IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

15 Pages V  « < 12 13 14 15 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Along the base of Vera Rubin Ridge, (Sites 64-65, Sols 1726-1812, Jun 14-Sep 11 2017)
HSchirmer
post Sep 6 2017, 07:23 PM
Post #196


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 24-July 15
Member No.: 7619



QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Sep 6 2017, 06:12 PM) *
A great image, Jan - thanks. Here is a circular version showing how we are perched on the edge of the ridge. The atmosphere is getting clearer, so we see the crater rim quite well. Soon we'll have the widest view ever of that distant landscape.

Phil

[attachment=41987:pan_sol_...cir_post.jpg]


Curious, what's the preferred plugin / viewer for circular projections?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil Stooke
post Sep 6 2017, 09:02 PM
Post #197


Solar System Cartographer
****

Group: Members
Posts: 8026
Joined: 5-April 05
From: Canada
Member No.: 227



The circular part of a circular projection is just Photoshop: Filter-Distort-Polar Coordinates. If you use it on a raw panorama you get what is usually referred to as a polar projection. Every vertical column of pixels is mapped onto a radial line from the projection center to the circumference. So the extreme foreshortening near the horizon is the same in the raw pan and the polar projection.

I perform an extra step for my circular projections, which is why I use a different name for them. I could call it Stooke's Fudged Polar Projection, but 'circular' is shorter. I change the radial scale so the outer part is greatly exaggerated and the inner part shrunk - in effect removing the foreshortening to create something a bit more like a map. It still contains a lot of relief distortion so it's not really a map-like geometry - to fix that you need a DEM. In the old days I left it like that, causing high features on the horizon to be greatly exaggerated in height. Now I shrink the horizon features a bit to try to create a horizon closer in appearance to the original panorama. A total fudgerooney. But I like the effect and it makes locations easy to compare with a HiRISE image.

Phil


--------------------
... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PaulH51
post Sep 7 2017, 12:14 AM
Post #198


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1764
Joined: 30-January 13
From: Penang, Malaysia.
Member No.: 6853



Drive direction L-MastCam from sol 1807, looking towards the top of the rise.
Not sure if we'll have a clear view of the lower part of the mountain, towards those rounded buttes, after we clear this ridge? Maybe we have a few other small ridges to clear before we get that vista? I guess a wider map with contour lines would help smile.gif
Raw colours, roughly stitched in MS ICE
Attached Image
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DeanM
post Sep 7 2017, 05:02 AM
Post #199


Junior Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 22
Joined: 10-August 12
From: Australia
Member No.: 6530



Emily has added a great MSL write-up on the PS's blog:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakda...ll-problem.html

"The engineering team has explored other methods of sample delivery, including dropping all the drilled sample on the ground and then attempting to scoop it up. If they can get the sample into the scoop, that puts it into CHIMRA for ordinary delivery. Unfortunately, the speed of the scoop works against this."

Is there anything stopping them from dropping the sample directly into the scoop (rather than dropping on the ground, then scooping)?
Dean
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RoverDriver
post Sep 7 2017, 03:01 PM
Post #200


Member
***

Group: Admin
Posts: 974
Joined: 29-September 06
From: Pasadena, CA - USA
Member No.: 1200



QUOTE (DeanM @ Sep 6 2017, 10:02 PM) *
....
Is there anything stopping them from dropping the sample directly into the scoop (rather than dropping on the ground, then scooping)?
Dean


The scoop is on the turret, where the drill is. There's no combination of turret position that would allow a direct drop into the scoop. The sample *could* be dropped into the inlet but unsifted the sample would not be useable and could (would) clog the inlet. When the sample is scooped, it will get through the sieve and would be useable.

Paolo


--------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions, ideas and information included here are my own,and should not be intended to represent opinion or policy of my employer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
HSchirmer
post Sep 7 2017, 09:04 PM
Post #201


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 24-July 15
Member No.: 7619



QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Sep 7 2017, 04:01 PM) *
[quote name='Dean]
Is there anything stopping them from dropping the sample directly into the scoop (rather than dropping on the ground, then scooping)?[/quote]

The scoop is on the turret, where the drill is. There's no combination of turret position that would allow a direct drop into the scoop. The sample *could* be dropped into the inlet but unsifted the sample would not be useable and could (would) clog the inlet. When the sample is scooped, it will get through the sieve and would be useable.



Here's a stupid question- Can the rover touch its toes?

Dump some of the sample on the front wheel, so the grousers retain it. Inspect the grain size with mahli, composition with APXS.
Position the scoop in front of the wheel, rotate the wheel forward and dump some sample off the grousers into the scoop.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil Stooke
post Sep 7 2017, 10:48 PM
Post #202


Solar System Cartographer
****

Group: Members
Posts: 8026
Joined: 5-April 05
From: Canada
Member No.: 227



Interesting idea... but apart from the fact that it sounds way too dangerous for the safety of the arm, those grousers are zigzags, not straight lines, so the direction anything would fall off them would be difficult to predict.

Phil



--------------------
... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elakdawalla
post Sep 7 2017, 11:09 PM
Post #203


Administrator
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 5166
Joined: 4-August 05
From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth
Member No.: 454



Yeah I'd say this one is not possible also because of the tiny height of the grousers, combined with all the safety issues of even putting the turret so close to the wheel (which remember is on a suspension system that allows it to move dramatically up and down), much less driving with the turret in that position, but I have to give you points for creativity. It's a fun mental image, the rover using a grouser V to funnel sample into its scoop.


--------------------
My blog - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RoverDriver
post Sep 8 2017, 03:49 AM
Post #204


Member
***

Group: Admin
Posts: 974
Joined: 29-September 06
From: Pasadena, CA - USA
Member No.: 1200



QUOTE (HSchirmer @ Sep 7 2017, 01:04 PM) *
Here's a stupid question- Can the rover touch its toes?

Dump some of the sample on the front wheel, so the grousers retain it. Inspect the grain size with mahli, composition with APXS.
Position the scoop in front of the wheel, rotate the wheel forward and dump some sample off the grousers into the scoop.


No, she cannot touch her toes. The LF wheel is too close to the arm shoulder and the RF wheel cannot be reached because of hardware (arm actuators) encroaching the rover body. Also, the rover cannot drive and use the arm at the same time. Even if this could be done, the suspension system would likely change the position of the front wheels as you drive even if you spin only one wheel. This could result in a collision with the scoop. Just the sheer quantity of PowerPoint presentations to explain such an accident would be sufficient for making me grow new hair and make it fall off again ;-)

On the other hand, there's a tray on the front of the vehicle that was designed and built to look at scooped samples. You scoop the sample, drop it on the tray and do MAHLI/APXS on the sample. I don't think anyone attempted to propose to drop a sample on the tray from the drill and scoop it up to sieve it. The issue is not APXS/MAHLI a sample (which you could do it in situ), but to sieve it, portion it, and drop it into SAM and CheMin.

Paolo


--------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions, ideas and information included here are my own,and should not be intended to represent opinion or policy of my employer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gerald
post Sep 8 2017, 05:58 AM
Post #205


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2264
Joined: 7-December 12
Member No.: 6780



What about drilling more than one hole in order to get sufficient tailings for the scoop? Scoop subsequently in perpendicular direction, first create a narrow lengthy pile, then in a perpendicular way a higher pile with more potential of some tailings ending up in the scoop. Ideally scoop uphill, or better against an edge of an uneven rock. Select the drill target not just by geological considerations, but also by the topographical settings suitable for subsequent processing. Use Mars as a tool, related to the idea of sampling onto a sand ripple. Even using the scoop to move one or more small nearby stones to the pile would be an approach. It will require some patience, but better than no sample analysis.

Edit: Btw, did you consider to rotate the drill while removing it from the hole? This will reduce friction.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RoverDriver
post Sep 8 2017, 06:21 AM
Post #206


Member
***

Group: Admin
Posts: 974
Joined: 29-September 06
From: Pasadena, CA - USA
Member No.: 1200



I think this is getting way out of topic. It is not that I do not want to continue the conversation, but believe me there are very smart engineers working on this which are considering all options. Paolo


--------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions, ideas and information included here are my own,and should not be intended to represent opinion or policy of my employer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PaulH51
post Sep 8 2017, 07:07 AM
Post #207


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1764
Joined: 30-January 13
From: Penang, Malaysia.
Member No.: 6853



Maybe time for a new thread smile.gif

Sol 1809 Drive to Site 65/3308, NLB in MS ICE (raw)

Attached Image
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zelenyikot
post Sep 8 2017, 08:25 AM
Post #208


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 210
Joined: 23-October 12
From: Russia
Member No.: 6725



Sols 1751-1754-1807 drill moving.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 


--------------------
My blog on Patreon
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sean
post Sep 8 2017, 10:20 AM
Post #209


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 821
Joined: 10-November 15
Member No.: 7837



Made it! [ I hope... ]



*surveys domain*


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheAnt
post Sep 8 2017, 01:20 PM
Post #210


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 495
Joined: 12-February 12
Member No.: 6336



QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Sep 8 2017, 08:21 AM) *
I think this is getting way out of topic. It is not that I do not want to continue the conversation, but believe me there are very smart engineers working on this which are considering all options. Paolo


I agree with RoverDriver, either they solve it, or they wont.
Even though some of the suggestions were interesting, it might be time to draw a line here. =)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

15 Pages V  « < 12 13 14 15 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th November 2019 - 01:21 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is a project of the Planetary Society and is funded by donations from visitors and members. Help keep this forum up and running by contributing here.