Here's hoping for a safe orbital entry...
Powerful Orbiting Camera Will Send Its First View of Mars to UA Soon
http://uanews.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/UANews.woa/8/wa/SRStoryDetails?ArticleID=12261
"HiRISE scientists will power the HiRISE camera the week of March 20. It will begin taking pictures 18 hours later, and it will take pictures during two orbits. NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory mission specialists will decide exactly which orbits will be HiRISE imaging orbits after Mars orbit insertion on March 10.
These will be the camera's only photos for the next six months because it will be turned off while the spacecraft "aerobrakes." This involves dipping repeatedly into the upper atmosphere to scrub off speed and drop into successively more circular orbits.
The camera will take pictures of the middle latitudes of the southern hemisphere, a region where many geologically recent gullies have been seen, gullies possibly carved by water. Researchers won't know the exact area they'll photograph until the spacecraft is safely captured into orbit around Mars.
The camera's first images will be taken when the MRO is flying between about 2,500 miles and 600 miles (4,000 km and 1,000 km) above the planet. After aerobraking, the camera will fly just outside the planet's atmosphere at only 190 miles (about 300 km) above the surface."
There's a conf at 1800 UT tonight, I'll listen in and see if anything's mentioned.
Doug
I've been watching the MOI from work today (and don't you know it, everything goes wrong here when the broadcast is in full swing ). Anyway, I suppose the next big thing to look for is this test of the three cameras, eh?
I didn't notice any more info about the exact date on the conference thread. Any news? I'm itching to see a HiRise image.
Joe, do you have a link to the press release that you quoted?
----crabbsaline
PS: This http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0307mars0307.html shows the date as post-19th:
A pity JPL won't try and get a shot of opportinty of negected Deimos.
The current schedule shows the imaging happening on 3/22, but I'm not sure when the downlinking of the images will be finished, and there's still some schedule uncertainty depending on how the transition into orbital operations proceeds. It'll probably be better nailed down by the end of this week.
Steve G said "A pity JPL won't try and get a shot of opportinty of negected Deimos."
Good point. Many folks don't appreciate how neglected it is. Our imaging coverage is very limited. The best images, which are very few, are all of one side. Most of the trailing side is seen in only one (yes, one... so not even stereo) high phase image. Anything new would be great. The highest priority ought to be the trailing side under different illumination conditions, to show topography better. That would allow a study of the relationship between the largest array of bright streaks and the otherwise completely unknown topography.
MOC took nice images of Phobos early in the mission during several close passes. After that I assumed there would be no more, but I was pleased to see an image taken later when Phobos was just over the limb of Mars. If that feat could be duplicated for Deimos we could get significant new information, despite the low resolution. And certainly a glimpse from MRO would be a real treat.
Of course, JPL is not in charge of HIRISE. Our buddies in Tucson would have to take care of that.
Phil
Mariner 9 never saw the trailing side of Deimos. Viking saw it in only one single image (with a second over-exposed). Absolutely anything that shows the trailing side will give new information. If several views could be obtained at different Ls the varying terminator positions and relief seen with different lighting would really help enlarge our understanding of Deimos, especially the interaction between the relief and the bright streaks. There would be no value in seeing the leading side. Mars Express has a few lower resolution images of the leading side so far, but MOC should be better.
Phil
Very nice! But the real 3-D shape would allow a better view than the ellipsoid suggests, as that side appears to be flattened more than this triaxial ellipsoid. And the true shape of the limb at right is unknown. That if nothing else would be a new input to the shape model. This image shows nicely where the cut-off of high resolution imaging falls, not far east of the prime meridian. Then we have a strip about 40 degrees wide of low quality imaging based on just two very early Viking images, and then the outer strip based on only one high phase view. With good lighting we would still learn something new about this region.
By a happy coincidence your simulation date of 15 March is my birthday. I'll take this as a birthday card!
Phil
What can Mars Express do on Deimos in terms of coverage of the trailing hemisphere? Also, might Rosetta be able to help with this?
To "Investigate the global chemical heterogeneity on Phobos and Deimos" is a stated goal of the flyby, and I saw on a sequencing document that coverage on approach should occur, so there may be at least low resolution coverage. However, the documents hadn't been updated for the new trajectory, so exactly how it will play out isn't answered.
Bless you, my child. (Has anyone come up with a theoretical explanation for why Deimos and Phobos have such radically different-looking surfaces?)
Bruce said "Bless you, my child" - is that another birthday greeting?
The best explanation for the difference between P and D would appear to be that of Peter Thomas and colleagues at Cornell: that Deimos is basically completely covered with a thick layer of ejecta from a very large impact. No large crater? Yes, there is. The entire south polar region is saddle-shaped, and is interpreted by Thomas et al. as a crater with a diameter about the same as the diameter of Deimos itself. I happen to agree with this. Phobos lacks anything of this magnitude.
This is a good time to demolish the old idea that such a large impact would destroy the target. Modelling of such impacts does not support this old idea. This also applies to Mimas, where in another thread Bob Shaw mentioned the Voyager-era idea that the Herschel impact 'nearly destroyed' Mimas. It was nowhere near doing that. To destroy a body, the shock front from the point of impact has to completely engulf the target body while still having enough energy to dissipate the fragments. Herschel stopped growing when its shock wave energy/unit area dropped below the point at which it could throw out fragments, obviously long before the wave passed through Mimas entirely. Ditto Stickney on Phobos.
mcaplinger - no, the birthday card was jmknapp's picture! I know the image would take much longer to acquire. Oh, and say Hi to Ken from me!
Ted Stryk asked about Mars Express. I've posted a couple of the SR images elsewhere here. The resolution is probably a bit worse than MOC, but with the proper lighting it could add to the stock of images of that side. So far, though, all MEX images that I've seen show mainly the leading side.
Phil
"I've been assuming that the half-phase, trailing-illuminated case is of most interest. Phil, does that sound right?"
Yes, perfect!
Basically, as I've said, anything which adds to our coverage in this area is great. Peter Thomas will have an extra bit of input for his shape model. If in the future an additional image or two should be possible, anything which gave different phases would help too. Sub-solar longitudes on Deimos of about 225 and 315 would help reveal topography in this area.
Phil
Well, Alex, I bewore the Ides of March as instructed... but nothing happened.
Phil
Actually Frankie Howerd is the person I think of in connection with such classical goings-on. My apologies to all the non-brits out there whose upbringing didn't include frequent exposure to the cream of British culture. It is - uh - cream that floats to the top, isn't it?
Phil
"test images to be taken week of March 20"
Are they just going to snap few images of anywhere on Mars or is there some specific target for those test images...
If they asked me I would take image of Opportunity’s way to Victoria...that could help a bit in navigating through those dunes...
Does anybody knows more?
You don't just "snap anywhere" with a multi million $ camera..................
It's going to be March 23! Images will be taken during 2 orbits. The camera will take pictures of the middle latitudes of the southern hemisphere. (From space.com)
They'll be unveiled at HiROC in a special event if you look at the hiroc website.
Doug
I hope they'll get some shots of those canals I keep hearing everyone
talk about. Maybe even some of those ancient Martian cities along the
planet's equator made of solid crystal, or even the giant cannon they
used to launch that Earth invasion back in 1897 - and 1953 - and 1988 -
and 2005.
Interestingly enough, per the latest SPICE prediction kernel MRO won't have a periapsis passage on March 23rd UTC. There will be a periapsis around ~5:00am UTC on the 24th, which would be the 23rd Mountain Time at least.
MRO will be over the night side at periapsis so I guess the HiRISE images will be taken some time before, at higher altitudes? Here's the nadir track showing MRO as a red dot at 04:50am March 24th UTC, just going into the night side:
Altitude at that point is about 1500km. Altitude when MRO is over the Valles Marineris region is about 4000km at 04:30.
Now, the question, as we know that the qt.exploration.edu/mars is a image repository place of MER-x images, does anyone know where will go the future MRO's images. The mro webpage (http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/mro) looks like dead, the last update was of March 10. No recent updates about the MRO's orbit status and no any new news.
The University of Arizona’s super-powerful High Resolution Imaging Experiment (HiRISE) camera is scheduled to relay first test shots of Mars on March 23 to the HiRISE Operations Center at the University of Arizona in Tucson.
Rodolfo
Speaking to JB - he doesnt know the image release policy for CTX and MARCI yet either.
He suggested that the intention is to wait till after the test images, and then make a decision during the 6 month hiatus.
History would suggest that CTX and MARCI probably wont get the same treatment that HiRISE will, and to be fair, the baseline now is 3 or 6 month batches, 6 months after aquisition, which MER, MGS and Odyssey are doing. Wr.t. real time raw JPG's - anything in the MER or Cassini style has to be considered a major bonus ( and at no small cost w.r.t. processing and hosting ) - it's all too easy to get complacent and assume that that's the sort of thing we can come to expect - but realistically, it isnt.
Doug
http://marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov/HiRISE/public.html
Here's some information too.
Nico
First HiRISE Mars Images watch party blog:
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/first_images/
From Loretta:
A live web blog will be updated tonight and Saturday morning as HiRISE receives its first images from Mars! Please send to those who might be interested. The blog begins tonight, Thursday, March 23, about 9 p.m. On Saturday, March 25, it will be updated starting about 8 a.m.
The page will detail what's going on in HiROC, and will have images of the team viewing the first images will be posted, as well as information about HiRISE. The first images of Mars will also be posted here, probably some time Friday, as soon as NASA and JPL release them. HiRISE is scheduled to take four images on Thursday night, and four on Saturday morning.
The page will also be left up for those curious about the events in the future.
If I have understand this right MRO should send us 8 (eight) HiRISE images in the next few days...
That would be those monster 20,000 x 40,000 pixel images or color images up to 4,072 pixels wide?
The first images are in, as reported on the blog (1:31 am MST)!
"Sharp, clear and beautiful"...
From Loretta's blog :
THE FIRST HiRISE IMAGES ARE IN! And they are gorgeous! These images are sharp, clear and beautiful in the "quick-look" or raw form. "Incredible," says Candy Hansen, Deputy Principal Investigator.
The first image is 2.5 meters per pixel. The fourth image will be about 1.5 meters per pixel.
I can't wait to see them !
-- Rakhir
THE FIRST HiRISE IMAGES ARE IN! And they are gorgeous! These images are sharp, clear and beautiful in the "quick-look" or raw form. "Incredible," says Candy Hansen, Deputy Principal Investigator.
"I am VERY happy!" says Alfred McEwen, Principal Investigator and chief scientist of the HiRISE camera. "They are sharp, clear, and beautiful!"
But we won't let you see them until tomorrow
Yeah!!! He didn't say that part earlier...
My printer is ready
Nico
Aack!... My keyboard just shorted out from collected puddles of drooling!
<well.... not really....>
first pic is up! > not 20000x40000 px yet but looking good!
Quote: .....The first image is 20,000 by 10,000 pixels, a small image.....
That fuzzy image of a screen in the control room is clearer than the images that the first mariner probe sent back. How far we have come.
Chris
a grayscale crop of the screenshot -we have come far indeed Chris.
Nico
Look at the size of the scroll bars on there - that image is HUGE
Doug
Hehe. Fifteen minutes after the first chance to see something, it's screenshots. Ten minutes later, it's turned to grayscale. Just wait till we see the real thing!
Bob Shaw
wow yes, hadn't noticed that
Better get another HD once the big data comes our way
Nico
WOAW -regarding the image... and the display
Oh my
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/first_images/images/PICT0093-med.jpg
Look at the size of THOSE scroll bars
Doug
http://pdsimg.jpl.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/Atlas/dbQuery.pl?INSTRUMENT_HOST_NAME=MARS_GLOBAL_SURVEYOR&INSTRUMENT=MOC_NARROW_ANGLE&TARGET_NAME=MARS&MIN_CENTER_LATITUDE=-41&MAX_CENTER_LATITUDE=-40&MIN_CENTER_LONGITUDE=302&MAX_CENTER_LONGITUDE=304&action=1&DB=ops&INSTRUMENT_HOST_TYPE=ORBITER&TARGET_TYPE=TERRESTRIAL&loadForms=done&formsInfo=/export/jbcache/scratch/3810_formsInfo.db&whichform=tab1&CN=FALSE&PRODUCT_TYPE=MARS&PROCESS=PROCESS&DATA_SET_ID=MGS-M-MOC-NA/WA-2-DSDP-L0-V1.0&DATA_SET_ID=MGS-M-MOC-NA/WA-2-SDP-L0-V1.0&INSTRUMENT_NAME=NA
The MOC NA images of the quoted target area.
Doug
Not for me there isnt.
Anyway - there were three MOC NA images within one degree of the target I put in
One was a tiny Geodesy image, the others are these..
http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/m07_m12/images/M07/M0701521.html
http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/m13_m18/images/M13/M1300036.html
Doug
B)-->
Tired of scrolling huge MRO data?
> http://spds.ece.uci.edu/~sjenks/Pages/HIPerWall.html
Nico
Interesting quote from the blog:
"Strange channels with various levels of some type of flows are showing up in some images."
Chris
I don't think we're expecting this stuff to be particular high res are we?
Then again - 400km was one suggested altitude at the time of taking, what are we talking, a nominal 60cm/pixel?
Doug
Depends on your definition of high res I suppose. The blog says:
"The first image is 2.5 meters per pixel. The fourth image will be about 1.5 meters per pixel."
Chris
So MOC non-cproto res so far ( with the centre in pseudo-colour of course )
Doug
Honestly, I am as excited about HiRISE imagery as I was about the rovers landing.
It's just all SUCHHH good stuff
Doug
I agree 100% Doug, good stuff is coming our way. I look forward to stereo in particular.
Nico
I'm here...
Back.
Waiting.
And enjoying...
They need time to Photoshop-out the @l!en c!ty
Pachents running out..... ** Taps Finger On desk**
Chill - these things take time. We've waited since the launch in August for these first images, another day or two isn't going to kill anyone.
Doug
The White House has to verify that the images don't undermine creationism, & have NASA change all Mars references to "Mars theory."
First pics are at JPL now...
Phil
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/multimedia/pia08013.html
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/multimedia/pia08014.html
Once they release the full resolution images, I'll have plenty to do for the next six months.
Here is the location in Google Mars, centered on the subtle crater at center in the downscaled image:
http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=-33.644349&lon=-54.997558&zoom=9&map=infrared
I was poking around in the http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ to see if there were any narrow angle images in the vacinity. As far as I can tell, http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r10_r15/images/R10/R1001370.html comes closest, just catching the SW corner of the large-area MRO image.
I found this by just looking in each of the different phase pages - is there an easier way of looking at all of the narrow angle images on one quadrangle map?
Links to the first image, in various resolutions, all the way to the Full Monty (44.8MB), are now on the http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/first_images/
Chris
So CTX behaved well then?
Doug
Good news!! All right! Got that 44 meg file coming in -jumps up and down on chair like a little kid waiting to have a good look at it
Nico
edit: OM*G it looks awesome
At first glance the images look smooth and almost polished (as do some of the images from the HRSC on Mars Express). By comparison, the Mars Global Surveyor MOC images had a more granular or matte finish. I'd always assumed much of that was real surface texture, but now I'm wondering.
Was the MOC "texture" merely noise and are we seeing the promised improved signal/noise ratio from HiRISE?
Incidentally, does anyone know how the HiRISE camera's various options were set for the current picture?
Defintely worth the download. The image even extends a little further to the east than the press release version.
Note that this is just one of four from tonight. This also happens to be the SMALL image. The fourth image is 10000 pixels wide by 52000 pixels long!!! It is truly a sight to behold. Also, the dynamic range is excellent, the view is crystal clear in very bright slopes and shadows alike.
I may be cynical about Mars, but I can handle it for a day.
I think it's at least in part due to local dust conditions - look at this crop from the first MRO image of an area where the winds don't appear to be depositing as much material in the lee of various surface features.
Bob Shaw
I can see the joins
Doug
Doug:
Joking aside, I swear I saw a join on the first release image, too!
BTW, the HiROC site says 'The camera will take a second set of Mars images Saturday morning, March 25. These are test images and may not be of interest to the public.'
Bob Shaw
Non-Martian geologist alert. Read at your own risk.
Started looking through this first image and there are a few features that stand out. BTW, the central feature in this image is the north-south trending scarp just right of center called Ogygis Rupes.
First up are the promient east to west trending channels: http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~perry/Channel.jpg . This is a close-up (well, actually full-res) view of one of them. Now the channels here are very interesting. On the south side are inactive, transverse dunes (I assume inactive since a few dunes have small impact craters on them). just north of the center line of the channels is a smooth area, and on the north slope is some kind of blocky layer. Now, these north-slope blocky areas is a running theme in this region through the first hirise image. Relatively featureless south slopes, blocky north slopes. Now, combine this with the layers we see in the release full-res sample image from earlier in the day, and you get this sense that this is a layered region with perhaps tilted layers with a generally east-west strike with a dip presumably toward the southwest, thus the blocky stuff comes from one layer, and the more massive, smooth appear layer appears on top. As you go more toward the northwest, the blocky stuff is more exposed until you hit Ogygis Rupes. Complicating this is the topography which runs downhill from east to west. Regardless, an interesting area.
Here's a look at a more broadly exposed area of blocky terrain: http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~perry/Rootless_cone.jpg . Here we see small hills, 50-100 meters in size. The small-scale roughness is much greater than in the previous area. Just above and to the right of center, we see a pit at the top of a hill. Rootless cone maybe? Or a crater where the surrounding rock has been eroded away?
Finally, we have a 4.5 km wide crater near the right edge of the swath: http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~perry/4.5km_crater.jpg . here again we see a depression, a crater this time, with a rough north side and a dust-covered south side. Could this be due to preferential aeolian deposition? Very odd.
Regardless, a very interesting area.
Hmm - dark side perhaps for noise? Or badly smeared for flat fielding?
Doug
Actually, it is from my evil twin who likes Mars.
Why what't wrong with it? other than the fact that it doesn't really say anything substative?
Tried to find the location in the MEX HRSC archives, but it falls neatly in a sliver of uncovered territory between two huge images.
I don't think it's been said enough in this thread,these first photos are spectacular,unbelievable ! What endless knowledge to be gained from photos of this quality.
It would be interesting to see a before and after pic,like the best photo taken from this piece of Mars with one of the other orbiters.
Well - MOC imagery would exceed this resolution - but we've not found any overlapping parts yet. It's bound to be in some Themis VIS images at 18m/pixel though - to this HiRISE imagery is 6x better than that.
This imageyr is utterly superb news not because of the image itself, but because it means the camera works properly, in the right sort of environment, doing what it was designed to do. It means that, aerobraking allowing, we're going to have some really very very good imagery in a few months time
Do we know if they took the blue-green or near-IR with this test run? Perhaps they're saving the release of that for the mars madia event mentioned at the HiRISE website.
Doug
roughly center, near the bottom of the frame;
http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/browse/I04871003?
http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/I09502003?tab=1
So how long until we get a pic of one of the rovers, or of Victoria Crater?
I think we'll see Victoria from the ground first. I don't mind
Nico
In this elaboration of the 4.5 km http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~perry/4.5km_crater.jpg highlighted by Jason, in addition to unsharp and colorization I brightened the shadowed portion and the result is very encouraging, confirming the good S/N ratio...
Yes. That's it for comparison (at this MRO-altitude). woaw. Talk about improvement.
Nico
[quote name=QUOTE REMOVED - totally unneeded
[/quote]
Some of the sand ripples in the attached image are practically one pixel wide. So there couldn't be any blurring, or we wouldn't be able to see features this small. I think the smoothness is due to most of the terrain being smooth and rounded, and due to the improved s/n ratio.
Just thought I'd chime in and add my two cents.
The easy answer is that they're not the same pixel resolution.
Doug
I think it looks smoother because th lighting is different. The shadows are the other way around and the sun is higher in the sky.
Vortex like aeolian work from prevailing wind and local topography combined with similar sub surface layering?
Doug
http://wohba.com/2006/03/test-photos-from-mro.html
http://wohba.com/2006/03/test-photos-from-mro.html
Whoa!!
That zoom chart is most impressive,probably would mean a lot more to me if I knew how the craters in the chart compared in size to say endurance or Victoria.
They're not that similar really.
Ignore the 'outer' circle - every crater has that - and all that's similar between them on the inside is the evidence of a lower layer, with a bias to one side. That's all really.
Doug
I'd buy Doug's and Bob's, et al, explanations: similar formation, similar subsurface, similar aeolian activity. Although one of my first thoughts was "homeplate"...
The imagery _is_ wonderful.
--Bill
I've got to vote for aeolian processes as the prime factor...most of that material is probably the "talcum powder" stuff that will undoubtedly plague the first manned expedition someday...
Also gotta add my at the incredible resolution and quality of these images, even with high relative groundspeed and altitude at this point...I mean, like, wow! If there's still a hot spring or two cooking on Mars, HiRISE looks like the first instrument capable of finding them.
Very, very nice pics. I'm looking forward to the pics of the rovers and other spacecraft on the surface. And lots and lots of other great pics showing wonders we haven't seen yet.
One question....when are we going to see pics in living color? And will they be as high resolution as these grayscale pics? Also will MRO be able to make mosaics of the globe like MOC has done? (Today's APOD pic)
It's gonna be a long 6 month wait, fortunately the rovers are still working. I remember during one of the first press conferences, the lady (on the MER project) said that the rovers wouldn't be operational when MRO arrived at Mars. She must be eating some very delicious crow!
When are we going to see the other pics?... taken thursday and saturday? (unless the saturday are indeed featureless nighttime calibration shots or the like)
And.... hold on to your airplane-bags...
Hoaxland, at enterprisemission.com is already identifying abundant artyfakts in those craters and other parts of the scene.
The central 1/5th of full res HiRISE images can be taken in pseudo-colour ( nIR, Red and B-G ) - but they've not processed that yet.
As I understand it - they took more than just the one image as well, I guess they'll be released at that Mars Mania event next month.
Doug
It would only be surprising if that joker didn't pounce on new images as evidence of a pet theory. The swirly craters were obvious targets.
Just looked at the site--unless I missed it, they haven't glommed onto that particular image yet, but are anxiously waiting the higher resolution images in general from MRO, as I suppose everyone is.
While the tall tales of Hoagland and the Art Bell crowd are uniformly insipid, I wonder if their attention to Mars isn't in the end a net positive for NASA and solar system exploration. So many people don't really care at all, and there's no such thing as bad publicity. As a lightning rod, Hoagland is a handy target for many scientific types to tee off against and spread the word about Mars.
There may be no such thing as bad publicity, but there sure as hell is such a thing as bad science!
Not only do these clowns knowingly pollute the minds of the innocent with regard to real scientific enquiry, but they also serve as a brake on genuine technological progress - after all, what's the point in wasting all that money on Dawn's ion drive when 'everybody knows' that there's a Skunk Works Z*ro-P*int En*rgy drive spacecraft already flying?
I'd bring back the stakes, the bonfires, and the sharp pointed confession extraction equipment, just for that crew!
Bob Shaw
Next images to be released April 6, including a press release:
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/first_images
Just to note also, my previous overlay image of the two "swirly" craters, which has been deleted, was not meant to imply that I thought there was anything artificial about them, in Hoagland-style. I had already stated that in the text in my posts about them, to make that clear. I was simply interested in what geological processes might produce similar-looking patterns in the two separate craters, that's all. The overlay was meant only to highlight some of the finer similar features, which are there and seen when the photos are closely examined, but they might not "jump out" at everyone. I did explain this to Doug already also.
Taking into account the quality of these test images, what do you think the likelyhood is of MRO and HiRise achieving the final image resolution/quality often quoted on the MRO webpages etc?
Personally - I think it's quite good, that test image was fairly sharp - good detail - good SNR - I certainly think MC's caution is valid however, and I don't think we'll be getting a genuine 25cm/pixel at any point - but I certainly think 50cm/pixel x-track and down track will be doable. After a few months with the science orbit, they'll probably find the combination of binning etc that returns the most science per bit, and my personal guess is that it will be 2 x 2 binning for the outer 8 x red channels, with no binning for the central 2 nIR, R and BG channels
Doug
Does anyone have details about MRO's science orbit, i.e., inclination, eccentricity,
and time of equatorial crossing? As far as I recall, MGS and Odyssey cross Mars'
equator at 3 p.m., while MRO is to cross at 4 p.m. This lower sun angle should help
MRO pick out detail, as I have always been frustrated by the flat appearance of most
MOC and Odyssey images. I was spoiled by the stunning detail visible in Lunar Orbiter
images taken at low Sun angles (as close to the terminator as LO's film speed would
allow).
I imagine that MRO, MGS and Odyssey needed higher illumination for other instruments
such as CRISM and Mars Color Imager. However, if MRO is to be a true Recon mission for
future landing missions, manned and unmanned, then wouldn't it be preferable to
place it in an orbit as close to the terminator as possible? There is nothing like long shadows
to pick out small scale topography such as samll craters, rockes, crevasses and dunes.
If MRO is to be anchored in one orbit for its mission duration, then I would vote for
some future mission to obtain true Lunar Orbiter type landing site recon images.
Another Phil
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA08030
This is exciting to see - the first data from MCS (Mars Climate Sounder). It is a new, modernized version of an older instrument from the same team, the Pressure Modulated Infrared Radiometer, which flew on Mars Observer and Mars Climate Orbiter! It must be a great moment for them!
In reference to MRO's Sun-synchronous orbit, does anyone know at
what altitude MRO's orbit becomes "anchored" with reference to the Sun.
My orbital mechanics is bit shaky, but I know that the ellipsoidal shape
of Mars is utilized, along with MRO's inclination, to "drag" the plane of
MRO's orbit by about 1/2 degree per day so that it always crosses the
equator at the same time (apparently 3 p.m. local on Mars).
I know that at a sufficiently high altitude, MRO's orbit will be inertial, i.e.,
Mars will rotate below MRO without "dragging" the plane of MRO's orbit.
Does anyone know if there is enough fuel onboard MRO to raise its orbital
altitude, after its prime mission is complete, so that its orbit once again
becomes inertial? This would allow MRO to later lower its orbit again,
but this time in a Sun-synchronous orbit that crosses Mars' equator at
about 5 p.m. This would allow low-Sun photography of future landing sites
looking for craters, slopes, etc.
Another Phil
Another Phil:
And also, perhaps, a longer role as a data relay orbiter.
Bob Shaw
The altitude depends on the inclination. THere is a range of altitudes and corresponding inclinations that result in a sunsynchronous orbit. I don't have the formula's handy right now, but the basic principle is right: J2 effect causes a preseccion of the orbit that has the same rotational velocity as the motion of Mars around the Sun.
Just a reminder:
More multiple images from MRO tomorrow, April 6. Press release at 10:00 am MST.
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/first_images
"Look for another release of new HiRISE images on April 6, 2006. A press release is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Thursday. Please come back to this site for more information. Multiple images of Mars taken by HiRISE in March will be released! These newly released images will also be available for viewing or download on NASA's web sites."
10:00 a.m., April 8, 2006 (Thursday): The new batch of HiRISE images will be released later today. We're sorry for the delay. The exact time will be posted soon. Your busy HiRISE Webmaster is finalizing the web page now! Multiple images of Mars taken by HiRISE in March will be released! These newly released images will also be available for viewing or download on NASA's web sites.
Thursday April 8 2006?? They must be on summer vacation lol....
(I remember those glorious summers as a kid when I didn't know which day was which....)
You said that the team wasn't quite sure which images would be released....do you mean there will be some images taken last month that will be held back and released later?
Regardless, I'm waiting with anticipation for the ones that do come out.
Understood, thanks.
The site's timing out right now, so I'm continuing to eagerly wait. I especially look forward to the color image.
....damn, I guess we won't be seeing anything today afterall.
Hehe, our server went down this afternoon. It was down when I left work early (if I can't get to my files, I can't work, therefore I went home). And it looks like it is still down. Sorry about the delay everyone!
Anyone got a spare F5 key? Mine's all worn out.
Actually - I've been using this - http://www.btinternet.com/%7Emarkwell/webmon/ to track the HiRISE website, Steve's blog, etc etc - very usefull.
Doug
No, one of the disks malfunctioned on our main server. Not sure when it will be back up again since they will need to rebuild the disk. I'll let you know when the server is back up if I am still on when it happens, but I wouldn't expect any images today. But you never know.
In terms of releases, remember that some of the images will take more processing than others to look good. Some are taken too close to twilight. But, rest assured, blown away ye shall be.
Web site is back up, but no pix yet.
Hopefully tomorrow...
"News Flash: The HiRISE images release scheduled for April 6 has been postponed due to some server hardware problems. Hopefully they will be released on Friday, April 7. As soon as a date and time are confirmed, it will be posted here."
New HiRISE images are available at http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mro/!
I'm guessing the scarey colour is using nIR as red, red as green and blue-green as blue.
If you use a channels mixer in, say, photoshop with these settings
Great stuff!
Here's where the two overlap. I've not got the time to do a nice sharp line-them-up overlay, but it gives you an idea of the extent of the overlap.
Doug
Well - we know they're good and sharp, and that's all that really matters. I'm sure the MARCI image is a wallpaper waiting to happen
Doug
So how many pictures were they planning on releasing yesterday?
One presumes the colour part of the first large image, and the new one ( which I show a MOC overlay on above) just in greyscale. I'm not sure how many different images they actually took - and of those, which are 'valid' for looking at instead of just health checking, and of the 'valid' images, I'm not sure what binning, or colour options were used - but so far from what we've seen they took
One image that's 20k x 10k (unbinned) with central colour
Another images thats 10k x 26k 2x2 binned without colour.
Pity that the Marci image isn't too cool - I've always thought the MOC WA images during the break in aerobraking were some of the most spectacular images of Mars.
(while we're at it - just as a quite thought - how are global WA monitoring observations and the WA observations for context or other purposes combined in terms of scheduling etc - never quite understood that )
Doug
Another update from the HiRISE weblog:
"News Flash: Look for a release of three new HiRISE images about 10:15 a.m. at this site! Then more will be released at 1 p.m. Please check back!"
Heres another one:
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA08049
This image shows part of a low mountain belt that rings the Argyre impact basin in Mars' southern hemisphere. The mountains or hills seen here are located in the northwestern part of the Charitum Montes.
Now on the HiRISE weblog, including the first of five colour 3-D perspective views (more this afternoon)!
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/first_images/first_three/index.shtml
Get creative with the current image urls, and bingo - they're all there
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/first_images/first_three/images/JPG/
Doug
Lovely! Thanks Doug
Nico
My Crystal Ball predicts that, suddenly, there will be lots of Mars Express images released...
Bob Shaw
http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/first_images/first_three/images/JPG/Release_AEB_000001_0150_Red_Brow1.jpg (and that's the small 712k jpg version!)
The full size images are too big for me to download ... if anyone did get the full size images, would they consider posting some 100% crops of a few of the more interesting features in them?
I posted a few tiny postage stamps at full resolution here:
http://www.planetary.org/news/2006/0407_Color_Images_and_Sharp_Details_from.html
So many different things to look at in one image!
--Emily
Emily:
Yup! And the exhumed craters, the valleys full of rocks, the strange linear features where material has fallen into craters...
...and, when the statistical analysis is done, perhaps an answer to the mini-craters problem!
Bob Shaw
Thanks
OK....I managed to get one of the half size images. The quality is stunning.. and they sharpen up nicely too. Here's my crop
One more.........
Look at all the dunes... Imagine what Merdiani will look like from the final mapping orbit
Notice how there are no dunes near the small crater inside that large crater. The ejecta must have disrupted them. I wonder how old those dunes are.
Are there some images from other recent Mars orbiters we can compare
them to the ones shown by MRO?
And is there some kind of terrestrial scale we could use on some of
the MRO images to get a better idea just how big (or small) things
are being revealed?
Thank you.
wow my thoughts exactly 'jk4-1 I was begining to think I was the only one...... I guess right now people are just interested in seeing the pics rather then comparing them if they can. I've been wondering how all these craters compare in size to Victoria and endurance. Are some of the craters we are seeing so well now ever been seen before ? What size would the rovers be,could they be clearly seen. I'm looking for a basis of camparison and not finding any.
Yep - that's why I was asking to see other images from other orbiters
to know just how more detailed the MRO images are. Or do I need to
wait for the really detailed ones?
And do you know if the MRO team plans to image not just the old and
new USA landers and rovers, both intact and crashed, but also the
Beagle 2 and the three Soviet Mars landers, also both intact and crashed?
Mars 2 (high speed impact),
Mars 3 (landed, maybe hard), and
Mars 6 (low speed impact -- went silent at MER-like retrofire or impact)
are not located well enough to find except by accident. Landing coordinates are given to 1 degree or certainly no better than 0.1 degree accuracy, and the coordinate system used is undoubtably not well tied to the current one.
I'd love to find'm, but the area to be imaged at full HIRES resolution and the uncertainty of uniquely identifying them till we have 0.1 meter resolution rather than HIRES resolution makes it probably not worth the effort.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Phil.
The MRO test images were 'sold' as being significantly lower resolution than the expected final quality from the mapping orbit. The images which came down are of most interest as synoptic snapshots of a large area at good, but not highest, resolution, and as such are valuable in their own right (for once, we're not seeing small swathes but big areas at the same time, lit the same way, from the same camera and at resolutions which are still 'good'). They are not so detailed as the best MGS images - yet. And the quantity of data is immense!
Bob Shaw
edstrick: "Correct me if I'm wrong, Phil."
No need. You're dead right.
I assume all known sites will be imaged to help provide geological context and (for Viking 2) still try to nail down the location. Right now we have three candidate objects within about 1 km of each other. HiRISE might resolve the issue.
Phil
The most interesting thing I've found on those early photos was pointed out by Emily at http://planetary.org/news/2006/0407_Color_Images_and_Sharp_Details_from.html , next-to-last photo -- a very, very small multiply branching channel, no more than a few hundred meters long and just a few meters wide, that absolutely MUST have been carved by flowing surface water from the rim of Argyre Crater. Now, what the hell does that signify? Something important, surely? Snowmelt off the slope of Argyre during Mars' most recent obliquity climate cycle a few tens of thousands of years ago, maybe?
Hope this isn't too past it's "freshness date" but Phil Plait has a good little bit comparing the resolution to a Google Earth image:
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2006/03/26/first-image-from-mars-orbiter-2/
ljk4-1 asks about Viking 2.
Yes, I have a candidate point, Mike Malin has a candidate point, and Tim Parker (JPL) has a third candidate point. Each one is a tiny lump. Either two of them are boulders and one is Viking 2, or all three are boulders! We will need MRO to distinguish these possibilities.
I have tried using the best cPROTO MOC image to map the pattern of boulders around the candidate lander. This is at the limit of resolution. Unfortunately, Malin's lander position looks like it matches boulders better than the other two... but on the other hand, I can make Tim's point and mine match distant topography, but I can't make Malin's point match the distant topography. So it's not conclusive.
Phil
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