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ExoMars
nprev
post Feb 8 2013, 01:19 AM
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Let's see: An EDM mission with:

1. No EDL comm.

2. No solar power or other long-lived source.

3. No ability to conduct endurance testing of surface mobility technology & instrumentation.

Not to be too critical, but if if the objective is merely to demonstrate the ability to hit Mars with something I can offer some MUCH less expensive design solutions than a rover.



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Explorer1
post Feb 8 2013, 01:29 AM
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I believe this is just the stationary lander, not the rover having these shortcomings.
Even so, I'm getting serious flashbacks of the last European Mars landing attempt....
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Paolo
post Feb 8 2013, 08:04 AM
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QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 8 2013, 02:19 AM) *
Let's see: An EDM mission with:

1. No EDL comm.

2. No solar power or other long-lived source.

3. No ability to conduct endurance testing of surface mobility technology & instrumentation.


for a pure EDL demonstration mission with limited science, 2 or 3 are not limitations. 1 surely is
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machi
post Feb 8 2013, 04:01 PM
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According to source from CSO (Czech Space Office), EDM will be communicating during EDL phase with TGO and possibly another available orbiters.


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nprev
post Feb 9 2013, 01:33 AM
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I'm just sayin' it's a terrible waste of a great opportunity. Understand the perils of requirement creep all too well, but going too far the other way begins to jeopardize the system's utility and therefore funding justification as well. There's always a sweet spot (and, yes, it's admittedly hard to find.)


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ElkGroveDan
post Feb 9 2013, 03:40 AM
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QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 7 2013, 05:19 PM) *
1. No EDL comm.
2. No solar power or other long-lived source.
3. No ability to conduct endurance testing of surface mobility technology & instrumentation.


There's already a low-cost, off-the-shelf EDL device suitable for that kind of mission.
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nprev
post Feb 9 2013, 07:50 AM
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Yep. Just need a MUCH bigger parachute... tongue.gif


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PaulM
post Feb 9 2013, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 9 2013, 01:33 AM) *
I'm just sayin' it's a terrible waste of a great opportunity. Understand the perils of requirement creep all too well, but going too far the other way begins to jeopardize the system's utility and therefore funding justification as well. There's always a sweet spot (and, yes, it's admittedly hard to find.)

I would like the Exomars EDM lander to be equipped with a seismometer. Insight is being launched at the same time and equipping a separate lander with a seismometer would allow the location of Mars quakes to be determined.
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Paolo
post Feb 9 2013, 10:10 AM
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QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Feb 9 2013, 04:40 AM) *
There's already a low-cost, off-the-shelf EDL device suitable for that kind of mission.


time for the admins to move their own posts to the Kitchen Junk Drawer topic? wink.gif
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Phil Stooke
post Feb 9 2013, 02:27 PM
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PaulM - for an operation period of a few days that is not feasible. Also, even for a longer mission, this landing system does not guarantee any kind of useful coupling to the ground - so any movements may be caused by wind or vibration (i.e moving an antenna) rather than seismic activity. So good idea but not for this mission.

Phil



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vjkane
post Feb 9 2013, 04:32 PM
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The ExoMars program was originally conceived as a technology development program that morphed into two science missions plus this technology lander. I don't know if ESA has plans to reuse the EDL lander for missions like Inspire, or if this has just hung on as part of the funding/spending balancing act that ESA programs have to do.

Anyone know if the Inspire mission proposes to reuse this design?


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stone
post Feb 9 2013, 05:41 PM
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The whole thing on this technical mission was to aquire the technical abilities to land on another planet and use this knowledge for later missions.
The EDL design of 2016 together with alot of enineering help will be handed over to Russia to built the 2018 Lander.
This is what the Russians get for the two Protons they give for the project. In the end they will be able to soft land on Mars on their own.

The US are very restrictive on exacly this knowlege. Even after NASA and ESA cooperate in ExoMars and a NASA facility made some tests on the reentry on Mars it was not possible to get the data directly from the US. This makes it very clear that landing abilities have to be aquired by ESA itself.
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stone
post Feb 9 2013, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (PaulM @ Feb 9 2013, 10:42 AM) *
I would like the Exomars EDM lander to be equipped with a seismometer.


It is very unclear on how long the lander will live. The ESA only lander (before Roscosmos joined) was living a few days on batteries only, no solar panels. This was done save money for operations. There was no technical reason to do that but EGU 2012 there was a meeting and there a ESA representative said that there is no money for operating a long lived lander. This did also not chnange after NASA joined the project or NASA lft the project.

When the Russians joined possibilities for the 2016 lander were discussed like a weather station or other long living things. This was anounced to be powered by a radio thermal generator from Russia. After some time there was in the news an anouncement that the export regulations make a so short notice export impossible. A russian scientist told me that he thinks they are most likely not able to procure a RTG until the 2016 launch.

The landing platform of the 2018 rover is still in planning and there is also a possible payload. The chance that there will be a lot of mass available there is unkown to me. But if Russia wants to built something and mass is availabe we will have a chance for a seismometer or weatherstaion.

Most things are still in planning stage and have not even reached the ExoMars community itself so lets wait for the ESWT5 next week for a update on the mission.
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machi
post Feb 10 2013, 08:51 PM
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Directly from TGO site:

After separation, the Orbiter will monitor the UHF transmission from the EDM from its coasting to Mars till its landing. A NASA Relay Orbiter will act as a data relay for the EDM during its surface operations. Furthermore, ground-based communication arrays will also track the UHF signal during the entry, descent and landing phases.


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stone
post Feb 10 2013, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE (machi @ Feb 10 2013, 09:51 PM) *
TGO site


last updated
04 Sep 2012
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