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Posted by: vikingmars Aug 25 2007, 09:43 PM

Thanks to the MRO the Viking Lander 1 site has been viewed twice already at nerly the same Mars local time :
- PSP_001521_2025_RED.jp2 taken on 11 November 2006 (w/30.3 cm/pixel resolution) at 3:20 PM ;
- PSP_001719_2025_RED.JP2 taken on 12 december 2006 (w/28.8 cm/pixel resolution) at 3:27 PM.

So I decided to pixel overlap the 2 pictures retrieved from the LPL site at their maximum resolution (as "full JPEG 2000" images), knowing that each individual pixel from those 2 images would not cover exactly the same area on Mars.
The goal was :
1. to gain some resolution over individual pictures ;
2. to assess the reality of some features as seen from orbit ;
3. to determine is some individual Lander components could be seen ;
4. to see an "average" site free from bad pixel and false features.

After a painstaking process, here are the results on the 4 goals :
1. resolution gained : ==> not obvious on overlap image ;
2. reality of some features : ==> real features are seen on overlap image ;
3. Lander components : ==> some individual components discriminated ;
4. "average" site free from bad pixel and false features ==> goal attained.

About the lander itself : the shadow seen for its high-gain antenna mast and for its antenna itself is narrow. This implies that the disk-shaped antenna was not facing the sun when the images were taken, meaning that the high-gain antenna is pointing either towards the north or towards the south.

The same overlap processings were also applied to the area where the backshell touched down the surface with its parachute ==> An overlap image is seen also.

About the landing site itself around Lander 1 with its features, please refer to the explanations given it the previous post :
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=3694&view=findpost&p=79379

Enjoy !

Posted by: vikingmars Aug 25 2007, 09:45 PM

(following images)

Posted by: climber Aug 25 2007, 10:20 PM

Thanks to share this high quality work with us Olivier.

I have 2 questions :
1- when you say "the high-gain antenna is pointing either towards the north or towards the south", this means that we actualy don't know where V1 was pointing the last time we heard from it ?
2- do you think that with a differents time passes of MRO we could see other details... like arm shadow ? (I'm not sure the timing can change a lot, but may be seasonal changes could do the trick)
As they're looking for targets suggestions, this could be one.

I can see that you still love your bird...

Posted by: Decepticon Aug 25 2007, 10:23 PM

I hope we can add to this in the future again!

Posted by: vikingmars Aug 25 2007, 10:55 PM

Hello Climber ! Thanks :
==> Yes : I have always considered VL1 as a "pet" having taking care of all its images processings and data archival until 1984 during my stays at JPL ;
==> Yes, we don't know where the antenna was pointing after the last command was sent from Earth on November 19, 1982, when a command sequence intended to make changes to the battery - charging sequence was uplinked to VL1. And shortly after, it was identifed that the new battery-charging sequence had been written into its memory locations occupied by the high-gain antenna pointing parameters : thus, the VL1 antenna was no longer pointing to Earth...
==> The more images we have, the more details we can retrieve, especially if they decide to lower MRO's orbit at the end of its mission !

Posted by: SpaceListener Aug 26 2007, 04:34 AM

Not sure about the shape of Viking spacecraft. I tought it had three legs and hence it is triangle. The picture shows it is of oval shape.

Posted by: Gsnorgathon Aug 26 2007, 06:32 AM

The Viking lander's three legs form a nice triangle, but the two fuel tanks sticking out from two sides give it a more oblong appearance from above. I wasn't able to find any good views in a semi-quick search, but scroll to the bottom of this http://www.mastermodels.co.uk/gallery.htm page and click the thumbnail, or try http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/probes/vpk57.html.

Posted by: vikingmars Aug 26 2007, 08:18 AM

Here is a simulation done with my VL1 model to help you understand the shadows seen on the overlap image.
VL1 model link on the Umsf :
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=1638&view=findpost&p=25600
Enjoy !

Posted by: climber Aug 26 2007, 08:56 AM

Hello Olivier! Thanks for the answer.
I guess you'll also enjoy this status report from JPL "Mars Orbiter's camera concern resolved" : http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-093a
As you point out, this could lead to get pictures from a lower orbit.

Posted by: nprev Aug 26 2007, 02:10 PM

VM, that is sweet... ...hadn't seen your model before, incredible! You even have the sampling arm trenches, and I'm sure that the rocks are all correct as well; quite an achievement.

Posted by: vikingmars Aug 26 2007, 03:07 PM

Dear Nprev, Thanks !
As you see, this model serves now for the purpose for which it was built in 1982 : assessing the possibility or not to see VL1 from Mars orbit by simulating its shadows at specific Mars local time hours
Now, we have to wait for the next MRO images to come : maybe I'll be able to discern the discarded soil sampler shroud close to footpad #3... Its shadow is close to be seen...

Posted by: SpaceListener Aug 28 2007, 02:04 AM

Thanks Oliver.
Polar Pictures on the Viking 1 dated on the year 76! Congratulations.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Aug 29 2007, 12:33 AM

Olivier, did you make a Viking 2 site model? Viking 1 is excellent.

Phil

Posted by: vikingmars Aug 29 2007, 07:47 AM

Dear Phil,
The Lander model itself was to be used also as VL2 on a specific Utopia model. I started modelling the Vl2 site which was to be with winter frost for scenic purposes and for easier differentiation should it was to be shown on exhibits... After the very end of the mission in 1983 when all hopes of recovering VL1 were lost, this Utopia work was never completed. When I worked with Jim French at JPL at the very start of the MGCO project (renamed later as Mars Observer), we did numerous shadows simulations with the Lander model and found that MGCO's hi-res camera (MOC with 1.5 m/pixel resolution) could probably not discern VL1 or VL2 at local hours between 10:00 am to 14:00 pm, because the Lander protruding parts and its small shadows then PLUS the dust covering part of it made the Lander looking very much from above like another pile of rocks... What we understood was that we needed either an higher-resolution camera (50 cm/pixel minimum resolution was required) or MOC images taken with a rising or setting sun which casts long shadows on the Landers...

Posted by: vikingmars Apr 2 2008, 07:51 PM

...So I just merged the final RED hi-res panchromatic image (see hereabove) with the color product found on MRO's website !
Now you see the VL1 site in full color at its maximum resolution...
Enjoy !

Posted by: JRehling Apr 2 2008, 08:05 PM

This is a great image! Historic, even. I think the Viking 1 site is right up there with Apollo 11 as a place where we pushed forward as a race. Good work!

Posted by: vikingmars Apr 3 2008, 06:57 PM

Thanks a lot JRehling for your kind comments !
...And here is the "basic" original color HiRise image from which the final color overlap (see hereabove) was produced (it has less resolution/pixel) and after final color calibration of course (deleting also the blue halo around VL1)...
Enjoy also !

Posted by: ustrax Apr 4 2008, 01:17 PM

This is truly a keeper Olivier!
Fantastic work on showing how VL1 still looks great after all this years.

Posted by: ugordan Apr 4 2008, 01:32 PM

Are you sure about this? It looks to me like the paint job at some parts of the s/c is starting to decay from all the sandblasting, definitely wouldn't strike me as "mint condition"!

Posted by: JRehling Apr 4 2008, 06:34 PM

Well, the rust-proofing was an extra million dollars, and it sounded like the salesman was just trying to add extra features.

Posted by: dilo Apr 4 2008, 07:42 PM

Great!
I made this modified version in order to improve contrast/pixelization/color... (I do not know how much realistic is, however ).

Posted by: ustrax Apr 4 2008, 08:58 PM

Looks shiny to me...
So...when we will see Phoenix will we be facing an image with similar characteristiques?
Doug, one of yours simulations would be really appreciated!

Posted by: Sunspot Apr 4 2008, 09:38 PM

I think MRO will have trouble picking out Phoenix, after the technical problems with the camera, image quality has degraded quite significantly.

Posted by: djellison Apr 4 2008, 10:32 PM

Phoenix will be EASY to spot - very very easy indeed. I did a simulation just over a year ago ( Bottom of http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000840/ ) - but it appears, from above, about three times the size of MER. Basically, imagine two MER's with a brighter disk parked between them.

And to be honest, claiming that HiRISE has degraded significantly is just not true. The most recent image of Spirit ( from January ) is as good (and infact, imho, better than) as the very first ( from Nov 06 )

Posted by: ustrax Apr 4 2008, 11:52 PM

THANK you Doug!
I'm really excited about it...this is, believe or not..., my first martian landing...
I've only followed MER after thwey reached Mars...

Posted by: nprev Apr 5 2008, 02:21 AM

...you're in for a treat, Rui. I'm so old I remember VL1! (Drags out pipe, strokes grey beard, begins nostalgic story for the youngsters, who fidget...)

Back in the day, only PBS (US government-sponsored domestic public television) offered coverage of the landing, at least up in Montana. Fortunately, we got our local channel. I was still fairly young (13), and didn't understand all that was happening during EDL, but the cheer in the control room when they learned that VL1 was down successfully was a real thrill and all the confirmation needed.

Of course, the big payoff was the first picture from the surface of Mars, which assembled itself, slowly, painfully, from right to left...there's some soil...there's the footpad!!!...oh my God, there's a bunch of little rocks (which were really not expected)!!! Absolutely engrossing; almost forgot to breathe watching that first image come down, even as Carl Sagan provided excited background commentary. (Side note: Does anyone know if tapes of the EDL footage are available anywhere? I'd love to watch it all over again.)

In short...Mars landings are a truly remarkable experience. Can't think of any other similar feeling, really.

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Apr 5 2008, 02:54 AM

Yeah I'll never forget Mars Polar Lander (as much as I'd like to.) "This isn't unexpected, there will be a better opportunity for communication in 20 minutes, then the data should come streaming in. Nothing to worry about yet...."

Posted by: Sunspot Apr 5 2008, 06:03 AM

But technical problems with some channels in the camera are well known, which has let a dramatic increase in noise in the images and decrease in image quality.

See these:

November 2006: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001513_1655
January 2008: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_006735_1650

Posted by: Stu Apr 5 2008, 07:26 AM

Oh Rui, Rui, you poor thing... I had no idea, I'm sorry....

Boy are you in for a treat. Well, when I say "treat" I mean, of course, several hours of gut-knotting tension and worry, as you sit at your computer, staring into the monitor, your increasingly-tired eyes focussed on that little media player screen, helplessly watching people thousands of miles away helplessly following events millions of miles away. You'll watch every face behind every console for signs of success or failure; you'll hiss "Shut up!" at any commenator trying to describe what's happening because they'll be talking over "the good stuff"; you'll feel like an idiot whispering "Go on... go on... " as the seconds tick down to landing itself, and then feel absolutely lost and useless as the time delay leads to that awful wait before confirmation of a safe landing is received. And you'll shamelessly shout "YES!" - and might even do a silly little dance... not that I did (cough) - when the first picture comes in and you realise that we're Back On Mars... And when there's nothing "new" to see, when you finally leave your computer and step outside into the sunshine you'll let out a long "Thank **** for that...!" sigh, but you'll also have a ridiculous grin on your face, wondering what fascinating and amazing sights the next day will bring... and the day after that...

Some tips: You'll not want to miss a minute of it, not want to leave your chair for longer than you absolutely have to, so make sure you have snacks and hot drinks ready and around you. Be wary of logging off NASA TV because you might not be able to get back on again, there'll be huge demand at the time, and you don't want to be locked out as the big moment approaches. You're going to get tired, and there'll be stretches of time when nothing happens - or is appearing to happen - so have something else to do if you need it, just so you don't lose concentration, but do NOTHING that could jeapordise your link to NASA TV!

But most of all, try to be patient, and take nothing for granted. Landing on Mars is hard, and dangerous, and it's easy to forget the losses of Polar Lander and Beagle when we're being spoiled by daily images from Oppy and Spirit. I don't envy the Phoenix team sitting there at their consoles, going through all this for real. Mars is a planetary Shrike, it's killed more spacecraft than it has let live, and all we can do is hope that Phoenix is allowed to land safely.

Hmmm, here's a thought... how many people here will be watching the landing "Live"? Where will you be watching from? Sneaking a peek at work? Watching from home? I'm sure there'll be a lively real-time discussion here on UMSF as Phoenix descends.

Tick tick tick...

Posted by: peter59 Apr 5 2008, 08:16 AM

I don't agree with your opinion.
Fragment mentioned above by you image PSP_006735_1650

Spirit at Home Plate still look wonderful.

Posted by: djellison Apr 5 2008, 08:26 AM

Both of those are used in the animation I did of EVERY HiRISE image taken of Spirit. It's in it's own thread in the Spirit forum. Spirit is as visible as ever, and I would say the tracks are more visible than ever, Home Plate as clear as ever. I'm well aware of the reports of trouble with HiRISE, but they have been mainly solved as I understand it. Some images are, indeed, worse than others - but the most recent one is damn good.

Image quality now is NOT significantly ( or ever, imho, noticeably ) worse than the start of the science orbit. Suggesting that it wont be able to see Phoenix (a larger vehicle than MER) when it can see Spirit better than ever is just totally wrong.

Doug

Posted by: edstrick Apr 5 2008, 09:54 AM

"...I'm really excited about it...this is, believe or not..., my first martian landing... ..."

IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.. .make sure you can watch coverage on NASA TV. Preferably on real TV and not in a dinky browser window.
Otherwise, all you'll get ia a minute of realtime coverage and the rest of it will be talking-celebrity-heads and reporters who mostly know nothing.

Posted by: Stu Apr 5 2008, 09:59 AM

I have to say that even though I was watching the MER landings on a "dinky browser window" (and on dialup, with the picture shattering into a Matrix-like haze of pixels every few moments and the dreaded word "Rebuffering" appearing every couple of minutes!!!!) I was glad I watched it online and not on a real TV cos it meant I was able to swap thoughts and fears with people here on UMSF, and email other friends through it all too. It made it a much more moving and personal experience. But NASA TV is definitely the way to go.

Posted by: imipak Apr 5 2008, 11:22 AM

Turned this up, which has a few short snippets from JPL control room:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xh4wHijeJyg

...as well as Gentry Lee audibly choking up as he describes watching the first pictures coming down. The MER EDL footage does that to me, too

(Searching for 'viking mars' finds quite a few other bits and pieces of footage including clean room testing, lander/orbiter assembly and so on.)

Posted by: imipak Apr 5 2008, 11:38 AM

I'll be watching NASA TV from home, very very nervously, and trying not to give in to urges to cross my fingers. I suspect umsf.com will be getting a hammering from me that night, as well... I hope there's enough in the bandwidth kitty to cope



50 days, 12h remaining...

Posted by: nprev Apr 5 2008, 02:14 PM

Monday, 26 May is a US national holiday (Memorial Day), so we Yanks are all set. (I'm sure that I'll need that day to recover from Sunday's landing!!!)

Thanks for that clip, Imipak! Man, time sure does affect memory; I could have sworn that the first image came down in a right-to-left sweep, but it was the other way around. The difference in brightness in the first lines on the left vs. the rest of the pic were thought to be caused by dust disturbed by the landing exhaust settling down again.

Posted by: ustrax Apr 5 2008, 03:40 PM

Hey...I'll just have to count with the help from you guys on dealing with all the stress I know will be passing through...
ustrax's a martian virgin...that's the reality...

Got some lines from Ray Arvidson...:
"the team has confirmed the mission’s final landing site on the last week. So…what scenario will we be facing? Quoting Arvidson, Phoenix will find a location dominated by smooth, relatively rock free plains with numerous periglacial polygons where the team expects water ice to be only a few centimeters beneath a cover of loose regolith."

I'll try to dig some more on this on Monday...

EDITED: Oh...and we have a confirmation...

"Peter Smith, Phoenix Principal Investigator, has confirmed his presence at spacEurope on April 14 (only 9 days from now…) for a live Q’n’A with the readers of this blog, so, get yourself prepared, think about the questions you may have about the mission and submit these when the day arrives, I assure you our PI will not disappoint you."

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Apr 5 2008, 04:14 PM

Now that I think of it, the very first time I tried to watch an internet video stream it was the Pathfinder landing. The window was like 150x150 pixels, and even at that with my slower connection back then, it was jerky and almost useless but the sound was constant. I do recall thinking however how cool this concept could be once the bugs were ironed out.

Posted by: dvandorn Apr 5 2008, 04:51 PM

I don't ever resist the urge to cross my fingers. I cross my fingers and my toes, and if I can think of anything else to cross, I cross them, too...

I'll be watching NASA TV on my home cable system, as well. I am always grateful that I live in a civilized city where I get NASA TV on my cable system.


My schedule is entirely up in the air at this point. I work in a call center for that selfsame cable company that provides me with my NASA TV. (I troubleshoot problems with internet connections and digital phone systems.) We're open every day of the year, and we have bids for working on holidays. I *might* get the holiday off, but more likely I'll have to work the holiday. If I do have to work, I'll get paid double time and a half for working it, though.

Problem is, I don't right yet know what my basic schedule is going to be by the end of May. The call center regularly has what they call mini-bids for shifts, when they want to re-tool assets to match demand patterns. But they've had enough changes in the demand patterns that they need to run a once-every-few-years full shift bid, in which every single person has to bid for a new shift. Since I'm about 65th in seniority out of about 120 people in my job, I obviously don't get my first choice... and the new shifts will be announced this coming Monday, to take effect May 4th.

So I truly have no clue what shift I will be working on May 25th, or whether I will even have Sundays off. But, in addition to having NASA TV on my cable system, I also have a digital video recorder cable box... *grin*...

-the other Doug

Posted by: edstrick Apr 6 2008, 05:23 AM

"Does anyone know if tapes of the EDL footage are available anywhere? I'd love to watch it all over again.)"

I have no idea, I wish/hope it exists.

I have stereo reel-to-reel audio audio tape of dual-network TV coverage of the Viking 1 landing.

Unlike the continuous NASA-TV-like NASA mission commentary that I recorded during the Surveyor 1 moon landing in 1966, a decade later, the Viking landing coverage is totally dominated by "talking heads" and celebrity commentary with the exception of a bare minute of NASA narration right around landing and for a few seconds or so after. Granted, the talking heads were people like Ray Bradbury and Carl Sagan, as I vaguely recall... But Iwanted the real thing and got only a snippet of it.

I recorded dual network coverage, eg CBS and NBC, from 2 TV's onto stereo tape so I have synched sound, and the one snipped of coverage when both networks carried it, comes in the "center channel" while network blather is only out of right or left speakers. (This is what I remember, I haven't played the tape in decades)

I now have a quality reel-to-reel recorder and will soon be able to get some of this stuff digitized and transferred to CD-R discs and mp3 files.

Posted by: vikingmars Apr 6 2008, 08:28 PM

Nice improvements, especially for pixellization !
Here is my final HiRise color processed image before I merged it with the hi-res panchromatic one...
Enjoy also !