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Posted by: PhilCo126 Apr 15 2008, 12:06 PM

Belgian newspapers had an article about the involvement of the Sochi Institute for Medical Primatology in Vesjoloje near the Black Sea and its idea of sending Monkeys on a " manned " Mars mission before humans would fly...

Posted by: jamescanvin Apr 15 2008, 03:16 PM

The BBC have an article of this as well

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7341211.stm

Posted by: imipak Apr 15 2008, 07:05 PM

I saw this as well, and just about covers it.

I hope they realise that, whilst they may not get much backlash from their domestic, uh, audience, it'd do the cause of space exploration no good at all... in fact it could be a real PR disaster for the wider community, and our collective hopes for future funding.

FWIW, I think it would be wrong as well as unhelpful on a practical level. No, I haven't thought through the ethical issues in any detail, and mebbe it's more complex than it appears at first glance, but... nah. I don't think so.

Posted by: Stu Apr 15 2008, 07:10 PM

Wow, the vodka was flowing freely that night, wasn't it?!?!

Haven't they seen the re-make of PLANET OF THE APES?! Look what happened when they shot the monkey into space at the start of that movie... !!!

Naaah. I'll have to get out my English-Russian dictionary to see how to say "Never Going To Happen" in Russian...

Posted by: nprev Apr 15 2008, 07:58 PM

Doesn't really look like they'll be simulating anything else but increased radiation flux; saw no mention of actually launching them for zero-gee exposure. (Come to that, how in heck would you keep monkeys alive for a couple of years in space unattended? For starters, they're sure not gonna learn how to use the vacuum toilet, and unless they were restrained--which surely would defeat many of the objectives of the experiment--they'd tear the ship up in short order. I'd give it like a week at the most.)

An overblown story, I'd say, and the animal rights activists are going to give them pure hell regardless...don't envy 'em at all.

Posted by: DFinfrock Apr 16 2008, 02:37 AM

I have to say... this is the most attention grabbing thread topic name I have ever seen on UMSF. But let's hope it doesn't go any further than these headlines.

Posted by: nprev Apr 16 2008, 02:53 AM

...yeah. If this was a 1950s B-movie title, I'd probably rent it...

Posted by: Holder of the Two Leashes Apr 16 2008, 03:13 AM

Great, just great. All the contamination issues of a manned flight (or more), with none of the benefits. That is, unless they can find a monkey with a degree in geology.

Posted by: nprev Apr 16 2008, 03:39 AM

Wasn't gonna go there, but pretty safe to vote on the side of "or more"..."filthy minkey!!!"...

Posted by: David Apr 16 2008, 04:20 AM

Would contamination be an issue for just a circummartian flight and return? I don't think that landing monkeys would even be possible.

Nobody ever sent monkeys to the Moon AFAIK. There was, however, a circumlunar flight of tortoises.

Posted by: Shaka Apr 16 2008, 06:19 AM

...circumlunar flight of tortoises

Never heard of it.
I guess all the media attention was on the flight of hares.


Edit: Russian monkeys to Mars
I guess this was inevitable. The LEO tourists weren't bad enough.

Posted by: Stu Apr 16 2008, 07:37 AM

It would happen, you know it would...

Posted by: ilbasso Apr 16 2008, 01:37 PM

I guess they figured that if Bigfoot could survive at the Gusev site, then...

Posted by: Holder of the Two Leashes Apr 16 2008, 02:53 PM

It's buried deep in the article, but here is the quote: Mars-500 director Viktor Baranov says 520 days "are enough for the flight to Mars - 250 days to fly there, 250 days to come back and a month for the landing on Mars".

Yeah. One misfiring rocket, bad parachute, software glitch, or all the above, and then we have a ton of monkey manure scattered from Xanthe to Hellas and back again. After that, we may as well use Mars for a landfill site.

BTW, I vaguely remember that one or more of the Zond flights did carry bio specimens, and that live tortoises were indeed among them.
EDIT: It was Zond 5 in September 1968. Zond 6 - which failed - might have had them, too.

Posted by: nprev Apr 16 2008, 07:49 PM

Good example, Stu. See, that astronaut is clearly using his waste handling system properly at that very moment, unlike a monkey...

Posted by: tedstryk Apr 17 2008, 12:52 AM

Zond-5 and Zond-6 were both partial successes. Zond-5's biological experiments suceeded, Zond-6 partially depressurized and then crashed, killing all the creatures on board. However, Zond-5's camera failed after some test photography of earth, while Zond-6 succeeded in photographing the moon (and most of the film survived the crash).

Posted by: GregM Apr 17 2008, 02:22 AM

(with all respects to Chuck Heston)

the first words spoken by humans on Mars in 40 years or so:

"Get your hands off of me, you damn dirty ape!"



On a more serious note, doing the Laika thing in this enlightened age would be nothing but a PR nightmare of the highest proportions.
Wwaaayyy to much vodka consumed the night they dreamed up that one.

Posted by: Greg Hullender Apr 17 2008, 04:03 AM

That must have been around the same time NASA was putting cows in orbit. The "Herd shot 'round the world."

--Greg :-)

Posted by: imipak Apr 17 2008, 07:44 AM

No no, I'm fine, it's just a touch of toothache...

Posted by: Holder of the Two Leashes Apr 17 2008, 08:30 PM

But you're forgetting the real purpose of these probes. They were to test out the Soyuz circumlunar manned missions. From that point of view, Zond 5 was an almost complete success (the cosmonauts would have lived to tell the tale) and Zond 6 was... otherwise.

Posted by: David Apr 18 2008, 02:54 AM

The Russians should have erected a monument to the turtles: those fine examples of Testudo sovietica beat the Americans to the Moon by 3 months!

Posted by: Shaka Apr 18 2008, 05:17 AM

Tortoises of the Moon, UNITE!

Posted by: Holder of the Two Leashes Apr 18 2008, 03:51 PM

The article mentioned that 40 monkeys would be selected for studies, but nowhere did it say how many might be sent to Mars.

As an appropriate number, I would guess that the Russians might send ...

12.

Posted by: lyford Apr 18 2008, 06:31 PM

With all this talk of tortoises in space, is anyone else thinking of Discworld?

(BTW, Doug, did you get to see Colour of Magic on SkyOne? Those of us across the pond are mighty jealous!)

Posted by: PhilCo126 May 18 2008, 09:19 PM

A few days ago I visited the Alamogordo museum of space history in New Mexico ( with the John Stapp air & space park ) and visited the grave stone of NASA's first space monkey HAM ( acronym for Holloman Aero Med ). I didn't realize HAM was buried at that site ( born in 1955 Cameroon, died in 1983 North Carolina Zoological Park ).

Posted by: nprev May 18 2008, 11:44 PM

Didn't know poor old Ham was there now. I used to go out to Alamading-dong (Holloman AFB, actually) quite a bit during the late '80s...would have paid my respects.

Posted by: PhilCo126 May 19 2008, 07:08 PM

The stories of both HAM and ENOS became a bit morbid after the astrochimps died. When HAM died at the National Zoological Park in Washington DC in January 1983, his body was turned over to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, where the carcass was photographed and necropsied. It looks like that the skin was given to the Aerospace Museum in Washington DC for a mounted specimen and that the remainder of the carcass was given for burial at the International Space Hall of Fame at Alamogordo, more precise at the foot of the flag poles. It was John Stapp who dedicated the small memorial garden and bronze plaque during the burial ceremony in New Mexico…
More info in:
Animals in Space: From Research Rockets to the Space Shuttle
Series: Springer Praxis Books
Subseries: Space Exploration
Burgess, Colin, Dubbs, Chris
2007, Approx. 350 p., 160 illus., Softcover.
ISBN: 0-387-36053-0

Posted by: nprev May 20 2008, 12:14 PM

I am glad that Ham has a memorial of some sort, in any case. Current research seems to indicate that chimps & hominids diverged evolutionarily not that long ago, and they are very self-aware creatures. It is proper to honor them.

Posted by: PFK May 26 2008, 09:56 PM

I guess if one of them does make it to that new world first, then it could claim to be a 21st century Christopher Colobus

Posted by: PhilCo126 May 30 2008, 09:16 AM

Well, here's the movie: http://www.spacechimpspower.com/

Posted by: PhilCo126 Jun 12 2008, 05:23 PM

BIS Spaceflight magazine July 2008 has a superb article by Joel Powell with unique photos " Monkey's ill-fated voyage " on the subject of the only living creature ever launched onboard a Delta Rocket: macaca monkey "Bonny" ... it flew onboard Delta Rocket 70 on 28 June 1969 for a longer orbital flight until 7 July 1969...