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Onwards to Uranus and Neptune!
SFJCody
post Jan 12 2008, 09:40 PM
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As soon as MESSENGER gets to Mercury, the most poorly explored planets in the solar system will be Uranus and Neptune. Could this lead to a revival of interest in the ice giants and their retinue, in the same way that the existence of New Horizons is perhaps partly due to the Pluto stamp*?







*via Pluto Fast Flyby and later Pluto Kuiper Express
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edstrick
post Jan 21 2008, 10:19 AM
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"...I'll always think of them as Mariners 11 and 12......"
My briefcase carries a VERY battered decal of "Mariner Jupiter Saturn". I'll have to take a photo of it and post it.
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tedstryk
post Jan 21 2008, 07:06 PM
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While imaging systems have certainly improved, Voyager's vidicon imaging was quite good. Much of the "inferior" quality comes from the use of old 1970s and 80s style processing and copying of the images. Also, many of the images are blown up to rather insane levels. The problem for Voyager with the Uranian moons was that when the planet is near solstice, approaching it from a flyby trajectory is like hitting a dartboard - you pass through the plane in which the moons orbit all at once, so you can only have one close encounter (and one more semi-decent one, such as Voyager-2 at Ariel), and all the encounters happen at about the same time. Since Voyager could only hold ~30 frames on its tape recorder and was limited by distance in what it could send in real time, the number of images that could be taken of the Urianian moons was limited. It was correct to say that Miranda would not have been picked for a dedicated Uranus mission - the Voyager team was quite frustrated by this, but it was the only moon that could receive a close flyby and still allow a trajectory that would send the spacecraft on to Neptune. Due to its small size, they were expecting it to be another Mimas, but by luck it turned out to be one of the most interesting worlds Voyager encountered. In fact, during the approach phase, when Voyager was bearing down on the Uranian system but not yet at closest approach, the lions share of the images were spent on Titania, which would likely have received the close encounter had they had the choice.

Voyager-2 at Triton was another spectacular encounter. It seem to me that the coverage seems in many classes cleaner than the coverage of the Galileans. While the increased speed, lower data rate, and lower light levels were an issue, when one looks at Voyager's early encounters, there is a lot of over and under exposure, partial (and total) misses of the target (a lot of close images of the Galileans were off the limb or on the dark side of the terminator), as well as smear from moving the spacecraft in the middle of exposures. While conditions at Neptune were more severe, by this time the Voyager controllers were veteran experts at operating the spacecraft and knew all its idiosyncrasies, rendering it almost like a new mission.


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JRehling
post Jan 21 2008, 07:56 PM
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[...]
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nprev
post Feb 7 2008, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Jan 21 2008, 11:56 AM) *
I have a sort of Moore's Law optimism for far-future missions that the ability to perform operations rapidly and store everything will increase so that the very crowded encounter sequence can be managed. It would definitely be a challenge with a slower spacecraft.


I do too, but am convinced that it will have to come in the form of both increased data-handling capability and major advances in propulsion technology. The whole IT revolution experience makes the idea of sustaining (or re-developing & procuring) the necessary systems to interpret data received decades after launch seems like a significant added consideration.


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Posts in this topic
- SFJCody   Onwards to Uranus and Neptune!   Jan 12 2008, 09:40 PM
- - tedstryk   QUOTE (SFJCody @ Jan 12 2008, 09:40 PM) A...   Jan 12 2008, 10:01 PM
|- - J.J.   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Jan 12 2008, 04:01 PM) ...   Jan 13 2008, 02:52 PM
- - vjkane   There is the opportunity, brought up in another th...   Jan 13 2008, 12:12 AM
|- - cawest   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jan 13 2008, 01:12 AM) Th...   Feb 18 2008, 04:35 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (cawest @ Feb 18 2008, 05:35 AM) yo...   Feb 18 2008, 08:55 AM
|- - cawest   QUOTE (ugordan @ Feb 18 2008, 09:55 AM) W...   Feb 19 2008, 04:45 AM
- - tasp   "Economics engineering' seemed to be the ...   Jan 13 2008, 12:31 AM
- - Greg Hullender   Does anyone have a link to any of the JSN proposal...   Jan 13 2008, 02:32 AM
- - climber   Do you think this: http://planetary.org/blog/artic...   Jan 13 2008, 06:00 AM
- - mchan   Re: JSNK mission. Front this more as a Saturn pro...   Jan 13 2008, 09:53 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (mchan @ Jan 13 2008, 09:53 AM) Re:...   Jan 13 2008, 06:16 PM
- - Greg Hullender   How much of the cost of one of these missions is t...   Jan 13 2008, 06:18 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Jan 13 2008, 10:40 PM
|- - djellison   I would consider aerocapture an enabling technolog...   Jan 13 2008, 10:55 PM
|- - Planet X   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jan 13 2008, 04:40 PM) ...   Jan 14 2008, 03:08 PM
- - CAP-Team   I think they should build two spacecraft, and send...   Jan 13 2008, 11:11 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (CAP-Team @ Jan 14 2008, 12:11...   Jan 13 2008, 11:18 PM
- - nprev   You know if anyone's done a serious study on a...   Jan 13 2008, 11:40 PM
- - vjkane   Neptune has been ranked as a higher priority as ra...   Jan 14 2008, 04:35 PM
- - Greg Hullender   I get 16 years for the Hohmann to Uranus, but just...   Jan 14 2008, 05:48 PM
|- - Del Palmer   QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Jan 14 2008, 05:4...   Jan 14 2008, 07:12 PM
- - Jyril   But it would have missed Ida and Gaspra, and the c...   Jan 14 2008, 10:40 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (Jyril @ Jan 14 2008, 11:40 PM) and...   Jan 14 2008, 10:54 PM
||- - Jyril   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jan 15 2008, 12:54 AM) I...   Jan 14 2008, 11:04 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (Jyril @ Jan 15 2008, 12:04 AM) How...   Jan 14 2008, 11:06 PM
|- - tedstryk   Yes, but during the post-Challenger delay and repl...   Jan 15 2008, 12:54 AM
|- - Toma B   QUOTE (Jyril @ Jan 15 2008, 01:40 AM) On ...   Jan 15 2008, 09:02 AM
- - tasp   IIRC, the Galileo Jupiter trajectory provided by t...   Jan 15 2008, 06:08 AM
- - Greg Hullender   Uh, I hope they didn't plan to open the main a...   Jan 15 2008, 02:32 PM
|- - Toma B   QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Jan 15 2008, 05:3...   Jan 16 2008, 07:49 AM
- - Greg Hullender   Actually, I think you're right. The only reas...   Jan 16 2008, 04:29 PM
- - Mariner9   Some years ago at a JPL open house I spoke with o...   Jan 16 2008, 09:51 PM
- - Gladstoner   .   Jan 19 2008, 08:54 AM
- - nprev   Uh...say what?! We haven't launched a Gali...   Jan 19 2008, 09:05 AM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Jan 19 2008, 09:14 AM
|- - Gladstoner   .   Jan 19 2008, 09:34 AM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (Gladstoner @ Jan 19 2008, 01:34 AM...   Jan 19 2008, 10:18 AM
||- - Gladstoner   .   Jan 19 2008, 11:00 AM
||- - Mark6   QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 19 2008, 11:18 AM) No ...   Feb 25 2008, 02:00 AM
||- - JRehling   [...]   Feb 25 2008, 04:34 AM
||- - Mark6   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 25 2008, 05:34 AM) ...   Feb 25 2008, 01:25 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Gladstoner @ Jan 19 2008, 04:34 AM...   Jan 19 2008, 03:46 PM
- - Jyril   Voyager 2 was only able to visit Uranus and Neptun...   Jan 19 2008, 10:26 AM
- - Jyril   One thing should be remembered when discussing abo...   Jan 19 2008, 02:22 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Jan 20 2008, 07:15 AM
- - mps   QUOTE (Gladstoner @ Jan 19 2008, 01:00 PM...   Jan 19 2008, 02:50 PM
|- - Gladstoner   .   Jan 19 2008, 08:30 PM
- - nprev   Come to that, Voyager itself was a scoped-down ver...   Jan 19 2008, 04:18 PM
- - dvandorn   You know, Nick, unlike a lot of the people here, y...   Jan 19 2008, 04:57 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jan 19 2008, 08:57 AM) ...   Jan 19 2008, 05:41 PM
- - Greg Hullender   Nice account of the history of the Grand Tour proj...   Jan 19 2008, 06:54 PM
- - nprev   Well, don't we all, though? Sad fact of the ...   Jan 19 2008, 09:54 PM
- - Gladstoner   .   Jan 20 2008, 07:38 AM
- - edstrick   "...I'll always think of them as Mariners...   Jan 21 2008, 10:19 AM
|- - tedstryk   While imaging systems have certainly improved, Voy...   Jan 21 2008, 07:06 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Jan 21 2008, 07:56 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jan 21 2008, 11:56 AM) ...   Feb 7 2008, 04:18 PM
- - nprev   Dou you think that Alan will hate me if I privatel...   Jan 21 2008, 06:22 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 21 2008, 12:22 PM) Dou...   Jan 22 2008, 06:11 AM
- - edstrick   "I'd argue that Galileo was Mariner 13 an...   Jan 22 2008, 10:19 AM
- - MarcF   After the proposal of a New Horizons-like mission ...   Feb 6 2008, 09:37 PM
- - Big_Gazza   Oh Great Maker, let it be so.... (for the recor...   Feb 7 2008, 10:33 AM
|- - ugordan   To me, any new mission to Neptune that isn't a...   Feb 7 2008, 11:00 AM
|- - Doc   QUOTE (ugordan @ Feb 7 2008, 02:00 PM) To...   Feb 7 2008, 11:24 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (ugordan @ Feb 7 2008, 12:00 PM) An...   Feb 7 2008, 03:45 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Feb 8 2008, 07:55 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 8 2008, 08:55 PM) I...   Feb 8 2008, 08:37 PM
|- - tedstryk   I think that Uranus has a bigger problem. The bla...   Feb 8 2008, 10:10 PM
- - mchan   Unfortunately, any mission with Uranus as primary ...   Feb 9 2008, 06:36 AM
|- - tedstryk   Neptune also has the advantage of being the most d...   Feb 9 2008, 06:20 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Feb 11 2008, 06:40 PM
- - nprev   Heh, heh...I see that some of our more distinguish...   Feb 11 2008, 09:21 PM
|- - kwp   QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 11 2008, 02:21 PM) Tri...   Feb 11 2008, 11:08 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (kwp @ Feb 11 2008, 11:08 PM) Five?...   Feb 11 2008, 11:13 PM
- - nprev   I was counting Titan; the atmosphere is extremely ...   Feb 12 2008, 04:32 AM
- - Greg Hullender   I still wish I could see a breakdown of costs. I ...   Feb 12 2008, 04:47 AM
- - nprev   Again, this is why I wish that there was a 'li...   Feb 14 2008, 04:20 AM
|- - mchan   [removed in-line quote] There may or may not be s...   Feb 14 2008, 05:27 AM
|- - ugordan   There really is no need for a launch opportunity l...   Feb 14 2008, 09:28 AM
|- - kwp   QUOTE (ugordan @ Feb 14 2008, 01:28 AM) A...   Feb 14 2008, 05:02 PM
|- - ugordan   I believe trajectory search and optimization softw...   Feb 14 2008, 05:25 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Feb 14 2008, 08:17 PM
- - simonbp   This has got me thinking about if you could pull o...   Feb 17 2008, 08:17 PM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (simonbp @ Feb 17 2008, 02:17 PM) T...   Feb 18 2008, 02:55 PM
- - Greg Hullender   I think the problem with launching a Neptune and U...   Feb 18 2008, 05:08 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Feb 18 2008, 07:15 PM
- - Greg Hullender   I thought about that, but I think the trouble is t...   Feb 19 2008, 03:03 AM
- - Greg Hullender   How does that follow? You'd clearly have less...   Feb 19 2008, 04:26 PM
- - simonbp   Well then drop the second vehicle and fly the one ...   Feb 20 2008, 06:26 AM
- - Greg Hullender   I hear you. I'd love to see a serious proposa...   Feb 21 2008, 12:42 AM
- - Big_Gazza   QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Feb 21 2008, 11:4...   Feb 21 2008, 01:14 PM
|- - Greg Hullender   QUOTE (Big_Gazza @ Feb 21 2008, 05:14 AM)...   Feb 21 2008, 04:27 PM
- - edstrick   "Sedna would be a somewhat more appealing tar...   Feb 25 2008, 06:12 AM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Feb 25 2008, 06:16 PM
- - nprev   Yeah, the LSST will undoubtedly provide a LOT of s...   Feb 25 2008, 06:57 PM
- - laurele   "So we should find any Sednas (now the 5th la...   Feb 26 2008, 07:00 AM
- - edstrick   Sedna is between what were supposed to be KB orbit...   Feb 26 2008, 08:37 AM
- - Greg Hullender   Mike Brown has sometimes called Sedna an "Inn...   Feb 26 2008, 06:44 PM
- - nprev   I just had a probably very silly idea, and would l...   Feb 26 2008, 07:57 PM
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