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Iapetus - Black on white or white on black?
Ice and Gunk
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SFJCody
post Sep 14 2007, 07:40 AM
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Seems to be a lot of dispute on this subject... I think it's ice from the interior, but what does everyone else think?

Edit:

This world seems very complex so the question could perhaps be phrased as 'which of these options is most responsible for the Iapetan dichotomy?'
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dvandorn
post Sep 24 2007, 04:59 PM
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After seeing some of the contrast-enhanced images from the trailing hemisphere, I have to say that my view has changed slightly. I still firmly believe that the dark surface on the leading edge is a mantling on top of a brighter ice substrate, but there is good evidence now that where this dark material has mantled the surface along the edges of the leading hemisphere, there has been deposition of bright ices on top of it. In places.

What is so odd to me is that neither hemisphere shows much in the way of cratering that exhumes a different-albedo substrate. There are occasional bright-rimmed craters on the leading hemisphere, but almost no dark-halo craters on the trailing one. And the bright-rimmed craters are just that -- bright-rimmed. There is little to no evidence of bright ejecta around them.

I'm having a hard time believing that the impact rate is so small that there have simply been few to no impacts of any size since the materials we see were emplaced on Iapetus' surface. But at the same time, I have a similarly hard time believing that the emplacement of these materials is anything but ancient -- particularly since some of the flow patterns hint at *aeolian* deposition/deflation, which is awfully difficult to explain on a currently airless body.

So we are left with a paradox.

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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JRehling
post Sep 24 2007, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 24 2007, 09:59 AM) *
I'm having a hard time believing that the impact rate is so small that there have simply been few to no impacts of any size since the materials we see were emplaced on Iapetus' surface. But at the same time, I have a similarly hard time believing that the emplacement of these materials is anything but ancient -- particularly since some of the flow patterns hint at *aeolian* deposition/deflation, which is awfully difficult to explain on a currently airless body.

So we are left with a paradox.

-the other Doug


Again, I point to the fact that the "white" stuff isn't white. It's pretty bright, but it has an albedo of about 0.6, far from pure ice. What's happening is that when an impact surfaces some of the bright stuff from below, the thermal segregation model immediately goes to work on the excavated material, and if the situation was such that the native material turned dark in the first place, then the virgin material is going to end up the same way. Maybe it takes years, maybe centuries, but whatever the timescale, it's a blink in geological time. The only bright ray systems we see are very recent ones.

Incidentally, much the same thing is true of ray systems (usually bright on dark) on Mercury and the Moon. Those aren't the only impacts on those worlds -- they're the newer ones. For example, Tycho is estimated to be 108 MYA, Copernicus 800 MYA, and Aristarchus 450 MYA. Those all have salient ray systems. The more typical impact on the Moon, 5 to 10 times those ages, doesn't.

The dynamics of the thermal creep and the hecameter-scale shapes of the boundaries is bound to be an open and interesting question for modelers to address. There are myriad comparable issues pertaining to how winter ice and snow melts on Earth, and I doubt all of them have attracted research interest. (Not sure, even, what FIELD such research would be classified as. Geology? Meteorology? Landscaping? Poetry?)
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David
post Sep 24 2007, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 24 2007, 08:03 PM) *
The dynamics of the thermal creep and the hecameter-scale shapes of the boundaries is bound to be an open and interesting question for modelers to address. There are myriad comparable issues pertaining to how winter ice and snow melts on Earth, and I doubt all of them have attracted research interest. (Not sure, even, what FIELD such research would be classified as. Geology? Meteorology? Landscaping? Poetry?)


Climatology, I imagine -- we have studies of glaciation over time, and more recently studies of glacier recession, and of other results of large-scale ice-melt, like the diminution of ice shelves in the Antarctic. However, studies of how this works when there's no liquid phase for the ice to transition through are doubtless much harder to come by -- the most obvious source of information on this subject would be the study of the Martian polar regions.
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Posts in this topic
- SFJCody   Iapetus - Black on white or white on black?   Sep 14 2007, 07:40 AM
- - ngunn   I think the responses you offer are inadequate. Gl...   Sep 14 2007, 08:03 AM
- - ugordan   Where's the option "Black on White - blac...   Sep 14 2007, 08:04 AM
- - akuo   Is this a Michael Jackson song? Oh Iapetus, I wou...   Sep 14 2007, 08:15 AM
- - volcanopele   I would prefer a both option: white on black in so...   Sep 14 2007, 08:54 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Sep 14 2007, 01:54 A...   Sep 14 2007, 04:15 PM
- - Juramike   (Objects collide) Object one: "Heeeey, you ...   Sep 14 2007, 03:41 PM
- - nprev   ...of course, in the Family Guy parody of this com...   Sep 14 2007, 04:00 PM
- - Michael Capobianco   I have to choose white on black on white - black e...   Sep 14 2007, 04:33 PM
- - lyford   The only thing that I can say is that after readin...   Sep 14 2007, 05:00 PM
- - MarcF   It was not a good idea to go to vacation far from ...   Sep 15 2007, 04:26 PM
- - tasp   I would pick transparent material everywhere, keye...   Sep 15 2007, 04:59 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 15 2007, 04:59 PM) I wo...   Sep 15 2007, 08:34 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (David @ Sep 15 2007, 09:34 PM) whe...   Sep 15 2007, 09:38 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (ugordan @ Sep 15 2007, 09:38 PM) C...   Sep 16 2007, 03:09 AM
- - tasp   Here is another 'negative' print of Iapetu...   Sep 16 2007, 04:00 AM
- - edstrick   I get an overwhelming impression that the white an...   Sep 16 2007, 05:23 AM
- - Bill Harris   You're right, Ed, this is all very mysterious....   Sep 16 2007, 10:41 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Sep 16 2007, 03:41 A...   Sep 17 2007, 05:22 AM
- - dvandorn   I agree, Bill -- the distribution of dark material...   Sep 16 2007, 02:37 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 16 2007, 02:37 PM) ...   Sep 16 2007, 05:32 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (David @ Sep 16 2007, 12:32 PM) Wha...   Sep 17 2007, 04:48 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 17 2007, 09:48 AM) ...   Sep 17 2007, 05:56 PM
- - tasp   I was wondering about those streamlined (not quite...   Sep 16 2007, 05:38 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 16 2007, 10:38 AM) I wa...   Sep 17 2007, 05:18 AM
- - ilbasso   Seeing that old picture of Stevie Wonder made me t...   Sep 16 2007, 05:45 PM
- - tasp   I can't help but think in the initial flush of...   Sep 17 2007, 04:10 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 17 2007, 04:10 AM) I ca...   Sep 17 2007, 06:10 AM
- - tasp   Hyperion.   Sep 17 2007, 01:53 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 17 2007, 01:53 PM) Hype...   Sep 17 2007, 02:32 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (David @ Sep 17 2007, 03:32 PM) no ...   Sep 17 2007, 04:00 PM
- - nprev   Like oDoug, I too noticed the apparent "dunin...   Sep 17 2007, 04:27 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (nprev @ Sep 17 2007, 11:27 AM) Lik...   Sep 17 2007, 04:59 PM
- - tasp   Here is some more 'ponding' to contemplate...   Sep 17 2007, 05:37 PM
- - tasp   And the comparison. {I suppose it would be nice...   Sep 17 2007, 05:39 PM
- - tasp   Crikey, there is something hinky going on tweenst ...   Sep 17 2007, 05:43 PM
- - tasp   We note earth's moon to have an orbit about ea...   Sep 17 2007, 06:08 PM
- - nprev   True, but Earth's Moon is thought to be an art...   Sep 17 2007, 06:12 PM
- - alan   There was a paper a couple of years ago linking Ti...   Sep 17 2007, 07:42 PM
- - edstrick   What can I say.. just look at this d__n stuff... A...   Sep 18 2007, 08:24 AM
|- - TheChemist   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 18 2007, 11:24 AM) ...   Sep 20 2007, 01:34 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (TheChemist @ Sep 20 2007, 03:34 PM...   Sep 20 2007, 01:45 PM
- - dvandorn   OK -- I understand your conclusion, here. But I s...   Sep 18 2007, 01:46 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 18 2007, 07:46 AM) ...   Sep 19 2007, 05:20 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 18 2007, 03:46 PM) ...   Sep 20 2007, 02:04 PM
- - TheChemist   Ugordan, I think that I see wide openings (holes) ...   Sep 20 2007, 02:00 PM
- - Bill Harris   RE: edstrick and the chemist, posts 40 & 42-- ...   Sep 20 2007, 04:26 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Sep 20 2007, 04:26 P...   Sep 20 2007, 04:51 PM
|- - ustrax   Tilmann Denk's "vote" at spacEurope:...   Sep 24 2007, 04:35 PM
- - dvandorn   After seeing some of the contrast-enhanced images ...   Sep 24 2007, 04:59 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 24 2007, 09:59 AM) ...   Sep 24 2007, 08:03 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 24 2007, 08:03 PM) ...   Sep 24 2007, 09:24 PM
- - Bill Harris   My first, and continuing, impression of the dicho...   Sep 24 2007, 10:04 PM
- - David   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Sep 24 2007, 10:04 P...   Sep 25 2007, 02:48 AM


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