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2003 Ub 313: The Incredible Shrinking Planet?, No bigger than Pluto?
Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Jan 31 2006, 09:20 PM
Post #1





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(Thanks to Emily Lakdawalla):

http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2006/127/1
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Guest_JamesFox_*
post Apr 12 2006, 01:37 PM
Post #2





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When I read that blog by Robert Roy Britt, I noticed the he acts as if it's a proven scientific fact that Pluto and 2003 UB313 are not planets, but the only reason he gives is that the 8 other planets have low inclination, as opposed to high ones. He also ignores (like most others), the fact that the term minor planet is already in use.

Many of those objecting to Pluto's status also seem to act as if the whole purpose of defining a planet is to provide a list for schoolchildren. In doing so, they tend to automatically ignore extrasolar planets - some even go so far as to declare that planets must orbit our sun (or even worse, insist that they must orbit at Neptune's distance or closer!) . They then compile lists of attributes that separate Xena and Pluto from the other 8, and use them to make anti-Kuiper belt planet definitions.

The inclination argument is one I've seen before. For example, I remember seeing a nice chart of inclination versus mass that seems to boost the anti-pluto case. However, a number of large extrasolar planets have very high eccentricities, even crossing the orbits of other planets in thier systems. Although their inclinations are unknown, it seems likely that some of them have high inclinations. In addition, would there be some sort of rule against having Pluto in a Quaoar-like orbit? Perhaps something like this exists in some extrasolar system.

I suspect that many people simply don't like Pluto or Xena, and feel that they are too small and wierd to be included alonside Mars or the Earth. So definitions are invented to exclude them, in an attempt to pretend that they are not being arbitary. Ignoring extrasolar planets makes this easier. When you look at these definitions more closely, however, hard boundaries and classifications are revealed as just as arbitrary as a lower size limit.

In the end, planets are largeish, round, and do not orbit planets seems to be the only general (if vague) definition in common use, before people started to try to kick Pluto out of the club. Since there is, in my opinion, no accepted scientific definition, a formal planet definiton should take the previous into account.

Also, we have to deal with the minor planet issue.
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- BruceMoomaw   2003 Ub 313: The Incredible Shrinking Planet?   Jan 31 2006, 09:20 PM
- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jan 31 2006, 01:20 PM)(T...   Jan 31 2006, 09:36 PM
|- - SFJCody   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Jan 31 2006, 09:36 PM)Ac...   Feb 1 2006, 12:19 AM
||- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (SFJCody @ Jan 31 2006, 06:19 PM)There...   Feb 1 2006, 02:12 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Jan 31 2006, 09:36 PM)Si...   Feb 1 2006, 05:48 PM
|- - JRehling   Incidentally, don't forget that Pluto "sh...   Feb 1 2006, 07:17 PM
|- - TritonAntares   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 1 2006, 09:17 PM)Incide...   Feb 2 2006, 12:27 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (TritonAntares @ Feb 2 2006, 06:27 AM)A...   Feb 3 2006, 07:18 PM
||- - ljk4-1   For what this is worth, Sky & Telescope is now...   Feb 10 2006, 04:52 PM
|- - angel1801   QUOTE (TritonAntares @ Feb 2 2006, 09:57 ...   Apr 12 2006, 02:01 PM
|- - Planet X   QUOTE (angel1801 @ Apr 12 2006, 09:01 AM)...   Apr 12 2006, 04:48 PM
- - MichaelT   I just read that the Max-Planck-Institute for Radi...   Feb 1 2006, 10:32 AM
- - SigurRosFan   Here's the detailed press release: - http://w...   Feb 1 2006, 01:19 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (SigurRosFan @ Feb 1 2006, 01:19 PM)Her...   Feb 1 2006, 01:34 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (SigurRosFan @ Feb 1 2006, 07:19 AM)A j...   Feb 1 2006, 02:46 PM
- - Big_Gazza   I have heard a rumour that one of the Mormons secr...   Feb 3 2006, 11:01 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (Big_Gazza @ Feb 3 2006, 12:01 PM)I hav...   Feb 3 2006, 01:24 PM
||- - AndyG   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Feb 3 2006, 01:24 PM)Do you...   Feb 3 2006, 03:35 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Big_Gazza @ Feb 3 2006, 03:01 AM)I hav...   Feb 10 2006, 05:50 PM
||- - punkboi   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 10 2006, 10:50 AM)http:...   Feb 10 2006, 05:54 PM
||- - Katie   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 10 2006, 10:50 AM)http:...   Feb 11 2006, 08:30 AM
||- - ljk4-1   I like the idea that when you die you get to evolv...   Feb 11 2006, 07:12 PM
||- - ljk4-1   Looks a lot like Europa! UB 313: Larger t...   Feb 11 2006, 09:53 PM
|||- - David   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Feb 11 2006, 09:53 P...   Feb 12 2006, 03:48 PM
||- - tty   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Feb 11 2006, 08:12 P...   Feb 12 2006, 07:31 PM
|- - Katie   QUOTE (Big_Gazza @ Feb 3 2006, 03:01 AM) ...   Feb 13 2006, 04:06 AM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Katie @ Feb 12 2006, 11:06 PM) Bei...   Feb 13 2006, 04:55 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Feb 13 2006, 04:55 A...   Feb 13 2006, 12:05 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Big_Gazza @ Feb 3 2006, 11:01 AM)I hav...   Feb 11 2006, 08:56 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   If they declare Pluto a planet but 2003 UB313 a no...   Feb 12 2006, 06:08 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Actually, it's kind of flattering that the Gre...   Feb 13 2006, 11:37 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 13 2006, 11:37 P...   Feb 14 2006, 08:57 AM
- - edstrick   "I can't believe I ate the ***WHOLE*** TH...   Feb 14 2006, 10:41 AM
- - dvandorn   Personally, I'd be more worried about your stu...   Feb 14 2006, 03:34 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Feb 14 2006, 08:57 AM) ...   Feb 14 2006, 10:07 PM
|- - SFJCody   Brown to discuss 'Xena' discovery http://...   Feb 19 2006, 12:34 PM
|- - SFJCody   Amateurs spot 10th planet http://www.spaceflightno...   Feb 21 2006, 10:22 AM
|- - SFJCody   The IAU will publish beginning of September 2006 t...   Mar 4 2006, 10:27 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Dear God, I hope they don't decide that Pluto ...   Mar 4 2006, 10:48 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 4 2006, 10:48 PM...   Mar 4 2006, 10:58 PM
|- - SFJCody   No news for a while, which is kind of a shame. I h...   Mar 19 2006, 10:42 PM
- - Rob Pinnegar   Well, it's only been a month or so since the l...   Mar 20 2006, 05:09 PM
|- - SFJCody   UPDATE! http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/pl...   Apr 11 2006, 05:45 PM
- - ljk4-1   FOR RELEASE: 1:00 pm (EDT) April 11, 2006 Erica ...   Apr 11 2006, 06:08 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Robert Roy Britt, in his blog on this subject ( ht...   Apr 12 2006, 12:09 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 12 2006, 01:09 A...   Apr 12 2006, 12:31 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 12 2006, 12:09 A...   Apr 12 2006, 01:22 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 12 2006, 12:09 A...   Apr 12 2006, 03:37 AM
- - nprev   The IAU & everyone else has to face up to one ...   Apr 12 2006, 03:41 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (nprev @ Apr 12 2006, 03:41 AM) Wel...   Apr 12 2006, 04:45 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (nprev @ Apr 12 2006, 03:41 AM) The...   Apr 12 2006, 08:28 AM
|- - AndyG   QUOTE (nprev @ Apr 12 2006, 04:41 AM) Def...   Apr 12 2006, 01:46 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I remain convinced of what I said in 1999: if you ...   Apr 12 2006, 04:51 AM
- - Betelgeuze   QUOTE The problem is that it's easy to say tha...   Apr 12 2006, 05:15 AM
|- - Jyril   PSR 1257+12 B and C are a few times more massive t...   Apr 12 2006, 05:45 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (Jyril @ Apr 12 2006, 05:45 AM) PSR...   Apr 12 2006, 06:05 AM
|- - Jyril   It's the mass that dominates. Even the least m...   Apr 12 2006, 08:16 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Stephen @ Apr 12 2006, 06:05 AM) I...   Apr 14 2006, 04:28 AM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Apr 14 2006, 04:28 AM) ...   Apr 14 2006, 07:21 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 14 2006, 07:21 P...   Apr 14 2006, 08:18 PM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (David @ Apr 14 2006, 08:18 PM) But...   Apr 17 2006, 06:45 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 17 2006, 06:45 P...   Apr 17 2006, 07:17 PM
|- - JRehling   As if this issue hadn't already been faced on ...   Apr 17 2006, 07:59 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (JRehling @ Apr 17 2006, 01:59 PM) ...   Apr 17 2006, 08:45 PM
- - edstrick   ....it was good enough for Zaljyx, and it's go...   Apr 12 2006, 09:31 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (edstrick @ Apr 12 2006, 09:31 AM) ...   Apr 13 2006, 07:46 PM
- - Decepticon   Here is a image comparison... http://www.nasa.gov/...   Apr 12 2006, 01:24 PM
- - JamesFox   When I read that blog by Robert Roy Britt, I notic...   Apr 12 2006, 01:37 PM
- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0604245 From: Mi...   Apr 12 2006, 06:08 PM
- - ljk4-1   Tenth planet as bright as fresh snow It is only s...   Apr 12 2006, 09:37 PM
- - edstrick   "Don't care what the latest rage is...Gim...   Apr 14 2006, 09:50 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (edstrick @ Apr 14 2006, 10:50 AM) ...   Apr 14 2006, 11:51 AM
- - Planet X   I came up with a unique definition according to ma...   Apr 14 2006, 09:08 PM
- - SigurRosFan   Interesting comment: - Comment on the recent Hubb...   Apr 17 2006, 04:52 PM
|- - SFJCody   Brown et al make more measurements with Keck. http...   Apr 17 2006, 06:17 PM
- - dvandorn   Well -- for scientific purposes, it would be far m...   Apr 17 2006, 08:47 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Size makes more sense than discovery date, by any ...   Apr 17 2006, 09:59 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 17 2006, 09:59 P...   Apr 18 2006, 04:15 AM
- - JamesFox   When it comes to 2003 EL61, it's odd shape is ...   Apr 18 2006, 01:56 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, you've got to set the goalposts at SOME ...   Apr 18 2006, 06:40 AM
|- - AndyG   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 18 2006, 07:40 A...   Apr 18 2006, 09:08 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (AndyG @ Apr 18 2006, 10:08 AM) ...   Apr 18 2006, 09:21 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (AndyG @ Apr 18 2006, 09:08 AM) Why...   Apr 19 2006, 08:31 PM
- - edstrick   Also... at all 4 giant planets, there is a clear d...   Apr 18 2006, 10:23 AM
- - edstrick   The arm-waving idea I've posted here before is...   Apr 20 2006, 09:36 AM
- - ljk4-1   Though it is not online, the July 24, 2006 issue o...   Jul 21 2006, 02:40 PM


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