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Posted by: djellison Dec 14 2004, 11:15 PM

Right - I'm actually going to go ahead and try and get this thing made. I'm starting to make proper panoramas - a collection of probably a dozen for each rover - which will be submitted to the publishers as a portfolio and proof of concept.

However - for the best chance of being published - I need to know what people want - so.....ermm..whadda you want

I'm not going to do any 3d images. red-blue glasses just are NOT coffee table material - and as these rovers dont have Green+Blue in the right eye - it's not easy to make colour anaglyphs

But - I am going to do several mosaics - and a few individual images - but 99% pancam. Do you think I should use Navcam as well? What about Hazcam? What sort of text descriptor would you like for each image - perhaps a diary type format - or collate all the text at the back as a sol-by-sol account.

Do you want MOC images showing routes and image location and direction? etc.etc.etc.

Any and all ideas much appreciated - as they give me more idea of what will be acceptable when I come to present to a Publisher. I will initially be approaching Random House - whos inprint Jonathan Cape published 'Full Moon' here in the UK. If I have no luck there - I'll go to National Geogrpahic - who published a similar book called 'Orbit'.

I'll keep you all posted

Doug

Posted by: tedstryk Dec 14 2004, 11:50 PM

Is your book going to be only MER, or Mars from the surface, with a little from the Vikings and Pathfinder?

Posted by: djellison Dec 15 2004, 12:09 AM

MER onlyy - it's the first mission with t e ability to take images at a high enough resolution to do justice in print and stand on their own next to film camera images from Apollo etc.

Also - if I introduce other missions then i have 3,4,5 stories to tell.

Ultimately - this is a call that the publisher would make, however - but I dont see it diverging from mer + mgs-moc

Doig

Posted by: M_Welander Dec 15 2004, 12:35 AM

There are some spectacular views that - as far as I know - have only been covered with the navcams (take for example the recent cloud image panorama). Since a coffee table book is a lot about the look and less about pure science, I wouldn't mind the inclusion of processed navcam images (though the resolution might or might not be a problem). Using reference pancam images, producing good looking colorized panoramas from navcam images should not be a problem, if you're willing to spend a little time on it (which you obviously are, since you're seriously considering actually making a book). In fact, to me, the whole point in a coffee table book is that it should show beutiful things you usually don't see anywhere else (like in a purely scientific publication where synthesized data for obvious reasons are banned). Obviously, any such processing should be noted in the book, to avoid confusion.

Posted by: tedstryk Dec 15 2004, 01:01 AM

That is true, although the pathfinder set does have the one advantage of having images of a rover actually in situ on Mars. I look forward to seeing the book. I realize what to include and what to exclude can be difficult. I know on my website I am limited to 10 megs, which has led to some painful decisions.

Posted by: Sunspot Dec 15 2004, 01:45 AM

Images and panoramic mosaics providing the narrative story of Spirit and Opportunitys journey across Mars - perhaps accompanied by small captions.

How about including a few individual and mosaiced navcam images - some of the images of the rover tracks leading off into the distance are stunning and very evocative I think - and rocks that had the RAT brush applied to them - remember Humphry and Mazatzal? Martian rock art. Sunsets too ......and who knows what the etched terrain will look like

Posted by: tedstryk Dec 15 2004, 02:08 AM

I would certainly agree with the Navcam mix. If they can be colorized well enough to look natural, colorize them. If not, black and white is better than cheesy color.
There is a bit of an issue I can think of. There is no hurt in looking for a publisher or beginning to process images. But so far, the end is not in sight for the MER mission, particularly Opportunity. Who is to say that Opportunity won't be cruising until at least the next Martian winter? Spirit may too, although due to its power strains it is more likely to die soon. Of course, both rovers could die tomorrow. I would strongly recommend you wait until the mission of both rovers ends before completing such a book, as it would, even by the time of press, be extremely dated otherwise.

Posted by: djellison Dec 15 2004, 08:06 AM

Oh - yes - I have every intention of doing that. Although - if I do find a publisher who says "I want to go with this for next Christmas" - then I'll simply do one earth year's worth ( A year on mars....) - and then a follow up when they die.

But yes - Its the one thing that will hold this up - is the damn things not falling over

Just had a VERY encouraging email from Jim Bell, who says he likes a few sample images I sent him and is glad to see someone taking the time and effort to use the proper PDS Archives.

I'm resolved now that if I dont get my own book together - I WILL get my images published somehow. I owe the MER team that as thankyou and recognition of their efforts!

Doug

Posted by: Rxke Dec 16 2004, 01:00 PM

Wish list:

-Stuff with whispy clouds, heehee! (I'm pretty serious, though. I think this is important to add )

-Some Spirit 'in the hills' panorama's with the faraway terrain just visible...

-The 'berries' plane. With induvidual berries visible near the camera, stretching out into the distance.

Hazcam or other pics of the rovers' shadow near sunset.


And a gazillion other ones, of course. The more, the merier!

Posted by: MizarKey Dec 16 2004, 07:06 PM

Wish list:

A page showing perhaps 9 or 16 images of Spirit driving away from the lander platform.

The view of Eagle crater from the other side of Endurance

Nice panorama of Fram crater.

Those images from Bonneville showing the rim of Gustev and other hills.

Some of those eclipse images of Phobos and Deimos (sure they're small, but they were cool).

I've saved a bunch of images, I'll go through them for some ideas, when I get time.

I fully encourage you to publish a separate 3-D specific book, I know that's one of the most exciting aspects of the MER mission for me.

Looking forward to owning an autographed copy of the coffee table book (wink wink nudge nudge).

Eric P / MizarKey

Posted by: paxdan Apr 22 2005, 05:50 PM

Doug

I am looking forward to a full moon style book of MER imagery (use the MGS and MOC imagery sparingly). I'll definitely be pre-ordering my copy. As for a wish list:

Style/Layout:: I love square format books that allow pictures to be presented full frame. My two favorite space books that have upped the ante with regard to presentation have been Full Moon by Michael Light and Beyond: visions of the interplanetary probes by Michael Benson. The books differ in the details but have the same basic layout. i would like to see the images presented in the book with a very basic legend (perhaps just MER A/B, sol x, and location) then at the back of the book, in a seperate section, have a thumbnail of the image at the end with more detail, e.g., Picture code number, number of frames, time of day or spread of time over which the pans were taken, processing technique, POV-Ray or PTgui, story behind the image, perhaps a MOC contex map and labelled version of image, rock names, etc.

Images:: As for the images themselves my preference is for images that have aesthetic value. The images that are jaw droppingly beautiful and instill a sense of wonder. I think perhaps the most evocative of all the mars images are some of the accidentally perfectly composed single frame NAV- and PAN-cam pictures. There have been a few (and i mean very few) of them that i'm sure you could hang on a wall in an art gallery. I also love the large mosaics, however, please crop them all square or all a certain aspect ratio (please don't present images in anything more than three basic formats, e.g., single page square, double page spread or four pages accross gatefold. One of the most pleasing things about Full moon is the square format used throughout. Simplicity of layout and using the same aspect ratios for images implies confidence about your material, and always improves the apperance. Whatever you do please dont leave any uncropped edges of mosaics that reveal where the individual frames are. I'm a sucker for minimalism.

Couple of other favorites i love those high quality PAN-cam polar self portratraits taken showing the relative ammounts of dust on the pannels.

Another suggestion/request:: Have you considered expanding the book project, doubling-up. Why make one book when you can make two? You could do a two volume set, one for each MER. Identical style etc, but emphasize that these are two seperate locations on one planet. Potentially you could sell each for the price of a combined volume. I'd pay 25-30 quid for a single volume if it was sufficient quality and if you pull pull out all the stops i can see a single volume going for 25 quid each or 35-45 for the pair. Do a box set: Spirit, Opportunity and the Exploration of Mars with a volume dedidated to each MER. In many ways seperating the image and the story provides a better opportunity to tell each story through imagery.

Please aim for the definitive hard-back coffee-table work of art for this phase of Mars exploration. I, for one, am very much looking forward to seeing what you do. Aim high, thats all I can ask.

I'm sure i speak for all of the board when i say we are all rooting for you with this book project.

Posted by: Bill Harris May 4 2005, 12:54 PM

Good idea, Doug.

The coffee table book should be aimed at those who are interested in Mars and not those of us who have followed the Rovers since before Day One. You'll have to capture the former audience; the latter, you have assured sales.

I'd start with a brief history of imaging Mars: early 1800-1900's drawings, early Earth-based photography up to CCD imaging, Hubble imagery, then to spacecraft imaging-- Mariner through MOC and closing with landers-- Viking through Pathfinder. Give a description the MER hardware and then present the wonderful imagery produced by our Intrepid Heroes. You might want to include a brief description of the geology/geomorphology of the two areas to give the audience a background of how the things we see got there.

Good luck!

--Bill

Posted by: Astrophil May 4 2005, 04:43 PM

Since _Beyond_ has been mentioned, my edn (which I got for Christmas 2004) has one panorama in from the rovers, I think - a view of Endurance. That's not to say I'd not be keen on a whole book of them.

Speaking of Endurance, that dune in the bottom of it is really amazing. Even the b/w pictures of details it are just hypnotic, they look like they're done in charcoals or something.

Posted by: lyford May 4 2005, 07:07 PM

I still think you should make it trapezoidal in shape so it can unfold like the solar panels...

Posted by: PhilCo126 Dec 31 2005, 01:11 PM

Superb idea & initiative Doug ...
Where are You for the moment with this ?
As Bill proposed, a short introduction about mapping & imaging the planet Mars would be great!
I would be glad to help You out with the texts for this as I already wrote some articles on mapping the planet Mars and its moons Phobos & Deimos
Just send me a message

Posted by: Bob Shaw Dec 31 2005, 01:26 PM

The joys of .PDF files and on-line publishers like http://www.lulu.com/ are that it's now quite possible to produce low print run, high quality publications. These might range from the magazine style UMSF Journal right up to a series of hardback, full colour books.

I bet with all the talent here that UMSF could support at least an annual publication...

Bob Shaw

Posted by: craigmcg Dec 31 2005, 03:54 PM

It would be nice if the book included a reference linking the route map with each picture.

Posted by: djellison Dec 31 2005, 05:39 PM

Lulu looks very interesting, but two shortcomings so far...

1) They dont do colour in a hardback
2) They wont do the international marketing package for a any colour book.

If they did those...and borderless printing...I'd do it in a second

Doug

Posted by: PhilCo126 Jan 1 2006, 11:26 AM

Using the route map for each rover is a must so readers can understand what the rover did and where/when the panoramas were taken (I'm always using the traverse map photo for my MER articles in BIS spaceflight magazine ).
A lay-out such as ' Full Moon ' would be nice, but for the MER panoramas I guess fold-out pages could be necessary ( thus the need for good glossy paper ? )
... ... ...

Posted by: djellison Jan 1 2006, 12:20 PM

Oh - traverse maps are a given. Obviosuly, I cant start until, basically, the rovers die

Full Moon has fold outs I dont intend in doing more than about 120 degrees in a single panorama. I dont like the full 360's, they dont make sense layed out infront of you. I'd rather do 3 x 120 degrees than one 360

Doug

Posted by: DDAVIS Jan 1 2006, 11:20 PM

[quote=Bob Shaw,Dec 31 2005, 01:26 PM]
The joys of .PDF files and on-line publishers like

Printing quality can be an unknown unless a publisher specializing in coffee table books takes on the job. I would urge not allowing landscapes to be placed across opposing pages so the 'gutter' obscures some of the middle. A square format book like The Universe and Beyond' by Terence Dickenson uses artwork and photographs beautifully in that format.
A CD of high res copies of the images and mosaics used, placed in a packet in the back cover, would be a nice added touch so people could print up their own panoramas for their walls. This would also prevent a printing quality disaster from wrecking the usefulness of such a document.

Don

Posted by: Steffen Jan 2 2006, 10:16 AM

Good idea Doug: use of partial panoramas
Good idea Don: adding a CD-ROM

Posted by: PhilCo126 Jan 2 2006, 05:24 PM

I have to agree with both ideas/proposals ... but why wait untill the MER die ?

Posted by: djellison Jan 2 2006, 06:32 PM

Because then it wont be the full story. Imainge if Chakin's excllent "From the Earth to the Moon" finished after Apollo 14.

Doug

Posted by: ustrax Jan 3 2006, 02:22 PM

Doug, have you read this?:


http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060103/NEWS02/601030335

Posted by: djellison Jan 3 2006, 02:35 PM

Oh - I've known about Jims book plan for some time, and he has given me his blessing to do my own book as well. What I'm aiming for is very very specific, and nothing published or planned is similar as far as I know.

Doug

Posted by: PhilCo126 Jan 3 2006, 02:37 PM

Let's hope so Doug ... looking forward to Your work

Posted by: ustrax Jan 3 2006, 02:41 PM

It will be great to have both on our hands!

Posted by: chris Jan 4 2006, 09:55 AM

Doug,

One idea, which I think I may have mentioned before, based on many hours spent looking at "Full Moon". Provide some kind of foldout that allows the pictures to remain as large as possible, but allows the reader to find the details of the picture without having to constantly flip to the back of the book.

Chris

Posted by: PhilCo126 Jan 7 2006, 07:43 PM

With " general public " interest being low for the MER missions, the release time of the book would be crucial for its sale!
A good moment would be just a few weeks before Christmas ( 2006 or 2007 ? ) so it could be a great gift for that period of the year

Posted by: Marz Jan 25 2006, 04:32 PM

I'd imagine "general public" interest in MER will, perhaps ironically, spike again when one of the rovers fails, and a huge spike will occur when Phoenix lands... so maybe time is on your side?

What I'd like to see in a coffe-table MER book (in addition to stunning photos):
1. A description of the discoveries and what they mean
2. How the landing sites met the expectations of the scientists who argued for their selection.
3. How MER is impacting NASA's future mission goals in Follow the Water .

Not much focus on the rovers at all, except for the onboard experiments, or when something dramatic happened, like Purgatory. I'd prefer any technical details about the MER themselves to just be embedded factoids, rather than dedicating a chapter to the engineering design and capabilities behind them. The focus should be on what they encounted, not the nuts and bolts that made it possible (which I imagine is covered in detail already in Roving Mars).

Posted by: DFinfrock Feb 8 2006, 01:24 AM

Take one look at the new images from Home Plate. Then you'll see why Doug *has* to wait until the MERS die. You can't leave part of the story untold.

David

Posted by: PhilCo126 Feb 8 2006, 03:05 PM

O.K. David but don't underestimate the work involved in preparing such a book !
Working on it now and adding interesting things at the end-of-life of the MERs will be easier then to start after the end-of-mission of both 'golf carts'

Posted by: djellison Feb 8 2006, 03:39 PM

Who said I'm not

Doug

Posted by: PhilCo126 Feb 9 2006, 07:17 AM

Great to hear this !


By The Way, a fellow ' unmanned spaceflight ' buff I know is preparing a book on unmanned spaceflight and I'm trying to convince him to post on this forum

Posted by: paxdan Apr 20 2006, 10:15 AM

*cough*http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=2610&view=findpost&p=51264 *cough*

Posted by: djellison Apr 20 2006, 10:29 AM

I don't intend to colourise monochrome images for it - I'm trying to document as well as possible the images they took. It's just a smidge of artistic interpretation too much for me - I love that image, don't get me wrong, I'll be using it in my talk to the BAA on Sat. AM as the only Spirit image in an Opportunity talk just to mention Spirit's current state of health, but that's not the image the rover actually took . But that mosaic in B'n'W is certainly on my list of contenders - it'll be Christmas time before I get the raw data for it though. Who knows - there may be even better mosaics of that area at low-sun angles before we leave the 'sunbed' of winter.

The other issue is that a colour page costs more to print than a black and white page - and when it comes to spending on the colour, I'd rather it were colour taken at the time than suggestive artistic colour. Possibly an unpopular choice but if and when I get this book done, I think it'll be the better for it.

My next 'wish for' is MRO HiRISE imagery to act as basemaps for fold out route maps front and back.

Doug

Posted by: PhilCo126 May 19 2006, 07:27 AM

Well, there's a separate topic on the TOP-20 photos of the Mars Exploration Rovers ... that could certainly help

Posted by: monitorlizard May 22 2006, 01:20 AM

One thing I always wanted to see in a Mars book was a modern map of the planet
with an acetate overlay of Lowell's Mars canals to see what (admittedly weak) correlations
there were. The World Book Encyclopedia yearbooks used to have fold-in acetate overlays
for various articles, but they never did the Mars thing.

Posted by: David May 22 2006, 02:21 AM

Lowell's canals were pretty much of his own imagining; he projected canals onto any body he observed, even those with no surface features at all. But some of the canals drawn by earlier observers do have albedo feature correlates, though more by way of corresponding to nexuses where canals meet rather than the canals themselves - most canals were illusory attempts to connect barely visible dots into visually meaningful patterns. But in some cases (e.g. Syrtis Major) there have been very considerable movements of the darker surface material, and some of the albedo features observed by observers of the late 19th/early 20th century may not exist any more, at least in the location, size, and shape that they were observed.

Posted by: ustrax Jun 1 2006, 07:47 PM

Doug...Any guess on the date of the so waited publication?...

Posted by: djellison Jun 1 2006, 07:54 PM

Any guess when the rovers will stop working?

I can't start thinking about one till the other happens.

Doug

Posted by: ustrax Jun 1 2006, 09:12 PM

Oh I see...By then paper will be an archeological relique...

Can't wait for the smell of those pages...

Posted by: tedstryk Jun 3 2006, 02:45 PM

I hope you are right...I still think it would be cool if one or both MERs outlive Phoenix.

Posted by: centsworth_II Jun 3 2006, 05:10 PM

I can't wait to see FOUR operational rovers on Mars after Exo Mars and MSL get there.

Posted by: Astro0 Nov 17 2006, 05:43 AM

Did I miss this posted elsewhere?

Jim Bell's new book hits the stores.
http://www.postcardsfrommarsbook.com/buy.html

I think I'll have to buy at least two.
Cheers
Astro0

Posted by: PhilCo126 Nov 17 2006, 03:14 PM

We talked about this in the UMSF books topic