Dawn approaches Vesta, Approach phase, 3 May to 16 July 2011 Options

[Holder of the Tw...]

Latest DAWN journal is out.

Link

First pictures of Vesta should be taken today.

[elakdawalla]

If you looked at the Dawn Journal earlier this morning, there was an important addition to one paragraph in the last hour:

During the approach phase, images will be released in periodic batches, with priority viewing for residents of Earth. The flow will be more frequent thereafter.

Yay

[elakdawalla]

I went through Marc's journals and summarized the various phases of Dawn's Vesta mission in a blog entry. And since the Vesta phase of the mission has now officially started, I've made a new topic! Yay Dawn!

[bagelverse]

Be nice to get an approach sequence as was done for Eros with NEAR/Shoemaker.

http://near.jhuapl.edu/media/image_sheets/snake.pdf

[Phil Stooke]

OK, Dawn team, this is the bit where you release an image...

Phil

[elakdawalla]

Would be nice. All they've released lately is what has to be one of the worst artist's concepts of a JPL mission I've seen in a long time. The least they could have done was to include the more recent simulation of Vesta rather than the unnaturally smooth-looking one from many years ago. And the clutter of the background with a hundred other little asteroid chunks makes me cringe.

[Phil Stooke]

Wow, that's scary! Little bits of Gaspra, Eros and Mathilde floating around, but luckily close enough to Vesta and Ceres that they could get them in the same field of view.

Phil

[Stu]

Ahhh... I think they're confusing DAWN with another spacecraft...

[Stefan]

Would be nice. All they've released lately is what has to be one of the worst artist's concepts of a JPL mission I've seen in a long time. The least they could have done was to include the more recent simulation of Vesta rather than the unnaturally smooth-looking one from many years ago. And the clutter of the background with a hundred other little asteroid chunks makes me cringe.

By any chance, have you approached Chris Russell?

[Phil Stooke]

While that might look like a good idea, I should point out the mission has half a dozen people on its outreach team. Chris might have other things on his mind!

EDIT - 8 people, one of whom is at JPL

Phil

[Greg Hullender]

I note we just passed the 1M km mark.


http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/orbits/fullview4.jpg

--Greg

[mchan]

OMG! Shades of MCO! It shows Dawn at 1M Km or 646K miles from Vesta. Which is it?

[djellison]

Given that the metric value is expressed to one significant figure, it's accurate.

[ElkGroveDan]

The correct figure is 5.168 million furlongs.

[stevesliva]

I prefer one gigameter, pronounced "jigameter" like Doc in Back to the Future. Let me know when we've done 1.21 gigameters

[ugordan]

NASA's Dawn Captures First Image of Nearing Asteroid

[tek_604]

Press release from the Framing Camera Team @ MPS:

Land ho! A first glimpse of Vesta

[tek_604]

New website for Dawn Framing Camera @ MPS:

Dawn Framing Camera

[centsworth_II]

New website for Dawn Framing Camera...

The English version.

[Phil Stooke]

Hopefully we'll get another picture soon. Meanwhile, I took the first image and smoothed it from the big pixel format. No new information but it looks better... maybe!

Phil

[MahFL]

Well it at least appears to still be there, which I suppose is good news.
Vesta is my mother in laws first name too .

[Decepticon]

My understanding is Dawn will reach HST resolution 2nd week of June!

Early Treat!

[kenny]

Vesta has fond assocations for some of us. It was a type of dehydrated chicken or beef curry meal we used to take camping in the 1970s...

[Stu]

haha! I remember those! I wouldn't be surprised if Vesta turns out to be *less* dense than some of those meals...!!

Edit: here's what we're talking about...

Vesta chow mein

Many happy/not so happy flashbacks for Brit forum members after clicking on that link... those "crispy noodles" were harder than a tramp's toenails.

[ElkGroveDan]

... those "crispy noodles" were harder than a tramp's toenails.

Well there's goes MY breakfast.

[MahFL]

I liked those Vesta Chow Mein meals !

[AndyG]

And I liked the crunchy noodles.

Makes me wonder whether GRaND will detect any Sodium 2-Aminopentanedioate though...

Andy

[Phil Stooke]

OK, Dawn team! This is the bit where you release another image!

Phil

[Hungry4info]

You aren't excited about this, are you?
I wouldn't think it would look too different from the previous image.

[SFJCody]

Pictures taken now should have almost twice the resolution of the first image.

[Greg Hullender]

OK, Dawn team! This is the bit where you release another image!

Up until June, when they have pics superior to Hubble, the only reason I can see for them to take the trouble to post anything is to remind us they love us. Their resources for outreach are thin, though, and I expect they're extremely busy right now. I'm sure they'll post something in due course.

--Greg

[Explorer1]

And posting on a Sunday would be a big event for an imaging team, I imagine...

[JohnVV]

Basically the same as Phil's
there is not much one can do with 16 px.
[attachment=24418:ast.png]

now some fun
the TV ncis's Abby
[attachment=24420:abby2.png]

we will just have to wait and see

[SFJCody]

Can't wait! If you consider the imagery of Titan taken by Voyager 1 as Titan's preliminary reconnaissance, the last time humanity got a first close-up look at a body this size or larger was Triton in 1989. Exactly the same statement can be made about Dawn's encounter with Ceres, and the encounter of New Horizons with Pluto.

[antipode]

While we are all waiting for the next DAWN images, does somebody know that the IAA conventions will be for naming surface features on Vesta (and on Ceres eventually I guess)? What 'theme' will Vesta get, and will that include the giant south pole crater? I'm somewhat surprised that hasn't already been named, since its pretty unambiguous on ground based imagery...

P

[charborob]

Go to this page, and scroll down to "Vesta". Ceres is not mentioned on this page.

[antipode]

Thankyou sir - that's EXACTLY what I was looking for....

P

[Paolo]

a new Dawn Journal is out
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_05_27_11.asp

[Toma B]

These are few last sentences of text about DAWN that I found in Sky & Telescope recently:

As Dawn sails closer, its pictures will continue to get sharper. By the end of May, scientists hope to be receiving images 12 pixels wide. In mid-June Dawn’s pictures will probably be comparable to those of Vesta taken by Hubble. When Dawn slows into orbit, its cameras — which should by then be taking images 250 pixels wide, a resolution of 2 km per pixel — will be turned off. When they are turned on at its mapping orbit in mid-August, the resolution will be 300 m per pixel. Dawn is scheduled to dip as low as 110 miles (175 km) above the surface next year and achieve a resolution of 30 m per pixel.

However when I checked those numbers with what I already know from other sources I was a bit confused.
I think I can beleive Marc Rayman that survey orbit's hight is 2700 km and from there Dawn's cameras can see Vesta with 250m/pix. From this I calculated that in "HAMO" (660 km high) resolution would be about 61 m and from LAMO (180 km high) resolution would be about 16 m/pix.
That numbers doesn't seem to be right with S&T magazine's article?
So can somebody tell me who's wrong here or if Survey orbit, HAMO and LAMO hights have been changed?

[CAP-Team]

According to Celestia, Vesta is now 3' 32,5" in diameter, as seen from Dawn, at a distance of about 540,000 kilometers.

[elakdawalla]

Would sure be nice if we could confirm that with an actual photo from Dawn

[Astro0]

I'm surprised that we haven't seen any more images from the approach phase.
Sure, they might be just a few pixels and little to see but at least that's 'something'.

I wonder if the mission realises that there is serious interest out there in the public for new images - 'even if it's just a blur of pixels'.
Is there a tree we can shake?

[Phil Stooke]

I did! Sometimes it's more a matter of people not seeing possibilities - like the ISRO people who didn't release video of the MIP descent to the Moon because it rotated too fast, not seeing that there would be other ways to do it, like placing images in turn on a scrolling map...

Here, we are supposed to be getting pictures each week. Just releasing the weekly images would show Vesta gradually growing, gradually being resolved a bit more each time, and by now there should be some variation with longitude to look at. or some colour to play with. Any number of composites and animations showing growth and rotation could already exist. I also pointed out that if they just release the images, outside people like UMSF will multiply their efforts many times over.

Come on Dawn! We're ready for you.

Phil

[tek_604]

For those of you on facebook, the Dawn Framing Camera now has its own page. You can like it if you wish

[SFJCody]

If they get enough 'likes' will they release another image?

[Bart]

Well I just 'liked' it, anyway.

[elakdawalla]

For those of you on facebook, the Dawn Framing Camera now has its own page. You can like it if you wish

If they get enough 'likes' will they release another image?

tek_604, you appear to be on the Framing Camera team, right? SFJCody's response is flippant, but to ask more seriously and politely, can you explain to us why the team has chosen not to release any images since the first one? I sent a question about this to Chris Russell and he said it was part of the Dawn mission's plan not to release any more images but didn't really provide a satisfactory explanation of why you would want to keep the public in the dark about your approach to Vesta.

[Stu]

I think it's a great shame we're not seeing more pictures. The front page of the DAWN mission's website declares the mission is all about "Exploring New Worlds". Sorry, but this lack of approach images is akin to Columbus locking all the Santa Maria's crew below decks and refusing to let them see The "New World" until they were within spitting distance of the beach...

[tek_604]

tek_604, you appear to be on the Framing Camera team, right? SFJCody's response is flippant, but to ask more seriously and politely, can you explain to us why the team has chosen not to release any images since the first one? I sent a question about this to Chris Russell and he said it was part of the Dawn mission's plan not to release any more images but didn't really provide a satisfactory explanation of why you would want to keep the public in the dark about your approach to Vesta.

I can confirm that I am on the (MPS) Framing Camera team (I guess it was only a matter of time before someone worked it out!).

I am but a small cog in a large machine (!), and as such, I do not know why the mission has chosen not to release any further images.

You had it right to contact Chris Russell, and his answer would be the final (and best!) one.

[ngunn]

this lack of approach images is akin to Columbus locking all the Santa Maria's crew below decks and refusing to let them see The "New World" until they were within spitting distance of the beach.

Good analogy. Here's another. We are approaching the New World in the belly of a whale.

They clearly have a policy that we would like to see changed, a policy that we did not know about until now. Too late for Vesta maybe but can anything be done to change their minds before the Ceres approach? Any ideas?

[volcanopele]

Seriously what are you guys expecting at this point from another image? For Vesta to go from a fuzzy dot to a slightly bigger fuzzy dot? Yes, it would be nice if additional images are released once its shape is discerned and again when you can start picking out surface features, but I don't see why everyone is in a rush to see more pictures at this point.

[ngunn]

it would be nice if additional images are released once its shape is discerned

Yes it would! But on present form I think people suspect they are 'guarding the science' and may sit on everything until they have something like an approach movie to present, with analysis, in a press release or conference slot. If everything so far is pre-scientific pixels what possible purpose is served by withholding the images and denying enthusiasts a little bit of fun?

Steve Squyers was recently challenged by a committee of politicians who told him they would like to do more planetary exploration but asked him "Where is your community?"

Well, here we are, and we have to stand up.

[Stu]

I don't think it's so much now about hoping/expecting to see anything new on images, as it is about being made to feel a part part of the mission, of the adventure, of being "taken along on the ride". True, Vesta would just be a slightly bigger blurred...pixelly...blob... but that's not the point. The point is the view would have changed, DAWN would be a bit nearer, and we were being shown that progress. Not that we have a god-given right to be (especially non US taxpayers), I'm not saying that, but the culture has changed now. Thanks to the rapid and generous release of images by the MER and CASSINI teams space enthusiasts and the public now like - and, yes, ok, expect - to be told, and shown, what's going on, just because it's the right thing to do.

I'm sure the DAWN people think they have a good reason for not being so free with their images, and yep, there's not a lot new to see on any new images, but they can't trumpet the fact that DAWN is "exploring new worlds" ansd seeing these worlds and features for the first time, then say"...but actually, we're not going to show you the pictures we're taking, because they're too sciency, you wouldn't understand them." That's the old ESA attitude. And that was kicked into touch eventually.

Besides, it HAS to be more fun and more exciting for a mission's team to know that their work is being seen and appreciated by lots of people "out here", and to get feedback from them. I just think they're missing an opportunity, that's all.

[centsworth_II]

My guess is that the Dawn team planned image releases strictly from the viewpoint of impacting the general audience and not satisfying space geeks. The plan was set who-knows-how-long ago and I guess it's not about to change. But it would be nice at least to know what it is.

[volcanopele]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see more images released from this mission, but I still don't understand the uproar at THIS point. I understand what you are saying about wanting to follow Dawn's journey to Vesta, but quite frankly, from my understanding the pictures taken now wouldn't look all that different from the one they already released. Now of course, once Dawn gets much closer and features are resolved, I would clambering right along with you guys to see more.

But I think that for the time being, patience is needed with the camera team. Nothing wrong with voicing your desire to see more images because that helps to arm the E/PO folks on the mission with ammunition to take to the mission leads of the public interest in the project, though.

[ngunn]

impacting the general audience and not satisfying space geeks.

As Phil Stooke pointed out earlier space geeks can act as an ampifier, increasing the impact on the general audience at no expense to the project. This applies equally to image magicians and educators. They are missing a trick, no doubt about it. Centsworth: I don't agree that minds can't be changed by sympathetic criticism.

[Stu]

I don't think this is "uproar"... this is a low, frustrated, Aslan growl of discontent...

"Uproar" will come if we don't get to see surface detail when someone's figured out it should be visible... but I'm sure that won't happen.

And if any of the DAWN team are looking in, we're not having a go at you. We love you really. We just want to celebrate this amazing time with you.

[JohnVV]

i am in agreement with the few above this
At this point there IS NOTHING to be discerned from images that are 12x12 ,16x16,24x24,36x36

there is no useful info in those ( true the processing that was done for Pluto could) but why use up the cpu cycles .
wait for a bit .

[attachment=24418:ast.png]
is as good as it gets right now

[elakdawalla]

volcanopele, would your point of view change if I told you that the Dawn team plans to release no further images until July 3?

[ngunn]

At this point there IS NOTHING to be discerned from images

I'd still like to show them to my students each morning and let them decide that.

[ElkGroveDan]

I agree. I find this attitude of, "there's nothing for you in these images" to be a bit condescending.

[volcanopele]

If that marks the beginning of daily image releases, then yes, July 3 is fine (except of course, any gaps in image coverage)

[ngunn]

"there's nothing for you in these images"

"It's a local shop, for local people. THERE'S NOTHING FOR YOU HERE."

[elakdawalla]

I don't think that daily image releases are any part of the Dawn team's plan.

[ngunn]

The measure of public involvement needs to be part of the case for funding of future missions. Can we do anything about that?

(Dawn team, go go go!)

[ElkGroveDan]

I get the feeling that it's going to be more like the MGS MOC images -- highlights once a week or so.

[djellison]

Right now it's like OSIRIS on Rosetta. Uwe Keller is involved in both.

[Bart]

They will have to upload it all to PDS eventually, right?

[elakdawalla]

Yes, that's true. No matter how stingy the PI (and there are lots of stingy PI's) the data has to get to the PDS eventually, and "eventually" has been a shorter and shorter period of time with each passing decade. Time's passage gives more and more people the bandwidth and skills to do cool stuff with PDS data. I care less and less about quick release of images for "pretty picture" purposes; I even lay off of Cassini and rover raw images knowing I'll see and be able to manipulate better versions in under a year, with each PDS release. But there's really nothing better than numerous, rapid image releases to allow enthusiasts to follow along with the ongoing, unfolding drama of an active space mission that's exploring a whole new unseen world (or, in the case of the rovers, new unseen landscapes and vistas). It looks like we're not going to be permitted to enjoy that at Vesta. At least I can trust that I will be able to enjoy that unfolding drama at Pluto, and on Mars with Curiosity, and (I think) above Jupiter's poles with Junocam. Hopefully if we make enough of a stink we'll be able to enjoy it at Ceres. The thrill of opening up each new image and seeing something new -- or not, and knowing you're going to have to quell your anticipation for a little while, waiting for celestial mechanics to bring your ship a bit closer to your goal -- shouldn't be something that only the few people intimately involved in a mission get to enjoy. That's the old way of doing things. The excitement of opening up a new image and a new view of a new world can be spread around Earth -- why not spread it, and create enthusiasm for more missions to explore more strange new worlds?

[eoincampbell]

I hereby add my voice to this -request for images-

[Holder of the Tw...]

...there IS NOTHING to be discerned...

We could discern that everything at this point is going according to plan. A little bit of reassurance. No reason to suspect otherwise, of course, but still ...

... would your point of view change if I told you that the Dawn team plans to release no further images until July 3?

I hope that's not really the case.

[Greg Hullender]

I remember when Pioneer 10 flew past Jupiter, almost 40 years ago. I'd eagerly waited a year and a half for it, but the released pics in the papers were awfully poor--worse than pics from ground-based telescopes. I had to wait almost two months for a Sky and Telescope issue that showed the beautiful photos, blowing away anything ever seen from the ground.

Voyager was a little better because I was at Caltech during the Saturn flybys (thirty years ago) and JPL set up monitors all over campus so we could watch the raw footage. The quality was so poor, though, that I was stunned when I saw the beautiful published prints--again, a month or two later.

Twenty years ago, when the first Hubble servicing mission reported great new photos, I used the Internet to find those pics on NASA's site. It was the first time I used the Internet for anything but e-mail, and I was blown away to see such beautiful pics within days of the mission. Still, it was just a handful of carefully selected and processed pics.

I think it's been about a decade now that space probes have routinely uploaded essentially all their pictures to the web. Now we feel we're being cheated if we don't get daily updates, even when there's little or nothing worth seeing. I'm not saying that's wrong--just marvelling at the change. I have lots of sympathy for planners on the Dawn team who might be taken by surprise.

Of course I'm as eager as anyone to see the new pics--even if they are just slightly-bigger blobs--but I can wait. I've got practice at it.

--Greg

[djellison]

. I have lots of sympathy for planners on the Dawn team who might be taken by surprise.

I can not possibly believe for a single second that the entire project is taken by surprise that the public might want to see the pictures they've paid for in a timely fashion.

MER had been releasing images for 3.5 yrs and Cassini for 3, when Dawn LAUNCHED.

There is no surprise here. Just a lack of images.

[lyford]

But there's really nothing better than numerous, rapid image releases to allow enthusiasts to follow along with the ongoing, unfolding drama of an active space mission that's exploring a whole new unseen world (or, in the case of the rovers, new unseen landscapes and vistas).

This is exactly why I think such images are important - they tell a story, letting us "ride along." Even if there is no discernible difference yet day to day, the ability to check in to see if we can see anything connects us with the mission and provides a narrative with which to engage others.

It's kinda like twitter - each single post or image may not convey much or be earth (or dwarf planet) shaking in itself, but the constant contact reinforces the relationship between us and the mission.

Anyway, I do remember the days of sending away in the mail for black and white prints or hoarding the National Geographics. So it is a sign of how good we have it that we expect daily updates from our space probes.

[tanjent]

Just to play the Devil's advocate:

If you want to maximize the attention Dawn claims from the man or woman on the street,
is it better to ratchet up the image detail step by step, or blast them with a fully detailed
view of the new world all in one shot?

Yes I want to see those approach pictures badly, but for someone who doesn't know that Dawn even
exists, could the approach images have an inoculation effect and actually reduce the overall public
profile of the mission. Are there any advertising executives active on this site who could comment
on this? For example, how would Steve Jobs handle the Dawn photo release?

[Astro0]

Jobs' would stick an Apple logo on it, tell you that it's better than the previous asteroid version even though it has no craters on it and is incompatible with other space debris

From a marketing approach, I agree that the broader public is more likely to want to have that 'bang' here's asteroid Vesta fully resolved and beautiful.
Sadly they'll still go *yawn* "So what!?". For that audience there is little interest in either increasing pixels or hi-res shots.

Where the images of DAWN's approach would be useful is through their use by Outreach professionals.
As has been said above, building the anticipation of the journey/approach is important. It helps build the story and the relationship with the viewer.
Using a series of approach images and comparing it to a simulation or a side by side with Hubble's observations and other projected views all help with developing the interest.

If people can be a part of the story by seeing what the scientist sees then they make an investment in continuing find out more as the story develops.

[tanjent]

Well, if is some kind of scripted marketing ploy, I suppose we, the core constituency, have an assigned role to play not unlike what we are actually doing.
Dawn's mysterious PR consultant is likely counting on us to raise a clamor and be like the fans who are photographed pitching their tents impatiently outside the theaters fighting for tickets to this "world premiere" screening. That would make this one case where it's definitely OK to complain, and the louder the better.

To extend the iPhone analogy, at some point (hint, hint...) they might let a supposedly "stolen" photograph slip out and we could have a controversy about whether it's authentic or not. Somebody on the inside at DSN could be observed showing it off in a bar after hours...

[SFJCody]

http://www.dawn.mps.mpg.de/typo3temp/pics/597c539696.jpg

http://www.dawn.mps.mpg.de/typo3temp/pics/df12f3db68.jpg

http://www.dawn.mps.mpg.de/typo3temp/pics/f260f082ba.jpg


I see neither rhyme nor reason in these image names. Shame, was considering giving wget a go (hey, it worked on Cassini before they started releasing the raw images... )

[centsworth_II]

...for someone who doesn't know that Dawn even exists, could the approach images have an inoculation effect and actually reduce the overall public profile of the mission....

Don't worry. Every approach shot could be released to the DAWN website and 99 percent of the public would remain blissfully unaware until they were slapped in the face by a widespread press release photo of Vesta in all her glory. At which time perhaps 10 percent of the public would become aware.

But that 1 percent of the public that wishes to see each and every image is an important group. They act as unofficial ambassadors to the general public, pointing out and explaining with enthusiasm aspects of missions that do make it to the general press, going into deeper detail where interest warrants.

[djellison]

Marketing and Outreach are not the same. There is some marketing within the best practices of Media Relations, but that's not outreach either.

This isn't a case of trying to 'sell' something. We're already sold. What we want now is the product to be delivered. We've already paid for it.

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

In the past NASA have had "Solar System Ambassadors" - enthusiastic amateurs that have gone out to the public/classrooms with education in mind. I think they could try a similar thing in regards to getting high quality images out to the public/media etc. Of course, it would only work in there is no embargo on public access to images, but if they can't release/process lots of images because they don't have time it could be a solution. There might have to be some strict guidelines on how the images can be processed perhaps. The work people here have done with MER mages is a good example.

I don't think there would be any shortage of volunteers though.

[Norm Hartnett]

The silence seems to be drawing some attention.

http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/06/why-is-jpl-sitt.html

[belleraphon1]

Am sending the same message to Emily's blog email (so the email can be counted).

I was around for the early missions of exploration …..

There was always tremendous excitement for me in seeing the Mariner, Viking, Voyager image releases. But also great frustration that these image releases had to wait for when team scientists thought a release was appropriate. Back in those pre digital pre internet days there really was no other way to do this.

But now, in the days of internet, there is no excuse for holding onto images. The thrill of discovery is not in ‘pretty pictures’. It is in seeing a dot grow large in the field of view, as ‘non-optimized’ as the exposures may be.

Releasing images as soon as possible lets us all truly ride along and invests far more of our imaginations and ‘spirit’ in the mission itself. We grow to feel a real part of the discovery process. We get invested in the vision, we become ardent advocates for the mission.

Holding onto images is old school thinking.

DAWN Team - Please release images as often as possible. Let us all ride along together.

Craig

[jsheff]

I totally share the desire to see as many images as possible, even the uneventful opnav images. Not being in the loop as far as the thinking inside the mission goes, it's hard to say what's going on. It occurs to me that from the viewpoint of the mission investigators, it would be easy to see the public in a monolithic way; there's us and there's them. I'm not saying they are antagonistic to us - not at all. It's just that, from their point of view, they may not be troubled to make the distinction between, say, UMSF members and Joe the Plumber. In other words, they may not know enough about us or appreciate what we can do. What they may not realize is that , as someone else pointed out, they don't have to sell US on how cool the mission is. We KNOW how cool the mission is.

[jsheff]

Actually, the Flight Operations Team has been very good about keeping the public informed, with the periodic Dawn Journals. And they seem to appreciate the importance of these first blurry images. Here's Marc Rayman from the latest Dawn Journal:

"So far, the images reveal little more than the desired important information of where Vesta appears against the background of stars. And yet, in a sense they show much more. After its long and lonely voyage through the vast emptiness of interplanetary space, most of the time far from anything but bits of dust and the occasional insignificant rock, an alien world is finally coming into view. Although too far now to do more than illuminate a handful of pixels in the camera, the small disc of Vesta stands out as the brightest and largest object visible to the explorer except the master of the solar system, the sun. The pictures are visible proof of Dawn's progress from an intriguing concept not so many years ago to a distant spaceship about to orbit an uncharted protoplanet, the second most massive body between Mars and Jupiter."

So, yes, more, please!


- John Sheff
Cambridge, MA

[Bjorn Jonsson]

I thought image release policies like Dawn's had become a thing of the past but clearly I was wrong.

As Discovery missions, NEAR (an old example) and Messenger (a recent example) are nice examples of how things can be done. In both cases some early low-res images were released shortly after they were obtained. It was interesting to see them, especially when knowing that in a few days/weeks one would know more about the nature of some tantalizing markings visible in the early images.

The single Dawn image that has been released is interesting. It may even show some hints of Vesta's nonspherical shape (but I wouldn't bet my money on it). And even if not, by now Vesta's nonspherical shape should be obvious in recent images. Some very large scale markings are probably visible as well. Once the resolution equals HST's resolution things get *really* interesting. Seeing the tantalizing and fuzzy features of the early images gradually 'evolve' into something well resolved is one of the exciting things about following these missions.

Never in my adult life have I been able to follow a space mission as it discovered a large new world for the first time.

The last (and in fact also the first) time this happened to me was back in 1989 when Voyager 2 encountered Neptune and Triton. I didn't see any images from that flyby until I received an issue of Sky & Telescope a few months later. Not since back in 1989 has a really big world been explored for the first time from close range. And I'm getting a sense of deja vu: Despite some changes over these 22 years (in particular the Internet/WWW) in a way I feel like it's 1989 again.

One thing though: I'm not a US citizen so maybe I shouldn't be complaining. But I'm pretty sure there are Americans that share my opinions on this issue.

For example, how would Steve Jobs handle the Dawn photo release?

By changing the name of the mission to iDawn.

[ElkGroveDan]

For example, how would Steve Jobs handle the Dawn photo release?

By changing the name of the mission to iDawn.

...and replacing all the controls with just one button.

[lyford]

Actually, the Flight Operations Team has been very good about keeping the public informed, with the periodic Dawn Journals.

I have to say that I have enjoyed these immensely and look forward to Marc Rayman's writing each month. Very informative and I have learned quite a bit since they started in 2006!

[Decepticon]

Im not to worried about pics yet.


When dawns resolution surpasses HST is when I start get annoyed at no images.

[djellison]

Then get worried - that's right about now.

[Juramike]

I wrote to a member of the Dawn E/PO Team and received this very promising message:

"We look forward to you and others like you participating in Dawn. We have been waiting nearly four years to get to Vesta and we, too, can't wait to see what this world looks like when we finally get there. Dawn certainly plans to release more images. During the early phase (on approach), the plan is to release them in sets. A high-volume stream of imagery will begin at the heart of the mission, when science gathering begins in the survey orbit, in early August. Currently, the images are only being used for navigation."

[djellison]

Currently, the images are only being used for navigation."

I don't believe for one second that they are only taking starfield like Nav imagery, now their resolving power at Vesta is matching and hereafter exceed Hubble.

[ElkGroveDan]

It's really just a case of them wanting to have a big press event and unveil the first pictures to the world with a flourish; "Behold! a new world -- Vesta!." It's unfortunate when egos and theatrics come ahead of science and discovery, especially when we the American taxpayers bought and paid for that craft and its images. I'll be making that point several times when I'm in Washington next month meeting with the staff of Mr. Palazzo and others.

[tanjent]

Marc Rayman provides great commentary, and I appreciate the humor even as I cringe. But Marc is on the engineering side, so I doubt he feels any personal stake in how and when the images are released. I won't expect any clarification from him about that policy; even if he does know what's going on, he wouldn't be the science team's chosen spokesman. I badly want to see those approach images in real time, and the marketing speculations expressed above are just my best attempt to frame the recent lack of images in an optimistic way.

The trouble with the taxpayer argument is that the enthusiasts on this site only paid for a tiny fraction of the mission's cost - most of it came from people for whom the mission doesn't rate nearly so high a priority. "Outreach" to me is a longer-term strategy addressed mainly to the next generation. It's harder to take a jaded adult and re-awaken that sense of discovery, but they are the ones who do most of the paying. Any "marketing" strategy that will make today's hard-pressed taxpayers sit up and take a little pride that they have paid for something truly wonderful - that would be a sacrifice I'd happily make if it really seemed that a sudden dramatic unveiling was the best way to go.

Does Vesta have that potential to accomplish a marketing breakthrough? Unfortunately, the scale of rocky asteroids is hard to gauge when they are just hanging out all by themselves in empty space. For somebody who has not been paying close attention, I wonder if Vesta will have any features that clearly make it more spectacular than Rosetta, or even Eros or Itokawa. Ceres, with its ice, will be something entirely new - like finding Greenland or Antarctica up there in the sky. Whatever happens here, the Ceres visit will probably offer the best public showcase for robotic space travel since Voyager. The current encounter may prove scientifically very rich, but in terms of publicity, perhaps a dress rehearsal.

(Oh, and great news from Mike while I was responding to the earlier stuff! )

[djellison]

Whatever happens here, the Ceres visit will probably offer the best public showcase for robotic space travel since Voyager.

It's impossible to draw comparisons between missions in that way. One could argue MER is the best showcase for robotic space exploration. Or Cassini. Or any number of missions.

The crime here is that there are ever increasingly great images of this unexplored world being taken but not being shared with the public - it is an exquisit opportunity to engage and inspire the public....and for whatever reason they're forgoing that opportunity and revert to old-school media policy.

[ElkGroveDan]

The trouble with the taxpayer argument is that the enthusiasts on this site only paid for a tiny fraction of the mission's cost - most of it came from people for whom the mission doesn't rate nearly so high a priority.

I don't want to get into a political debate here (or I'll have to delete my own comments and suspend myself), suffice it to say that you are incorrect in assuming that a small community of citizen advocates cannot engage in effective advocacy. This is in fact precisely what the Planetary Society was created for, and we'll leave any further discussion on that topic for the TPS site.

ADMIN: and that's the last word on the lobbying aspect of the discussion.

[Bunker9603]

I sent several emails to members of the DAWN team. So far this is the only response received:

Dear Rick,

Thanks for your interest in Dawn. We're glad you and many others are excited about Dawn and hope you'll stay with us through the entire mission. Right now, Dawn is still in its approach phase, so the heart of the Vesta rendezvous has not yet begun. We will have a high volume of imagery available starting around the time Dawn gets into "survey orbit," its first science orbit, at the beginning of August. The mission is committed to making images public. As you know, Dawn is a modestly sized project and the mission folks are focused right now on making sure everything is ready for our Vesta visit.


Best,
Jia-Rui


Jia-Rui C. Cook
Media Relations Specialist
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory
4800 Oak Grove Drive
Pasadena, CA 91109-8099

[nprev]

Hmm. So minimal manpower is the possible reason for the slow release rate? If so, I wonder if they'd be amenible to asking for volunteers to help them do it.

(I would, however, expect that they'd ask any volunteers to enter into some sort of non-disclosure agreement in order to assure that the investigators themselves get first crack at the findings.)

[Decepticon]

Then get worried - that's right about now.

Not according to Marc Rayman. He states 2nd week of June.

Its only June 4.

[djellison]

The second week in June starts in <48hrs

Vesta is about 13 pixels across right about now.