Mars Sample Return |
Mars Sample Return |
Oct 4 2009, 05:26 AM
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#286
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Member Group: Members Posts: 234 Joined: 8-May 05 Member No.: 381 |
I'll give it one more try,Phil. My best guess would be something from The First (or Second, or Third) International Conference on Mars Polar Science and Exploration. The First was held in 1998, the Second in 2000, and the Third in 2003.
The abstracts were published by LPI and may be available online, but are definitely available in print (First and Second) and CD-ROM (Third) form. Other than that, my only other guess would be an LPSC abstract. Good luck. |
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Guest_PhilCo126_* |
Oct 4 2009, 09:31 AM
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#287
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Guests |
Indeed, LPI has a few books on Mars Sample Return.
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Oct 14 2009, 04:22 PM
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#288
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Member Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 19-July 05 Member No.: 442 |
The Beyond Apollo weblog has been posting a series of articles on Mars Sample return missions, the latest article covers a 1976 proposal to collect a sample of ice from the Martian South pole using modified Vikings.
See: Beyond Apollo: Mars Polar Ice Sample Return (1976). |
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Oct 14 2009, 04:37 PM
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#289
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10150 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
I should add that David Portree is trying to help me find that missing traverse map, but I've come to the conclusion I was confusing it with one of the others in the Mars Landing Site Catalog, possibly one at Durius Valles (site 079 in the Catalog). I was just so sure I had seen it, but that is, increasingly, a bad sign!
Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Oct 14 2009, 04:44 PM
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#290
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10150 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
Here is an example of a set of perhaps little known traverse suggestions dating from the Mars Surveyor 2001 planning phase. Mars Surveyor 2001 was originally going to land an Athena rover similar to MER, which might travel a few tens of km. At the first landing site workshop, these traverses were suggested as well as lots of other sites without specific traverses. Then the mission was descoped and the rover would be similar to Sojourner with a maximum range of about 1 km. Then it was cancelled, and eventually the spacecraft flew as Phoenix, without a rover.
Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Oct 14 2009, 10:26 PM
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#291
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1083 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
Full inline quote removed. Hey - it was Phil's idea. - ADMIN
...And I like the "Thyra" crater site, because it's a few km away from our Columbia Hills in Gusev crater ! |
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Oct 15 2009, 02:04 PM
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#292
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10150 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
Every time I look at that place I want to call it 'Thyra', but I have to force myself to correct it - it is officially 'Thira'.
(PS - you'll get into trouble for that big quote!) Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Jun 16 2011, 11:14 AM
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#293
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Member Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 4-May 11 From: Pardubice, CZ Member No.: 5979 |
These days, 16.-17.6. 2011 is 24th MEPAG meeting taking place in Lisboa, Portugal (I guess first time out of USA).
Another clear sign of NASA taking European guys more into the club. At least 5 presentations about MSR are available today already - scientific objectives, sample size, number of samples, sampling priorities and strategies, etc., etc. |
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Oct 18 2015, 04:22 PM
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#294
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 21-January 13 Member No.: 6845 |
Here might be the best place to ask a question I always have when it comes to MSR.
The rocket which launches the capsule from Mars needs a certain size, but the images I have seen are always impression from artists, and from the ExoMars rover I know how wrong this "impression" can be. What is the rocket size to launch a 100kg satellite to a stable orbit around Mars? I assume that that will be a solid fuel rocket with one or two stages. Is there a nice program to do the calculations? |
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Oct 18 2015, 04:54 PM
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#295
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2511 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
What is the rocket size to launch a 100kg satellite to a stable orbit around Mars? The math is simple enough -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation -- but the devil is in the details. The 100 kg is obviously arbitrary. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/marsconce...12/pdf/4342.pdf (which was just the first google hit I found) assumed a payload mass to orbit of 36 kg, 5 kg of which was sample -- this was a two-stage hybrid rocket. Total vehicle mass at liftoff is 288 kg. A single stage was found to be feasible if the payload mass was reduced to 1 kg. -------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Oct 18 2015, 05:32 PM
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#296
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2511 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
BTW, http://web.stanford.edu/~cantwell/Recent_p...A_2013-3899.pdf is a good review of the history of MAV and ISRU development from the same group that's pushing this hybrid design. I'm afraid they are glossing over a lot of the system complexity issues with their design, but that's pretty typical for this area.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Oct 18 2015, 11:16 PM
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#297
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
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Apr 27 2016, 06:04 PM
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#298
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1627 Joined: 5-March 05 From: Boulder, CO Member No.: 184 |
Greetings - here's an announcement of opportunity about MMX for Martian Moons Sample Return.
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=48736 -------------------- Steve [ my home page and planetary maps page ]
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Sep 30 2017, 03:11 AM
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#299
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
I haven't seen last month's MSR news on UMSF yet and this is the place where it should go:
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis...ple-return.html It seems like there's a disconnect between the short time between now and 2026 and the complexity of the architecture. I suppose it's possible to start a multi-mission sample return before the architecture is finalized (and perhaps, in the form of the 2020 rover, we already have), but that seems a bit risky with the stakes and costs so high. If the Mars Ascent Vehicle has no rover and relies upon an already-active rover to survive long enough to deliver samples to it, that simplifies the architecture enormously, but risks the failure of the rover before the MAV arrives. I suppose a simplicity-and-risk tradeoff is inevitable with something as big as this. |
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Sep 30 2017, 02:39 PM
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#300
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Member Group: Members Posts: 706 Joined: 22-April 05 Member No.: 351 |
I haven't seen last month's MSR news on UMSF yet and this is the place where it should go: http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis...ple-return.html It seems like there's a disconnect between the short time between now and 2026 and the complexity of the architecture. I suppose it's possible to start a multi-mission sample return before the architecture is finalized (and perhaps, in the form of the 2020 rover, we already have), but that seems a bit risky with the stakes and costs so high. If the Mars Ascent Vehicle has no rover and relies upon an already-active rover to survive long enough to deliver samples to it, that simplifies the architecture enormously, but risks the failure of the rover before the MAV arrives. I suppose a simplicity-and-risk tradeoff is inevitable with something as big as this. There has been on-going architectural studies and technology, for example paraffin-based fuels, for a sample return. Apparently NASA's managers think that an architecture could be chosen, technologies matured (a recent paper on paraffin fuels said the maturity was low), and the design and assembly completed by the mid-2020s. Without more details I'm skeptical. A bigger issue may be what the overlapping development of three flagship-class missions -- Mars 2020, Europa Clipper, and Mars sample return, (ignoring a possible Europa lander) -- would do to the balance of the planetary science program. Topic for a near future post on my blog. -------------------- |
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