Planetary scientist says: Focus on Europa |
Planetary scientist says: Focus on Europa |
Guest_AlexBlackwell_* |
Feb 12 2007, 11:26 PM
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Planetary scientist says: Focus on Europa
By Tony Fitzpatrick Washington University in St. Louis News & Information February 7, 2007 |
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Guest_Analyst_* |
Feb 13 2007, 11:18 AM
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I think the scientific community most focus on one target (Europa, Titan, Enceladus) to have a chance to get the funding for one outer planets flagship mission. They won't get two, I am afraid.
My priorities: - Flagship to Europa or to all Jupiter moons (like Galileo) - New Frontiers mission 3 to Titan or Enceladus (no lander), maybe with ESA (with lander) and Cassini extended - Flagship to Neptune sometimes arround 2025 - next Discovery mission to Venus Analyst |
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Feb 13 2007, 04:55 PM
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10227 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
Maybe it's different with other screen settings, but this is how my browser displays the heading for the (previous) latest post in this thread, on the UMSF main page:
Somehow it brings to mind a quite different idea... "When Galileo's antenna didn't open, ..." "When Mars Polar Lander went splat, ..." And a party game. Invent another abbreviated topic title. Hilarity ensues. Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PDF: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Feb 13 2007, 05:03 PM
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14434 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
The other being "Rover driver says: Oh S..."
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Feb 13 2007, 05:14 PM
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
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Feb 13 2007, 05:21 PM
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8785 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
...yes, some of these abbreviated titles have also given me pause on occasion...I always check out the thread, though!
I agree with Analyst; seems like it might be time to focus outer-system exploration in light of new budget constraints. Question here is whether Europa is both the most scientifically interesting & comparatively less risky target if we have to put most of our eggs in one basket. One thing that's really nice about Titan & Enceladus is the relatively benign radiation environment...seems like a flagship-class mission to either of these would be more survivable & less expensive to build for that reason alone, though that might be traded off for increased booster & long-term cruise mission management costs. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Guest_Zvezdichko_* |
Feb 13 2007, 05:25 PM
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I suggest two big probes of which both include an orbiter and a lander. The first one to be Jupiter orbiter/ short living Europa lander, the second one - Neptune orbiter/ short living Triton lander. This is the cheapest alternative IMO. Other ideas:
1. Airplane, or several baloons for Titan 2. Several small penetrators for Europa. Good idea if we want to find out what's below the surface. 3. Saturn atmospheric probe. |
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Feb 14 2007, 09:36 AM
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2922 Joined: 14-February 06 From: Very close to the Pyrénées Mountains (France) Member No.: 682 |
We can find some more ....like Phil and Doug,
"Yesterday, 08:16 PM In: Fire possible only on plane... By: helvick" -------------------- |
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Feb 15 2007, 03:37 AM
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Member Group: Members Posts: 477 Joined: 2-March 05 Member No.: 180 |
I too would really love to see a mission to Europa.
One thing I wonder about Europa though - it has a pretty good shell of ice around it. Can this shield the ocean below from the radiation around Jupiter? Exactly what kind of radiation are we talking about? I ask because one theoretical spaceship design I've seen to get astronauts to Mars would be a spherical ship, with a shell containing liquid water. This would serve as a shield against interplanetary radiation. This is only theoretical, because such a ship, in order to be large enough to hold a crew and supplies, would be extremely massive, and nearly impossible to launch and even propel to Mars, much less have it return. |
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Feb 15 2007, 05:11 AM
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
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Feb 15 2007, 05:20 AM
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 3241 Joined: 11-February 04 From: Tucson, AZ Member No.: 23 |
I think the seasons of each of the main targets may dictate which each mission should take place. For Europa, a mission can occur at any time since it has a very low axial tilt with respect to the ecliptic, and there is no polar region priority. For Titan, it would be best for a mission to reach Titan at or shortly before equinox so that 2 micron mapping coverage can be obtained for the entire satellite. For Enceladus, the best time would be at or shortly before southern summer solstice to get the best coverage possible of the south polar region.
Given this, here is a possible schedule: Europa: Launch 2013-2014 Arrival: 2015-2016 Titan: Launch: 2018-2019 Arrival: 2025 Enceladus: Launch: 2025-2026 Arrival: 2032 Of course, add in some New Frontiers missions to Io... -------------------- &@^^!% Jim! I'm a geologist, not a physicist!
The Gish Bar Times - A Blog all about Jupiter's Moon Io |
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Guest_vjkane2000_* |
Feb 15 2007, 05:45 AM
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I expect a lot of creativity to appear. Bruce Moomaw has pointed out that an Europa orbiter could do a number of Io flybies by using some of the mass margin for extra radiation shielding. The mission will also involve a number of Ganymede flybies.
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Feb 15 2007, 02:23 PM
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3516 Joined: 4-November 05 From: North Wales Member No.: 542 |
Thanks for that link. That is indeed a very handy and well-written summary of the situation at Europa. I'm doing some Europa reading just in case the planners manage to resist the siren songs of Titan (but how could they?) Volcanopele, I like your timetable. That means two big mission launches in quick succession. And why not! Where there's a will there's a way. We must demand BOTH the moons, at the best time to maximise the science. Given some of the things money gets spent on (not just in America) I see no reason to be timid about these entirely worthy, knowledge enriching, consciousness-raising, humanity-defining enterprises. |
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Feb 18 2007, 07:53 AM
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 29-December 05 Member No.: 623 |
More from McKinnon, et al. A nice story from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, plus a couple of nice graphics.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stor...9F?OpenDocument "We think the ocean leaks onto the surface," said McKinnon, a planetary scientist at Washington University. "What does that tell us about the chemistry of the water that's down below? And the 64 billion dollar question is, could any of that stuff have the signature of life?" |
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Feb 18 2007, 04:21 PM
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8785 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Volcanopele, I like your timetable. That means two big mission launches in quick succession. And why not! Where there's a will there's a way. We must demand BOTH the moons, at the best time to maximise the science. Given some of the things money gets spent on (not just in America) I see no reason to be timid about these entirely worthy, knowledge enriching, consciousness-raising, humanity-defining enterprises. I agree with you wholeheartedly, NG, but the sad fact of the matter is that due to numerous other present US government financial pressures and priority shifts (which we won't discuss due to forum rules), it's extremely unlikely in my opinion that there will be enough funding available for two or more outer-system Flagships anytime soon. In fact, we'll be really lucky to get even one funded, so that's why we'd better choose carefully... On the other hand, this constraint may drive innovation as vjkane2000 noted. Two or more very capable Discovery-class missions may be preferable, and certainly would provide a more comprehensive science campaign. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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