IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Ranger, Surveyor, Luna, Luna Orbiter, 1960s Missions to Earth's Moon
Bob Shaw
post Apr 21 2005, 08:07 PM
Post #1


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2488
Joined: 17-April 05
From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Member No.: 239



Have any of the serious experts on this board ever sorted out any 1960s images? I'm thinking of the Surveyor panoramas (in the 60s they did it with photos pasted onto the inside of half-spheres!) and the way that the exposure dropped off toward one corner, making a horrible patchwork effect. Or them lines and spots on the Lunar Orbiter images...

Most of the NASA mission data should be available as digital source material, and thus could be manipulated, though I suspect that getting anything 'real' from Soviet missions would be a bit of a chase!

Any thoughts?


--------------------
Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Apr 24 2005, 09:59 AM
Post #2





Guests






QUOTE (edstrick @ Apr 24 2005, 08:07 AM)
Good additional info there.  I'm pretty sure I've heard the bit on the Surveyor 1 descent camera both ways, so I'm not sure of the real story. 

*


The Shadow Knows! (Pause for deep, chilling laughter.)

Aviation Week, March 28, 1966: "One result of conservative mission planning ws a decision not to use the approach TV camera aboard SC-1 [Surveyor-1]. The camera, built by Hughes around a General Electrodynamics vidicon tube, was to have taken as many as 100 pictures of the Moon'surface from between 1000 to 80 miles above the surfce, just before ignition of the spacecrft's main retrorocket.

"Use of the approach camera was deleted from the first Surveyor mission even before the problems wih the planar array high-gain antenna wer discovered. [This is a reference to the previous section of the article, which refers to a problem discovered with the pointing motors on the solar panel and antenna at low temperatures -- leading to a change in their design starting with Surveyor 2.]

"It was felt that the use of the approach camera would introduce risky complications during the terminal descent phase of the mission, according to S.C. Shallon, chief Surveyor program scientist for Hughes. Transmission of the 600-line frames would have required additional commands -- needed to maneuver the spacecraft, aim the planar array high-gain antenna at Earth and activate the camera.

"Another reason was that the transmission of blocks of pictures would produce blank spots in the spacecraft telemetry record at a critical time.

"Doubts about the ability of the A/SPP polar axis [motor] to position the planar array on command cemented the decision not to use the approach TV. This is because the center of gravity of the spcecraft during the critical main retrorocket firing phase must be determined before launch, based on the planned position of the solar panel and planar array at the time of rocket ignition. This determines the placement of the 8700-pound thrust solid-propellant retromotor within the aluminum frame.

"Failure of the polar axis to orient the planar array to its programmed position could have disastrous effects upon the stability of the spacecraft during retro-firing...

"Hughes is proceeding with S-2, 3 and 4 as if the high-gain antenna will be aimed at the Earth in the pre-terminal phase and approach TV will be used. However, the decision to use the camera will not be made until after SC-1 performance is analyzed. [I never saw anything suggesting that they'd decided to use it on Surveyor 2. By the way, the failure of the attempt to turn it on for a test after landing on Surveyor 1 was due to the fact that they only tried this after Surveyor 1 had survived its first lunar night, during which it underwent serious battery damage from the cold. For the same reason, an attempt to briefly burp its vernier rockets to study the effect on the surface failed; that test had to be delayed until Surveyor 5, since the walls of the crater in which Surveyor 3 landed made it overheat and they had to quickly vent the verniers' helium.]

"Even if the approach TV is not used on later missions, it is possible that the planar array still may be aimed at Earth during the pre-terminal phase and used with the high-power transmitter to increase the telemetry transmission at that time to 4400 bits/second from the 1100 bits/sec. that is possible using one of the two omnidirectional antennas. [They never actually did.]

"However, transmission would still be switched to an omniantenna after main retromotor burnout, because it is expected that during the final vernier engine descent phase, in the last 2-2.5 minutes before landing, the high-gain antenna would probably become pointed away from the Earth."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Bob Shaw   Ranger, Surveyor, Luna, Luna Orbiter   Apr 21 2005, 08:07 PM
- - Phil Stooke   What a coincidence that you should ask this questi...   Apr 21 2005, 08:43 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Phil: Terrific! I don't suppose there ar...   Apr 21 2005, 08:53 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Apr 21 2005, 03:53 PM)Phil:...   Apr 22 2005, 09:07 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I will post some Surveyor stuff when I have time. ...   Apr 22 2005, 03:50 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Phil: Very, very interesting - and the 'work ...   Apr 22 2005, 07:28 PM
- - Phil Stooke   No! I have to leave something for other folks...   Apr 22 2005, 08:27 PM
- - ilbasso   Absolutely brilliant work, Phil! I'll be ...   Apr 22 2005, 09:45 PM
|- - 4th rock from the sun   Very good Phil!!! Can you tell us the...   Apr 22 2005, 11:35 PM
- - Phil Stooke   The Surveyor pans are 360 wide, though a hardware ...   Apr 23 2005, 01:38 PM
- - Phil Stooke   The Surveyor pans are 360 wide, though a hardware ...   Apr 23 2005, 01:40 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   As I understand it, another factor behind not usin...   Apr 23 2005, 03:25 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Bruce, the main purpose of the descent camera, of ...   Apr 23 2005, 04:08 PM
- - ilbasso   As for fascinating and beautiful vistas, I also ha...   Apr 23 2005, 07:28 PM
- - edstrick   Surveyor 1 was not expected to land. The prefligh...   Apr 23 2005, 08:50 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   It was the Surveyor I landing which hooked me for ...   Apr 23 2005, 09:10 PM
|- - tedstryk   I imagine some 3-D data could be reconstructed for...   Apr 24 2005, 12:17 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Space History Geek Time: (1) Phil Stooke has got...   Apr 24 2005, 12:44 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 23 2005, 07:44 PM)(3...   Apr 24 2005, 06:57 AM
- - Phil Stooke   It would not be possible to locate Surveyor 4 with...   Apr 24 2005, 03:36 AM
- - edstrick   Good additional info there. I'm pretty sure I...   Apr 24 2005, 08:07 AM
|- - gndonald   QUOTE (edstrick @ Apr 24 2005, 04:07 PM) ...   Nov 5 2006, 09:04 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yep -- I first ran across that series in 1971 at t...   Apr 24 2005, 09:37 AM
- - edstrick   Interesting!.... The Surveyor cameras were an...   Apr 24 2005, 09:45 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (edstrick @ Apr 24 2005, 08:07 AM)Good ...   Apr 24 2005, 09:59 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   By the way, that JPL series on their projects (sev...   Apr 24 2005, 10:01 AM
- - edstrick   Ah!... an article from Aviation "Leak...   Apr 24 2005, 11:07 AM
- - PhilHorzempa   [size=2] To continue this discussion of Sur...   Apr 24 2006, 09:05 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Another Phil: Yes; that's how the samples wer...   Apr 24 2006, 09:42 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I've got quite a bit more in the way of detail...   Apr 24 2006, 10:52 PM
- - edstrick   One other distinction I remember reading about the...   Apr 25 2006, 05:15 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   Bruce: Last year you mentioned, more or less in p...   Apr 25 2006, 03:16 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I didn't know that. It is a fact, though, tha...   Apr 25 2006, 05:54 AM
- - edstrick   I could be wrong on that.. I'm working from fa...   Apr 25 2006, 10:47 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   It was an Aviation Week issue all the way back fro...   Apr 25 2006, 09:42 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Bruce: Thanks! Sometime soon I hope to have m...   Apr 25 2006, 10:03 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   While I'm at the library (whenever I do finall...   Apr 25 2006, 10:54 PM
- - PhilHorzempa   I want to comment on a memo that I saw in the NASA...   May 1 2006, 03:08 AM
- - dvandorn   Well... all I can tell you is that I've proba...   May 1 2006, 04:09 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Gadfry! That's a completely new one on me...   May 1 2006, 08:52 AM
- - ljk4-1   For those of you who may be in the Washington, D.C...   May 1 2006, 02:35 PM
- - PhilHorzempa   Concerning the plan for the LMSS, I may have a pho...   May 1 2006, 08:52 PM
- - PhilCo126   Spacecraftfilms.com is planning a DVD-set of ...   May 4 2006, 08:20 AM
- - ljk4-1   There was an earlier request for an image of the o...   May 19 2006, 04:27 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   That drawing of Surveyor in a 1962 issue of ...   May 20 2006, 04:16 PM
- - PhilHorzempa   I've been thinking lately that it would be nea...   May 26 2006, 03:43 AM
- - ljk4-1   Fortieth anniversary time of the launch and landin...   Jun 1 2006, 04:22 AM
- - ljk4-1   Mike Dinn, who in 1966 worked on the Surveyor 1 mi...   Jun 1 2006, 01:44 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jun 1 2006, 02:44 PM...   Jun 1 2006, 01:52 PM
- - edstrick   Block 4 was to include more block 2 type retro-roc...   Nov 6 2006, 10:51 AM
|- - gndonald   QUOTE (edstrick @ Nov 6 2006, 06:51 PM) B...   Nov 8 2006, 02:32 PM
- - Phil Stooke   According to: http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4210/pag...   Nov 8 2006, 04:22 PM
- - dvandorn   There were two reasons why the Ranger series was a...   Nov 9 2006, 12:03 AM


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25th April 2024 - 03:40 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.