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Posted by: Huguet Jan 19 2019, 02:15 PM

The Chang'e 8 mission, in addition to scientific surveys and experiments, will test key technologies to lay the groundwork for the construction of a science and research base on the moon, Xinhua reported.

https://www.space.com/43000-china-moon-exploration-plans-research-base.html
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/14/c_137743306.htm

http://www.esa.int/Highlights/Lunar_3D_printing
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Engineering_Technology/Building_a_lunar_base_with_3D_printing

"3D printing works best at room temperature but over much of the Moon temperatures vary enormously across days and nights lasting two weeks each. For potential settlement, the lunar poles offer the most moderate temperature range."

Posted by: nprev Jan 19 2019, 05:41 PM

Admin note: This will be a very interesting mission, and I remind all to keep rules 1.5 and 1.6 in mind while discussing it. Thanks!

Posted by: Huguet Jan 25 2019, 10:23 AM

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/2019/whats-next-for-china.html
Andrew Jones • January 23, 2019

"Towards a robotic lunar research base

The first open discussion of this new round of what could be 3 or 4 missions came at a Chang'e-4 mission news conference in Beijing last Monday.

Despite the numbering, the first of these missions could be Chang'e-7, which will, in the words of Wu Yanhua, vice administrator of the China National Space Administration (CNSA), attempt comprehensive exploration of the lunar South Pole, including analysis of topography, composition and the space environment.

Just as Chang'e-3 had a backup in Chang'e-4, a successful Chang'e-5 mission will mean Chang'e-6 would then be similarly repurposed for a more ambitious sample return mission, targeting either the lunar far side or south pole.

Chang'e-8 would then carry on the work of Chang'e-7 and additionally seek to test key technologies, such as 3D printing, with a view to establishing a what is being loosely described as a 'robotic research base' at the south pole, involving other countries—likely similar conceptually to ESA's 'Moon Village' concept."

Posted by: Huguet Jun 16 2021, 11:41 AM

Global Space Exploration Conference 2021 GLEX2021, has just anounced Chang'e-8 for the start of phase II of International Lunar Research Station ILR (Stage 1), that goes from 2026 till 2030 (Stage I).

https://twitter.com/jemckevitt/status/1405123594347294722

Last pic not related to chang'e-8 team ("The picture shows the development team of the Mars rover emergency becon device"), but unmanned construction technologies using in-situ resources are key to get the Third Objective of the pic.

Touch Space, Insight Into Space, Change Space

Chang'e-8 will be a important start stone to "Change Space".

Posted by: Huguet Jun 16 2021, 01:03 PM

ILRS Roadmap just showed that if it will be at south pole, it will be on Amundsen Crater, very nice probably target for CE-8, CE-6 or CE-7 will probably land there too.
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1405135189920133129

##################### 2019 publication:
China space program: (Amundsen Crater floor)
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2019EA000567

Shackleton Amundsen new Race to South Pole?:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/moon-s-south-pole-in-nasa-s-landing-sites
Apears we could possible have a Shackleton Amundsen Competition again...
2013 CLSE study for Constelation program:
http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2013/02/amundsen-crater-and-clse-landing-site.html
CLSE studies from 2013 had already indicated Amundsen Crater for the cancelled Constelation program.

Posted by: Greenish Jun 17 2021, 12:32 AM

(Note sure quite where to put this, but since it was prompted by the above I'll ask here, and can move as appropriate.)

Given the number of potential missions to the permanently shadowed areas, and with the phrasing of a "race," a question I've been generally curious about becomes more relevant...

What is the radius and extent of significant thermal effects (I want to say "damage") to the pristine lunar environment due to the mere presence of a lander - in a region that has not been above some tens of Kelvin for geological lengths of time? If thin layers of cold-trapped species are of interest, are they potentially going to be volatilized due to black-body radiation of warm electronics at a range of many meters? For a descent engine plume, kilometers? I apparently don't know what to call this effect, since I haven't had much luck searching for it, and I don't see it mentioned in papers on these missions.

Is the insulation that good and/or the effect so small that it's not of concern? Is the layer presumed thick enough to ignore this? Or is this one of the reasons that being first to a given region might really matter? Any hints welcome.... I feel like I understand enough of the relevant math/physics to grok a response, but probably not enough to be confident in an answer I come up with myself.

Posted by: Explorer1 Jun 17 2021, 01:49 AM

There's already some small amount of heat, since the rims of even deep craters will experience full sunlight, and that reflects down into the shadowed regions. I recall a paper comparing the polar craters of Mercury, the Moon, and Ceres, and obviously the effect is worst at Mercury. Anything directly exposed at the surface would have sublimated long ago, but since much of the volatiles are buried some distance under the regolith (much like Phoenix encountered when scooping with its shovel), the vast majority should be well insulated.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jun 17 2021, 02:26 AM

Yes! And apart from the reflected sunlight, micrometeorites and galactic cosmic rays among other effects would slowly erode volatiles at the surface. You have to look deeper for large reservoirs. So I don't think thermal effects of a lander would be serious except very locally.

Phil

Posted by: Huguet Jan 1 2022, 09:23 PM

Chang'e-8 at 2027, 5 years from now, with a new goal, to be the first unmanned moon station:

"The Chinese program’s original goal was to carry out scientific experiments, including 3D printing of lunar dust, but Wu Yanhua, deputy director of the China National Space Administration, said the mission’s new goal is establishing the unmanned research station"

Wu Yanhua, deputy head of the CNSA has revised the date of chang'e-8 from the initial 2035 to a new 2027 date, advancing it 8 years from the initial schedule. Chang'e-8 will now be more then a testbed of technology, as proposed first, to became the first unmanned research station at the moon.

Considering the success of chang'e-3, chang'e-4, chang'e-5, tianwen-1, zhurong, and long march 5 core... it justify a new agressive approach by CSNA and make sense to put a moon station just 5 years from now, using chang'e-8 mission. That means chang'e-7, chang'e-6 and chang'e-8 in the next 5 years.. and probably more changes to come. They are absolutely getting a new pace...

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3161324/china-speeds-moon-base-plan-space-race-against-us

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jan 2 2022, 12:52 AM

Andrew Jones is saying:

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1477377799346339844

that stories like this are mixing up two different things, the CE8 mission and the full International Lunar Research Station. It might be thought of like this - that CE8 is the first component of (or a precursor to) a big new station. The difference in dates is between starting and completing the project, not moving it forwards. There's a bit of retro-conflating (is that a word? Well, it is now) going on too, with some statements that even CE4 is the start of the ILRS.

Phil

Posted by: Huguet Jan 2 2022, 01:27 AM

I believe the south china morning post made it clear. They put first a goal to make a unmanned lunar station, first active with chang'e-8. That's not the manned ILRS, but indeed one must follows the other. Changing chang'e-8 launch date from 2035 to 2027 is to agressively put it forward.., it is unwise not to understand this message....

Posted by: Huguet Jan 3 2022, 11:34 AM

Correcting Myself:

Chang'e-8 was first scheduled to the Stage 1 of Phase II - ILRS, this was put at 2026 to 2035 period (Global Space Exploration Conference 2021 GLEX2021).

So, if they manage to launch chang'e-8 by 2027 they are just keeping their schedule.

The diference now is the purpose of chang'e-8, from a testbed of technology to became a unmanned lunar base.

Probably they just wanna have a Lunar Base quicker, or are not shure on the developing phases II and III of the ILRS, or they need a stablished unmanned lunar base to help forward other stages, this make sense considering the new proposal to use a 3 core LM-5... One thing happened for shure,.. all this put chang'e-8 on spot.

Posted by: Huguet Sep 28 2022, 02:04 PM

New explanation about CE-8 on IAC2022 this month:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQPKzeIPBIE
https://www.iafastro.org/events/iac/iac-2022/iaf-global-networking-forum/wednesday-21-september/international-cooperation-prospects-on-china-lunar-and-deep-space-exploration-program.html

But nothing about how they will 3d print using local resources.... by what i undertand, now CE-8, ILRS-1 and ILRS-2 will only collect samples, they will be analised on Earth, bring by ILRS-3 and only on ILRS-5 we will see some in-situ construction... and CE-8 till ILRS-5 will be all only robotic...

Posted by: Huguet Jan 6 2023, 01:48 PM

Chang'e 7 due to fly in 2016 and chang'e 8 in 2028.
Postponed by 1 year, by now...
Interestingly they will launch a internet relay sattelite for the moon base.
Probably the delay will be a little more then usual...
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1282464.shtml

Posted by: Huguet Oct 2 2023, 02:49 PM

https://twitter.com/SegerYu/status/1708833736736034961
https://twitter.com/SegerYu/status/1708792564109963686

Chang'e 8 will have a "Robot", a rover and lander.

The Robot will work together with the lander, deploying and helping in its Scientific Objectives and Payloads Instrumentation.

Previously CE8 would have a Hopper, but this is now part of CE7, and was replaced on CE8 by a articulated Robot...

Maybe first AI on Moon?