Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: nprev Dec 25 2006, 12:15 AM

Anybody know if there's to be a naming of names for MSL? If so, I'd just like to propose an unimpeachable candidate moniker: Sagan (Carl to his friends).

I know that the MPF lander was named in his honor, but for some reason the name never stuck with the public in the same way that Sojourner, Spirit, and Opportunity did; perhaps we tend to anthropomorphize rovers more than fixed landers. In that light, MSL will hopefully spend many years exploring Mars much as Sagan did; what could be more fitting?

Posted by: Bob Shaw Dec 25 2006, 12:27 AM

Antoniadi?

Lowell?

Burroughs?

In order of credibility...

Bob Shaw

Posted by: nprev Dec 25 2006, 12:37 AM

You forgot Heinlein (Red Planet)! Come to that, how about "Willis"?

Posted by: Bob Shaw Dec 25 2006, 12:45 AM

I'd go for 'Willis' any day, but 'he' came from fiction, rather than (alleged) fact!

And as for Stanley G Weinbaum...

Bob Shaw

Posted by: nprev Dec 25 2006, 12:52 AM

Yeah...if we ever send another pair of rovers, I'd definitely go for Willis & Tweel. If nothing else, some of the kids might rediscover the magic in these classics...it makes a difference.

Posted by: edstrick Dec 25 2006, 08:17 AM

Tars Tarkas and Deja Thoris.
And there's always good <?> old Ras Thavas, the Mastermind of Mars.

Posted by: tty Dec 25 2006, 04:49 PM

How come nobody has even mentioned Schiaparelli?

Also in the name of political correctness shouldn't we use the native pronounciation of Tweel which was actualy "Trrrweeerrlll"?

tty

Posted by: nprev Dec 25 2006, 08:05 PM

Oh, great; if we do that, then we'll have to figure out Willis' true name in High Martian!

Posted by: climber Dec 25 2006, 08:57 PM

Bob, you forget a question mark after the last name! Does it mean that he is your favorite?

Posted by: Bob Shaw Dec 25 2006, 10:15 PM

Unquestionably!

Bob Shaw

Posted by: dvandorn Dec 26 2006, 03:14 AM

Since MSL will travel faster than the MERs and Sojourner (if only marginally), it will be the fastest moving thing on Mars.

So, why not call it Bottomos?



-the other Doug

p.s. -- if someone could name the short story from which my reference comes, I'd love the reminder. I remember the piece clearly, but have not the slightest remnant of the title or author left in this rotten gray thing I call a brain... *sigh*...

Posted by: Bob Shaw Dec 26 2006, 05:17 PM

oDoug:

"The Holes Around Mars" by Jerome Bixby.

I was never really sure about a moon called 'Bottomos' - sounds more like a feature to be associated with the eighth planet...

Bob Shaw

Posted by: Steve Dec 27 2006, 01:33 AM

Off hand, I imagine NASA will follow past patterns of planetary vehicles and give MSL a generally descriptive and symbolic name (like MER-A/Spirit; MER-B/Opportunity).

There is a pattern of naming space observatories after modern astronomers: Hubble (optical), Chandra (x-ray), Spitzer (IR), Compton (gamma ray), and (with ESA) Herschel (far IR).

The only planetary vehicles named after people are named after historic scientific figures or explorers: Galileo, Cassini-Huygens, Magellan.

If this pattern holds, "Sagan" is out of the running for MSL.

Steve

Posted by: nprev Dec 27 2006, 01:58 AM

How so, Steve? Sagan was more than a popularizer, he did some very fundamental work in planetary science. Arguably, he was one of the true pioneers in the field after Bruce Murray, and although this is recent history it is history nonetheless.

Posted by: JonClarke Dec 27 2006, 07:18 AM

However there is already a Sagan memorial station on Mars, so naming MSL after him might be overkill.

I nominate Bagnold. Ralph Bagnold was a remarkable man, a pioneer in the use of vehicles in desert exploration in the 20's and 30's, inventor of several useful gadgets for mechanised desert exploration and travel. DuringWWII he founded the Long Range Desert Group, a formidable military unit that specialised in deep penetration special operations in North Africa. Bagnold also did almost all the fundamental research on aeolian geomorphology, sedimentology and physics and wrote scores of papers. His last paper, coauthored with Carol Sagan, was on the sand dunes of Mars.

Bagnold, desert traveller, explorer, and scientist, and Mars researcher, seems an eminently suitable name for a Mars rover.

Jon

Posted by: edstrick Dec 27 2006, 11:14 AM

Amen, though perhaps Bagnold might be a good name for the first Martian DuneBuggy.

I continue to wonder what traction performance improvement they expect in loose sandy material over the MER rovers. It would be trancendentally sucky if the skycrane plopped the MSL down in the middle of a sand-sheet filled crater and it sank up to over it's wheel-hubs.

Posted by: MahFL Dec 27 2006, 03:36 PM

My late grandad served in the LRDG . He did not die in the war.

Posted by: centsworth_II Dec 27 2006, 04:50 PM

I'd love to see the MSL named "Ralph"!
A great down to Earth (or Mars) name
for a hard working rover.

Posted by: JonClarke Dec 28 2006, 01:04 AM

Glad that Bagnold meets with approval However, if past missions are a guide, it will be called "Inspiration" or some such, chosen by a 10 year old in the boondocks.

I don't know how MSL will go over sand. The critical issue is ground pressure. One Bagnold anecdote illustrates this. In his early traverses of the Great Sand Sea he discovered that 2 wheel drive vehicles were often superior in their ability to cross sand to their 4WD equivalents because of their lower weight. Does anyone know what the ground presure of MSL is compared to a MER?

I note with great respect MahFL's grandfather. The LRDG were legendary.

Jon

Posted by: lyford Dec 28 2006, 08:25 PM

RALPH (Roving Analytic Laboratory Pursuing Hydrocarbons)

Though the New Horizons folks might get a bit miffed....

Posted by: nprev Dec 28 2006, 08:45 PM

Ambulatory Laboratory for In-situ Carbon Compound Examination (ALICCE)...?

Posted by: Bob Shaw Dec 28 2006, 11:34 PM

I still get worried about semi-intelligent rovers with the 'ATHENA' brand. Read Arthur C Clarke's 'Lost Worlds of 2001' and you'll see why! Oh, and the original Shuttle five on-board computers were called HAL, were they not (designed to be faultless). Asking for trouble, I'd say...


Bob Shaw

Posted by: nprev Dec 28 2006, 11:45 PM

Carbon And Regolith Laboratory/Semi-Autonomous Ground Ambulator-Navigator?

Posted by: JonClarke Dec 29 2006, 12:11 AM

Love it!!!!

Posted by: ustrax Dec 29 2006, 04:42 PM

I would go for a more general name like Spirit and Opportunity that, at a same time, would pay tribute to those who live in our North Pole and who were, probably, the first ones to reach it.
I would go for an Inuit word: Ilitsijaqturvik (Which, of course, could be reduced to Ili, or Ilitsi...or Ilitsija...a female name for a vessel...) that means a place to go and learn...

Posted by: tty Dec 29 2006, 06:55 PM

Basic Ambulatory Robot Seeking Out Organic Molecules?

tty

Posted by: ustrax Dec 29 2006, 10:56 PM

Aaaarghhh!!!

This was a suggestion for Phoenix!!!
Let me think a bit about MSL...but I believe that knowing where she's going to land would help a lot...

Posted by: ustrax Dec 30 2006, 04:41 PM

MSL?...
Michelle, no doubt about it... [MiSheLle for the purists...)
http://www.televize.cz/images/fotografie/TVRevue/2006/6/27-28/551.jpg

EDITED: Hey! This was my 1001st post (where's the 1000? )! And...incredibly...I didn't mention an abyss!!!
This deserves a prize Doug!

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jan 1 2007, 12:28 AM

I perfer no name other than the project name. MSL is fine with me. The rovers on Mars are still MER A & B to me. SIRTF vs Spitzer etc

Posted by: nprev Jan 1 2007, 02:54 AM

I can dig it, Jim...but there are two excellent reasons to name major missions:

1. Public outreach. This is something that NASA has consistently underestimated in significance, but they're getting hip- no bucks, no Buck Rogers. While aficionados like myself & professionals like you may prefer functional nomenclature for its brevity & precision, the press likes sound bites, the catchier & easier the better. Sad fact of life, man.

2. History/heraldry. UMSF is making major tracks in the history books. Hopefully, its contributions will be recognized as even more important over the next few hundred years as we (hopefully) expand human presence throughout the Solar System. Therefore, it is entirely appropriate to name these robotic pioneers after the human pioneers that laid the foundation for these critical voyages, or the ideals/concepts that represent the best of our collective human spirit.

Posted by: centsworth_II Jan 1 2007, 06:11 PM

Ms. L sounds good. A bit of mystery to it. Or how about The Divine Ms. L?

Posted by: monitorlizard Jan 1 2007, 07:38 PM

Are you saying MSL is a Midler-sized rover?

Posted by: nprev Jan 1 2007, 08:53 PM

Congratulations on the worst pun of 2007 thus far...

Posted by: Bob Shaw Jan 1 2007, 10:36 PM

It's still only 1st January, so that honour may be snatched away fairly quickly. Hmmm... ...perhaps it's time for another pool!


Bob Shaw

Posted by: Ant103 Feb 14 2007, 04:12 PM

I think to "Hope" for MSL naming. It's a hope for our : detecting life evidences. Imagine if nothing is not discover... It could be possible the no robot will be launch toward Mars (as after Viking mission : about 20 years before recover the contact of Mars ground).

Posted by: Zvezdichko Feb 14 2007, 04:30 PM

We already had one Hope - JAXA's Nozomi.

Posted by: Geographer Jun 21 2007, 09:55 AM

How about Feynman? I always enjoyed his book, Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman. His connection to the space program was his brilliant maverick work investigating the Challenger disaster.

Posted by: dvandorn Jun 21 2007, 04:08 PM

I would actually prefer MSL be named after a ship that engaged in a great voyage of exploration. I know we're running through those names at a fast clip with the Meridiani crater naming conventions, but there still ought to be some left that would work.

Heck, if you don't mind re-using names, there's always 'Challenger'... and 'Beagle' would be nice, if ESA could be convinced not to pitch a fit about it...

-the other Doug

Posted by: Stu Jun 21 2007, 04:23 PM

Not a chance of it being used, but "Serenity" sure has a nice ring to it...

Mal: We're still flying.
Simon: That's not much.
Mal: It's enough

Posted by: djellison Jun 21 2007, 05:08 PM

They can call it BunwhacketbuzzardstoppingQWalrusTitty for all I care - as long as it works

Doug

Posted by: Stu Jun 21 2007, 06:24 PM

Sometimes Doug the workings of your mind absolutely terrify me...!!!

The whole naming thing tho... quite important I think, especially for a high profile mission such as MSL is destined to be. I had my doubts about "Spirit" and "Opportunity" when they were chosen, but they've grown on me over the years, and I can't imagine our two brave gals being called anything else now... but MSL is a bigger, bolder beast, with a longer lifespan and a more - hmmm, hesitate to use the word - "romantic" mission, so I think it should be named accordingly.

Having said that, I've absolutely no idea what that name could be.

Posted by: djellison Jun 21 2007, 07:12 PM

I see you need to be taught in the ways of Python..

Frankly - when the rover is that big, and has a laser beam....it gets called whatever it WANTS to be called

Doug

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 21 2007, 07:19 PM

They've grown on me, too, like mildew. I love MER but I still hate those two names


I can: the two names I suggested

Posted by: Stu Jun 21 2007, 07:19 PM

Funny you should mention Python... I was talking to one of the other carers at the care home where I work yesterday - she's only 19 bless her - about fave films etc, and mentioned "Holy Grail"... she said she'd never seen it, so I offered to lend it to her. "Who's in it?" she asked. "Well, it's a Monty Python film..." I said, thinking that should give her a clue as to the cast list.

"Oh, well, I don't really know who he was..." she replied...

Posted by: djellison Jun 21 2007, 07:21 PM

Look - I've said it 1000 times, Rocky and Bullwinkle are copyrighted. Give it up!

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 21 2007, 08:14 PM

Actually, I prefer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peabody_%26_Sherman.

Posted by: nprev Jun 21 2007, 10:58 PM

Based on MSL's monster-truck-like aspects, I'm thinking "Marsasaurus"...

Posted by: dvandorn Jun 22 2007, 12:20 AM

It will only be given a name like *that* if they give the naming rights to Monty Python...

-the other Doug

edit -- serves me right for responding to a post at the bottom of a page before looking at the next page...

Posted by: dvandorn Jun 22 2007, 12:27 AM

Now, opening up the Rocky and Bullwinkle universe for naming gives you *tons* of possibilities.

For example -- for a pair of spacecraft, Boris and Natasha would work quite well. For a single spacecraft, you could anything from Peter Peachfuzz to Fearless Leader -- or even the enigmatic "J." And, of course, a high-latitude landing site would be Frostbite Falls.

And what would the mission be? Well, it's obvious -- "Follow the Upsydasium!"



-the other Doug

"Hey, Rocky -- watch me pull phyllosilicate clays out of my hat!"

Posted by: djellison Jun 22 2007, 07:27 AM

'Crushinator' could be good.

Posted by: AndyG Jun 22 2007, 08:15 AM

You beat me to it. But as long as it doesn't act like Malfunctioning Eddie, I'll be happy.

Andy

Posted by: algorimancer Jun 22 2007, 01:23 PM

I'd back Serenity or Heinlein or Feynman as names. Let me throw in "Zoidberg". Space exploration can be fun too

Unfortunately they'll probably end up letting some kid who thinks Mars is a candy bar pick some lame name, probably after one of the Teletubbies

Posted by: centsworth_II Jun 22 2007, 02:40 PM

I guess Bigfoot is taken.

Posted by: hendric Jun 22 2007, 03:14 PM

Oh come on, that's not fair at all. Having a contest to name a Mars rover is, more than likely, going to automatically eliminate kids who "think Mars is a candy bar". After all, a kid with the initiative to goto nasa.gov or planetary.org is way ahead of the curve. I think the last kid to name Mars rovers did a fantastic job, and was very prophetic with the names. Just think of the names for a second:

Spirit

Opportunity

What better names could we choose for these two? Spirit, that had to fight wheel and solar panel up a mountain to find evidence of water? Opportunity, which found not one, not two, but three craters with outcrops and blueberries?

(Shoot, I get teary-eyed just thinking about all they've done and survived so far.)

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 22 2007, 06:07 PM

How about Ark III?

Of course, fans of 1970s TV will recall the six-wheeled mobile laboratory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_II.

Posted by: centsworth_II Jun 23 2007, 05:37 AM

Yikes! Makes me think of MSL as host to a menagerie
of Earthly microbes. Don't like the sound of that.

Posted by: MarsIsImportant Jun 24 2007, 01:53 AM

After seeing the size of the rover scarecrow, it should have a large instrument package on top when it lands (let's hope it is all there after it lands). The rover team should have a lot of fun with all those gadgets. Since its mission will be scientific analysis, I propose to name the Mars rover, "Inspector".

Posted by: elakdawalla Jun 24 2007, 02:01 AM

As in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_Gadget?

(That's what I think of.)

"Go-go, gadget Chemistry & Mineralogy X-Ray Diffraction/X-Ray Fluorescence Instrument!"

--Emily

Posted by: punkboi Jun 24 2007, 03:06 AM

"Dumb" and "Dumber" would've been a good name if both MERs didn't land safely on the red planet.

Or "Itchy and Scratchy" if you want to honor The Simpsons...

"Big Bertha" is my choice for MSL...in honor of the giant howitzer used by the, um, Germans in WWI, the line of golf clubs...and that lady wrestler who pummeled Al Bundy in one episode of "Married with Children." It's been gone for 10 years and I still love watching reruns of that TV show.

Posted by: monty python Jun 24 2007, 04:59 AM

Even though Married With Children IS one of the greatest shows ever made, it can't be Big Bertha. A large rock at a previous lander location had its name changed from big bertha to big joe because the former was seen as sexist.

Perhaps a two word name; the first being an innocuous human name and the second some kind of snake representing the long set of wheel tracks it leaves.

Posted by: TheChemist Jun 24 2007, 12:39 PM

Probably MSL will end up being called something poetic, like Hope, Prosperity or Peace
As you may have guessed, I'm in the Alex Blackwell camp on this.
Would not it be more fun to have named the MERs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosencrantz_&_Guildenstern_Are_Dead ??

Posted by: lyford Jun 24 2007, 05:19 PM

How about the Dakota-Sioux word for "Great" or "Big":

TONKA!

Well, we already had a Lego tie in with MER... and what other metaphor is appropriate for all those engineers playing the the sandbox with their big toys?

Besides - (with all due respect to the Phoenix mission) Isn't this a scoop truly worthy of Mars?

Posted by: helvick Jun 24 2007, 05:24 PM

I love it! Tonka is easily the best name suggestion yet.

Posted by: nprev Jun 24 2007, 06:27 PM

...it's too perfect, so of course it won't be used (though Tonka Toys would probably go out of their minds with joy if it was!)

Posted by: punkboi Jun 24 2007, 07:15 PM

How 'bout obscure sci-fi movie references?

"Armadillo" in honor of that vehicle in the movie Armageddon?

Or "Juggernaut" in honor of the clone tanks in Star Wars: Episode III?

Posted by: Stu Jun 24 2007, 07:46 PM

And have to listen to Peter Kay singing that ****** song every day?!!?!?

Oh sorry, thought you said "Amarillo"...

Posted by: mchan Jun 25 2007, 06:30 AM

Gee, if people are starting to put in sci-fi references, here are my tosses into the ring --

Killdozer (Theodore Sturgeon novella, later TV-movie)
Bolo (Keith Laumer and others)

(Violent allusions, yes, but the images of a Mini-Cooper sized robot rolling around zapping rocks with its ChemCam laser struck me as being pretty fearsome. Good think it can't roll as fast as people can run.)

Posted by: dvandorn Jun 25 2007, 02:09 PM

Well, heck -- if we're talking about a rolling robot with a death ray that can't roll as fast as people run away from it, might as well go all the way and name the thing "Dalek."



-the other Doug

Posted by: akuo Jun 25 2007, 02:20 PM

How about http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/?

Posted by: centsworth_II Jun 25 2007, 03:27 PM

I liked Tonka, but if you're looking for something more edgy, but
still with a toy tie in, how about Transfo -- short for transformer --
as MSL will assuredly transform our knowledge about Mars... again!

Posted by: TheChemist Jun 25 2007, 03:52 PM

The http://coral.lili.uni-bielefeld.de/Classes/Summer97/SemGS/WebLex/OldPossum/oldpossumlex/node2.html is a difficult matter,
It isn't just one of your holiday games;
You may think at first I'm mad as a hatter
When I tell you a space probe must have three
different names. ....

Posted by: centsworth_II Jun 25 2007, 04:33 PM

So.... Tonka Peabody BunwhacketbuzzardstoppingQWalrusTitty?

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Jun 25 2007, 04:52 PM

Well if we are considering fictional vehicles, there's always "http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000096IAH.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg" or "http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/518GHK561RL._SS500_.jpg" or my favorites http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/516T9C75N8L._SS500_.jpg

Posted by: dvandorn Jun 25 2007, 05:04 PM

Ah, but if you were to name MSL the Hannibal 8, after it went about 90 meters the engine would fall out!

"Push the button, Max!"

-the other Doug

p.s. -- if MSL finds Natalie Wood wearing a merry widow, though, just *think* what that could do for Mars exploration funding!

Posted by: lyford Jun 26 2007, 04:04 AM

OGRE?!?!? Push the button, Max?!?!?!" MSL Limericks?

God help me but I love this board - chatter and all!

Posted by: dvandorn Jun 26 2007, 04:19 AM

OK, well -- it wouldn't be much of an improvement over Mars Science Lander, but we could always call it Mars Gravity Probe 1...

(10 points for anyone who can identify where *that* reference comes from... )

-the other Doug

Posted by: lyford Jun 26 2007, 05:19 AM

Hmmm, wouldhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_Crusoe_on_Marsbe involved in that somehow?

Can I start saving up those points to go towards buying Phil's book? Any more on this and I think the mods will have to move this thread to EVA:Chit Chat instead of MSL 2009.

Posted by: akuo Jun 26 2007, 07:28 AM

Or we can go the http://www.saunalahti.fi/~mjhuur1/projects/banks/ships.html. Some examples:

MSL Nervous Energy
MSL No More Mr Nice Guy
MSL Profit Margin
MSL Of Course I Still Love You
MSL Youthful Indiscretion
MSL Big Sexy Beast
MSL Funny, It Worked Last Time...
MSL Gray Area
MSL Zero Gravitas
MSL Size Isn't Everything

Posted by: algorimancer Jun 26 2007, 04:59 PM

Of course, Banks would have MSL choose its own name