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Enceladus-3 (March 12, 2008)
Guest_AlexBlackwell_*
post Feb 24 2006, 09:12 PM
Post #1





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Excerpt from Cassini Significant Events for 02/16/06 - 02/22/06:

"As mentioned in previous weeks, the project has been working on adopting a new reference trajectory in order to raise the minimum Titan flyby altitude for various encounters. Today the project reached a decision to proceed with the 'optocc2' trajectory. Additional work is still to be performed before delivery of the final files. This will include minor tweaks that have been analyzed in other trajectories, adjusting orbit 68 timing, and capture of an Enceladus plume occultation on orbit 28."

For the record, the new reference trajectory will result in an even more spectacular Enceladus-3 flyby [61EN (t) E3] on March 12, 2008.
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Mar 11 2006, 10:53 PM
Post #2





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The NEP idea -- which would orbit Saturn and fly through the Enceladan plume several times to collect a sample for return -- is what Oberg was talking about in his article. But it would obviously be expensive as hell.

The vastly cheaper idea of flying by Enceladus once and then returning to Earth is a longer range version of Chris McKay's "Europa Ice Clipper", and it might very well be worth doing even for one sample. It wouldn't even need to include the complex requirement, for Europa, of dropping an impactor on Europa and then making sure it flew through the impact-debris plume -- and it wouldn't necessarily need nuclear power; there's already been a proposal for a solar-powered Saturn entry probe flyby mission based on the "INSIDE Jupiter" design, but with 4 solar panels instead of two (and without the big JOI propulsion system). Basically, we would just be flying a duplicate of Stardust -- but with much bigger solar panels -- through the Saturn system and then back to Earth. We're definitely talking about a New Frontiers-class mission, and I have no doubt that people are already thinking about proposing it for the next New Frontiers AO. The catch might be whether Saturn's gravity would be strong enough to allow a hairpin-turn direct return to Earth -- but it might well be workable, instead, to arrange a gravity-assist flyby of Jupiter on the way back INTO the Solar System to finish bending the returning craft's orbit all the way back into the inner Solar System. (The craft would initially have been launched directly from Earth to Saturn, which our stable of ELVs could easily do.)

Parenthetically, there was still some interest at the Europa meeting in dropping an impactor onto Europa and either analyzing or actually collecting the resultant debris plume. C.A. Hibbitts gave a talk on a concept whereby Europa Orbiter would drop a large impactor onto Europa (maybe during one of its multiple orbit-trimming flybys of Europa in Jupiter orbit, before it finally brakes into orbit around Europa itself), take spectra of the resultant flash, and later photograph the fresh crater from Europa orbit -- that is, an Europan version of Deep Impact.

Afterwards I had a long and interesting talk with him about variations on this idea. His idea is to try to analyze material from below the radiation-modified layer -- but he agreed that it's open to question whether long-range IR spectra could properly analyze any organics dug up by the impact. It might be better to have the craft actually fly through the debris plume and analyze it directly with a dust-impact mass spectrometer. (In any case, his impactor would be a substitute for a small piggyback lander on Europa Orbiter -- but see more on that below.)

And it might be better still to have a separate mission that would fly through the Jupiter system without stopping, drop such a really big impactor onto Europa, fly through and collect some of the impact plume debris, and then double back to Earth with it -- that is, Europa Ice Clipper, but with a much bigger (and actively guidable) Deep Impact-type impactor. I've been thinking about this idea for some time, and it turned out that he has too. Again, this is a New Frontiers-class mission -- and if Europa Orbiter really does get hung up fiscally, it might be advisable to fly it first.

One thing we finally did agree on, though, is that one of the optional goals we'd both been thinking about for such an impactor -- using a descent camera on it to get those super-closeup views of Europan surface terrain which may be important to properly design the landing system for a big Europa Astrobiology Lander -- probably wouldn't be practical. In order to have time to return the last few really close descent images just before the craft hits the surface, you need a lander that can survive landing and play back the images after landing -- a crash-lander probably wouldn't be able to return any images of Europa's surface better than the final ones from the Ranger missions, whose resolution wasn't any better than the images we can get from orbit anyway using a HiRISE-type camera of the type that's already very likely to be carried on Europa Orbiter.
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- AlexBlackwell   Enceladus-3 (March 12, 2008)   Feb 24 2006, 09:12 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   It was casually confirmed in one of the new EGU ab...   Feb 25 2006, 04:03 AM
- - volcanopele   Even though the encounter distance is closer, don...   Feb 25 2006, 04:12 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Feb 25 2006, 04:12 A...   Feb 27 2006, 04:13 PM
|- - Holder of the Two Leashes   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Feb 24 2006, 10:12 P...   Feb 27 2006, 04:40 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Check this out: http://drudgereport.com/flash8na....   Mar 9 2006, 06:42 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Mar 9 2006, 11:42 AM...   Mar 9 2006, 07:37 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Mar 9 2006, 07:37 PM...   Mar 9 2006, 07:43 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   TWENTY-FIVE KM?!! You guys are really taki...   Mar 9 2006, 09:36 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 9 2006, 10:36 PM...   Mar 9 2006, 09:42 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 9 2006, 09:36 PM...   Mar 9 2006, 09:47 PM
||- - volcanopele   Technically, that number is official (well, it isn...   Mar 9 2006, 10:12 PM
|||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Mar 9 2006, 10:12 PM...   Mar 9 2006, 10:17 PM
|||- - EccentricAnomaly   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Mar 9 2006, 02:12 PM...   Mar 10 2006, 04:43 AM
|||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (EccentricAnomaly @ Mar 10 2006, 04...   Mar 10 2006, 04:26 PM
|||- - JRehling   Various notes: However we might wring our hands o...   Mar 10 2006, 05:32 PM
|||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 10 2006, 05:32 PM) ...   Mar 10 2006, 06:07 PM
|||- - RGClark   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 10 2006, 05:32 PM) ...   Mar 10 2006, 06:26 PM
||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 9 2006, 09:47 ...   Mar 15 2006, 08:38 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 9 2006, 02:36 PM...   Mar 9 2006, 10:23 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Mar 9 2006, 11:23 ...   Mar 9 2006, 10:34 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (ugordan @ Mar 9 2006, 03:34 PM) Yo...   Mar 10 2006, 06:37 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   Passing at 25 kms of Enceladus would be very inter...   Mar 9 2006, 11:05 PM
|- - DDAVIS   To take images? Wow fantastic images from such an ...   Mar 9 2006, 11:38 PM
- - Sunspot   I think this is the highest resolution image taken...   Mar 9 2006, 11:49 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Sunspot @ Mar 9 2006, 03:49 PM) I ...   Mar 10 2006, 12:04 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Unfortunately, as Jason noted back on his own (sor...   Mar 10 2006, 05:01 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 10 2006, 06:01 A...   Mar 10 2006, 08:44 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 10 2006, 05:01 A...   Mar 10 2006, 03:52 PM
|- - EccentricAnomaly   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 9 2006, 09:01 PM...   Mar 10 2006, 05:57 PM
- - gpurcell   If the E-Ring is caused by the venting, why not tr...   Mar 10 2006, 07:13 PM
- - tty   Isn’t landing on Enceladus an unnecessarily compli...   Mar 10 2006, 07:24 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (tty @ Mar 10 2006, 08:24 PM) Isn’t...   Mar 10 2006, 07:41 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 10 2006, 03:52...   Mar 10 2006, 07:24 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 10 2006, 07:24 P...   Mar 10 2006, 07:44 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 10 2006, 11:44...   Mar 10 2006, 08:12 PM
- - volcanopele   a few notes: E3 Imaging: Don't expect super h...   Mar 10 2006, 07:36 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Mar 10 2006, 07:36 P...   Mar 10 2006, 09:34 PM
|- - RGClark   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Mar 10 2006, 07:36 P...   Mar 10 2006, 10:48 PM
|- - RGClark   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Mar 10 2006, 07:36 P...   Mar 11 2006, 03:33 PM
|- - JRehling   One Enceladus mission I could see flying would be ...   Mar 11 2006, 06:58 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   OK. All I can report is what I saw: before Ms. Cl...   Mar 10 2006, 09:16 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 10 2006, 09:16 P...   Mar 10 2006, 10:15 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 10 2006, 10:15...   Mar 10 2006, 11:20 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 10 2006, 11:20 P...   Mar 10 2006, 11:51 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 10 2006, 11:51...   Mar 11 2006, 01:54 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (helvick @ Mar 11 2006, 01:54 AM) I...   Mar 11 2006, 02:00 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Fine -- especially since the whole damn thing was ...   Mar 11 2006, 02:50 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   I found Jason's blog entry from almost a year ...   Mar 11 2006, 11:19 AM
|- - EccentricAnomaly   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 11 2006, 03:19 A...   Mar 11 2006, 06:01 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   The NEP idea -- which would orbit Saturn and fly t...   Mar 11 2006, 10:53 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (EccentricAnomaly @ Mar 11 2006, 06...   Mar 12 2006, 11:30 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 12 2006, 04:30 P...   Mar 13 2006, 02:46 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 13 2006, 12:30 A...   Mar 13 2006, 08:38 AM
- - volcanopele   The planetary society Cassini tour page now has th...   Mar 15 2006, 10:06 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Mar 15 2006, 10:06 P...   Mar 15 2006, 10:19 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   I just read the materials in the 060323 Reference ...   Mar 28 2006, 09:26 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Can you tell us anything more about just what they...   Mar 29 2006, 01:11 AM
- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 29 2006, 01:11 A...   Mar 29 2006, 06:10 PM


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