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OPAG Reports, Formal proposals/evaluations of future outer SS missions
JRehling
post Nov 9 2007, 08:28 PM
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http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/announcements.html

That's one little URL with a lifetime's worth of reading material.

Three detailed studies are available in PDF format. The missing body is Titan, which will be the subject of a forthcoming report.

The three focus missions are:
Europa Explorer: Fairly detailed description of a mission that is pretty much what Europa Orbiter would have been.

Jupiter System Observer: Basically, Galileo 2 (without the antenna mishap!). The craft would start with a 3-year tour of all the Galileans, then spend 1 year in an elliptical Ganymede orbit, then the rest of the mission in a tight, polar Ganymede orbit (like MGS at Mars). That would map the heck out of Ganymede, but also be close enough to the rest of the system to make long-range observations for years. Note that Ganymede would thereby provide a lot of radiation shielding.

Enceladus: where three profiles are examined in depth: Enceladus Orbiter only; Enceladus Orbiter with soft lander; Saturn orbiter with Enceladus soft lander.

There's more to chew on here than I have had (or may ever have) time for, but I'll throw in my two cents' worth:

Seems like a Europa-only mission would only benefit from coming after a JSO. EE would explore Europa much better than JSO would; why even have JSO observations at Europa if EE came first? In many ways, these two missions are competitive. EE would have the big payoff, but JSO seems like basic recon that would prime EE, especially giving specs on radar performance. But if we waited til JSO was 4 years into its mission before completing design of EE, then put EE sometime mid-century.

If an Enceladus mission included a Saturn orbiter, then maybe the same orbiter could provide data relay for separate Titan elements. However, a lot of the Enceladus science goals would require an Enceladus orbiter, so I don't think a Saturn orbiter for Enceladus/Titan will win out.

Note that Enceladus orbital velocity is low enough that the craft could manage to take lots of hits from ice pellets and survive. Put a bulletproof vest on the craft and let it soar through the plumes endlessly.
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volcanopele
post Nov 19 2007, 11:00 PM
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Again, the problem is that the EE has nothing to with any possible jellyfish in Europa's ocean. EE is caught in a catch-22 where the whole push to go to Europa is to look for life, but EE won't have anything to do with that question, but we may need the orbiter to look for good places to land to answer that question. I think it might be useful, as vjkane has suggested, merge JSO and EE to get the best of both worlds: get the added science that the pre-EOI (or pre-GOI) orbital mission would provide at Io, Jupiter, and the other moons, then get the orbital mission at Europa. This would add to the cost of EE, but it might be worth it.

The only problem right now with the Europa "vision" at NASA are the timescales involved. The Mars people are complaining about a possible gap in Mars mission in the next decade to pay for MSR; at Europa, we would have EE in the 2017-2027 time frame, and the lander in the decade after that...


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ugordan
post Nov 19 2007, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE (volcanopele @ Nov 20 2007, 12:00 AM) *
The only problem right now with the Europa "vision" at NASA are the timescales involved. The Mars people are complaining about a possible gap in Mars mission in the next decade to pay for MSR; at Europa, we would have EE in the 2017-2027 time frame, and the lander in the decade after that...

That's assuming the orbiter would find anything interesting enough to merit a landing... I see your point about funding and prioritizing, though.

We'd all like to have JIMO back so everyone'd be happy, but this is not an ideal world. To be frank I'll be happy to see the day any flagship Jupiter-bound mission gets off the ground. If it turns out to be focussing on Europa, all the better. smile.gif


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vjkane
post Nov 19 2007, 11:32 PM
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Just to add more fun to this debate, a long time ago when a Europa orbiter was a new idea I read an AIAA paper on possible implementation architectures. The majority of the paper talked about implementing an orbiter. However, as a backup option, an arbitrarily large number (I think this paper discussed a dozen or two) flybys of Europa could be done. Using gravity assist, the encounter point with Europa in its orbit could be changed. In this way, you can have the closest flyby occur at any number of longitudes at Europa. Apparently it was harder to vary latitudes.

Fast forward to the $1B Enceladus flyby study. It had a number of flybys of that moon that walked around latitudes and then modified the Saturn orbit to approach Enceladus from the other side. This way, both hemispheres would be observed.

Now look ahead to a Jovian orbiter. It's mission could be tweaked to make a large number of flybys of one moon and then orbit another. The primary costs would be mission operations, fuel, and radiation exposure (especially if the moon with lots of flybys is Europa).

So get on your wishing caps. You almost can have two intensive moon studies (plus remote studies of Jupiter and Io and maybe some Io flybys). Imagine what the JSO instrument set could do with 24 flybys of Ganymede or Europa spaced 15 degrees around the equator. If the flybys are close enough, you can get snippets of coverage with the radar system.


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Posts in this topic
- JRehling   OPAG Reports   Nov 9 2007, 08:28 PM
- - Mariner9   Drats. Everytime I try to download the Europa rep...   Nov 12 2007, 08:19 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Mariner9 @ Nov 12 2007, 12:19 PM) ...   Nov 12 2007, 08:42 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (Mariner9 @ Nov 12 2007, 08:19 PM) ...   Nov 12 2007, 08:57 PM
- - vjkane   Some more details comparing the Europa explorer an...   Nov 13 2007, 05:14 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (vjkane @ Nov 13 2007, 09:14 AM) So...   Nov 13 2007, 07:39 PM
|- - JRehling   The full Europa Explorer report is now up. More re...   Nov 13 2007, 10:38 PM
- - PhilCo126   Again this points out we live in exciting times, w...   Nov 13 2007, 06:08 PM
- - volcanopele   Sweet! Obviously, the two that I favor are JS...   Nov 14 2007, 07:38 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Nov 14 2007, 07:38 P...   Nov 14 2007, 08:01 PM
- - volcanopele   Yes, if the only difference were which moon was or...   Nov 14 2007, 08:07 PM
|- - vjkane   I've taken a look through the JSO and Europa E...   Nov 16 2007, 12:39 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (vjkane @ Nov 15 2007, 04:39 PM) I...   Nov 18 2007, 10:14 PM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 18 2007, 05:14 PM) ...   Nov 19 2007, 01:37 AM
|- - tedstryk   I tend to favor JSO due to the better Io coverage,...   Nov 19 2007, 11:37 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (rlorenz @ Nov 18 2007, 05:37 PM) I...   Nov 19 2007, 06:06 PM
- - ngunn   I tend to agree. Whereas EE is really a fixed-term...   Nov 19 2007, 01:23 PM
- - nprev   Although I'm not really a Europaphile myself, ...   Nov 19 2007, 01:48 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 19 2007, 01:48 PM) Alt...   Nov 19 2007, 06:05 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 19 2007, 10:05 AM) ...   Nov 19 2007, 06:21 PM
||- - tedstryk   Two things that I would really like to see are lon...   Nov 19 2007, 06:44 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 19 2007, 07:05 PM) ...   Nov 19 2007, 06:45 PM
||- - volcanopele   QUOTE (ugordan @ Nov 19 2007, 11:45 AM) I...   Nov 19 2007, 07:10 PM
|||- - ugordan   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Nov 19 2007, 08:10 P...   Nov 19 2007, 07:19 PM
||- - ngunn   QUOTE (ugordan @ Nov 19 2007, 06:45 PM) b...   Nov 19 2007, 10:28 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (ngunn @ Nov 19 2007, 11:28 PM) If ...   Nov 19 2007, 10:43 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 19 2007, 10:05 AM) ...   Nov 19 2007, 06:56 PM
|- - vjkane   I think that the discussion of which moon is more ...   Nov 19 2007, 08:46 PM
|- - tedstryk   I still fail to see what makes Europa so much more...   Nov 19 2007, 09:46 PM
||- - nprev   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 19 2007, 01:46 PM) ...   Nov 19 2007, 10:13 PM
||- - tedstryk   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 19 2007, 10:13 PM) The...   Nov 19 2007, 10:25 PM
|- - Juramike   Here's my rundown (pretty much mentioned by vj...   Nov 19 2007, 11:36 PM
|- - tedstryk   I think that the additional time observing the Jov...   Nov 20 2007, 12:13 AM
|- - NMRguy   QUOTE (vjkane @ Nov 19 2007, 12:36 AM) Wh...   Nov 20 2007, 12:42 AM
- - nprev   Hmm again...keeping up with all these great argume...   Nov 19 2007, 08:42 PM
- - nprev   Ted, when I said "public", should've...   Nov 19 2007, 10:34 PM
- - nprev   Man, this thread is on fire...great stuff, though....   Nov 19 2007, 10:55 PM
- - volcanopele   Again, the problem is that the EE has nothing to w...   Nov 19 2007, 11:00 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Nov 20 2007, 12:00 A...   Nov 19 2007, 11:10 PM
|- - vjkane   Just to add more fun to this debate, a long time a...   Nov 19 2007, 11:32 PM
- - Mariner9   I'm surprised that almost the entire debate se...   Nov 20 2007, 12:07 AM
- - djellison   You could make those same arguments regarding the ...   Nov 20 2007, 12:10 AM
|- - Mariner9   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 19 2007, 04:10 PM)...   Nov 20 2007, 01:08 AM
- - vjkane   The swing argument in favor of making the next Fla...   Nov 20 2007, 01:29 AM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (vjkane @ Nov 19 2007, 05:29 PM) Th...   Nov 20 2007, 02:17 AM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 19 2007, 09:17 PM) ......   Nov 20 2007, 06:11 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Nov 19 2007, 10:11...   Nov 20 2007, 07:15 AM
- - vjkane   I've been trying to think of creative solution...   Nov 20 2007, 04:47 AM
- - dvandorn   This discussion is interesting in that it seems to...   Nov 20 2007, 05:45 AM
- - volcanopele   The one good thing about EE is that it would be a ...   Nov 20 2007, 07:30 AM
- - edstrick   (Without reading the voluminous material on the op...   Nov 20 2007, 10:22 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (edstrick @ Nov 20 2007, 10:22 AM) ...   Nov 20 2007, 12:38 PM
||- - tedstryk   One thing to add. I would quickly defect from my ...   Nov 20 2007, 02:24 PM
||- - nprev   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 20 2007, 04:38 AM) ...   Nov 20 2007, 02:30 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 20 2007, 03:30 PM) Bui...   Nov 20 2007, 02:48 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (ugordan @ Nov 20 2007, 02:48 PM) Y...   Nov 20 2007, 02:57 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 20 2007, 03:57 PM)...   Nov 20 2007, 03:16 PM
||- - tedstryk   QUOTE (ugordan @ Nov 20 2007, 03:16 PM) P...   Nov 20 2007, 03:40 PM
||- - JRehling   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 20 2007, 07:40 AM) ...   Nov 20 2007, 06:38 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (edstrick @ Nov 20 2007, 10:22 AM) ...   Nov 20 2007, 02:33 PM
- - nprev   No question at all that there would be trade-offs,...   Nov 20 2007, 03:05 PM
- - Juramike   I agree with ugordan, scientific goals should driv...   Nov 20 2007, 04:37 PM
- - nprev   Looks more & more like we're not going to ...   Nov 20 2007, 07:08 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 20 2007, 07:08 PM) . I...   Nov 20 2007, 07:12 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 20 2007, 11:12 AM)...   Nov 20 2007, 07:16 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 20 2007, 02:12 PM)...   Nov 20 2007, 08:20 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Nov 20 2007, 08:20...   Nov 20 2007, 08:48 PM
||- - JRehling   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 20 2007, 12:48 PM)...   Nov 21 2007, 05:02 AM
||- - tedstryk   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 20 2007, 08:48 PM)...   Nov 21 2007, 02:30 PM
|||- - vjkane   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 21 2007, 02:30 PM) ...   Nov 21 2007, 03:58 PM
||- - mchan   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 20 2007, 12:48 PM)...   Nov 21 2007, 04:02 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 20 2007, 07:12 PM)...   Nov 20 2007, 10:28 PM
- - volcanopele   LOL Yeah, that's a good point to keep in mind...   Nov 20 2007, 07:24 PM
- - ngunn   I've scanned the Enceladus report and was surp...   Nov 20 2007, 08:41 PM
- - vjkane   I stole a little time at lunch to compare camera r...   Nov 20 2007, 09:25 PM
- - vjkane   For camera resolutions from different missions at ...   Nov 20 2007, 09:28 PM
- - mchan   Very much enjoying the discussion here. For EE, d...   Nov 21 2007, 05:23 AM
- - djellison   I thought about adding Ulysses - but in terms of t...   Nov 21 2007, 02:49 PM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   Having skimmed through these reports (I need to re...   Nov 21 2007, 04:34 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Bjorn Jonsson @ Nov 21 2007, 11:34...   Nov 21 2007, 05:21 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Nov 21 2007, 09:21...   Nov 21 2007, 05:40 PM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   I should clarify that the main reasons I find the ...   Nov 21 2007, 06:08 PM
- - djellison   Saturnian and Jovians systems - They're both i...   Nov 21 2007, 06:49 PM
- - Geographer   How much more expensive would a Saturnian mission ...   Nov 22 2007, 02:04 PM
- - Mariner9   On the surface of things, you would think that a S...   Nov 22 2007, 03:39 PM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   True - but there's one problem: A Jupiter grav...   Nov 22 2007, 04:42 PM
|- - Mariner9   QUOTE (Bjorn Jonsson @ Nov 22 2007, 08:42...   Nov 22 2007, 07:41 PM
- - nprev   Does JPL or another agency maintain a launch oppor...   Nov 22 2007, 05:21 PM
|- - gndonald   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 23 2007, 02:21 AM) Doe...   Nov 22 2007, 10:12 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (gndonald @ Nov 22 2007, 02:12 PM) ...   Nov 22 2007, 10:42 PM
|- - Del Palmer   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 22 2007, 10:42 PM) Yea...   Nov 22 2007, 11:20 PM
- - nprev   I stand corrected: Gary Flandro is an American, wo...   Nov 23 2007, 12:24 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 23 2007, 01:24 AM) Poi...   Nov 23 2007, 09:55 AM
- - edstrick   My brain's bouncing off a statement made a cou...   Nov 23 2007, 07:37 AM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (edstrick @ Nov 23 2007, 02:37 AM) ...   Nov 23 2007, 01:42 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (rlorenz @ Nov 23 2007, 05:42 AM) A...   Nov 23 2007, 03:25 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (rlorenz @ Nov 23 2007, 01:42 PM) A...   Nov 23 2007, 05:39 PM
- - nprev   Thought so; in fact, seems as if I saw a recent pa...   Nov 23 2007, 10:51 AM
- - Floyd   The problem is what do you mean by "very favo...   Nov 23 2007, 01:02 PM
- - ngunn   All agog to read the Titan OPAG report when it app...   Nov 23 2007, 01:56 PM
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