the terrain. I couldn't imagine software that could get you safely and reasonably quickly through the worst ripples of the etched terrain. But then I don't do image processing.

Also, perhaps with higher resolution orbital MRO imagery a safe path could be laid out and Oppy simply programmed to follow it, with occasional position checks from Earth to correct for cumulative errors.

[ustrax]

This mission is starting to take on "Voyager" - like timelines. 2 1/2 years to reach Victoria, a year in Victoria, another 3 years to "Big Crater"
- . -

5 1/2 years?!?...I'm counting with it for MSL arrival as the limit...
When I'm being optimistic I see it in June, 2008...
Are we following an escargot or Oppy?, the self sustainable rover?!...

nprev...Let's wait for the pros to say something...

climber...That made me laugh out loud on this cyber and people here aren't aware of the "miracle" we're witnessing, neither will they if we arrive to Ithaca...So, let's keep it simple...BY what I've been aware of extended mission funding is coming...

EDITED: Great approach fredk!!!
That's the Spirit leading Opportunity towards Ithaca...
After Troy Ulysses made it on it's own back home...
This is a great Tomorrow's topic! The kind we'll be back in some years from now...

[nprev]

Oh, of course...that was merely unbridled wishful thinking. If Oppy made another 35 km, Lockmart should come back to the government at that point and demand royalties!

Still...it sure would be nice if, on that sad future day when this unbelievable mission ends, those hills at least fill the horizon of the last panorama, showing tantalizing new features while the surrounding landscape gradually transitions into a new geological province...

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

This thread is more active than the Victoria Crater one. Are people bored with Victoria Crater already?

[Pando]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence...

[jamescanvin]

And the details are starting to show up...Priceless... :

I haven't got time to do the maths but from previous work I would bet that your match is wrong. I think we're looking at a much smaller part of the rim. I would guess that the whole feature is between your rightmost two circles.

Tim, thanks for the reply. Now you mention it those do 'look' further. Is there any way of estimating the distance based on how 'hazy' the hills look and the atmospheric Tau?

James