MSL landing sites |
MSL landing sites |
Jun 12 2007, 09:43 PM
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#31
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 5-July 06 Member No.: 955 |
I'm surprised that no one has talked about landing near the newly discovered Martian blackholes or possibly the guyser at the pole (although they may be too dangerous). At the very least, MSL should land somewhere that is not favorable to solar powered rovers.
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Jun 17 2007, 03:51 PM
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 656 Joined: 20-April 05 From: League City, Texas Member No.: 285 |
Considering the moderately persuasive argument supporting the notion of a past ocean in the northern hemisphere, as reported in the current issue of Nature (http://www.nature.com.libux.utmb.edu/nature/journal/v447/n7146/full/nature05873.html - if you have access), I would be inclined to shift my preference to a landing site which would be near exposed sediments from the floor of that ocean, perhaps in delta deposits. To me, the odds are that if any macroscopic life ever evolved on Mars, it would have been in this ocean, and sedimentary deposits from the bottom of the ocean would be the best places to look for fossils, as well as a sedimentary sequence which tells an interesting story. I'm not sure whether there would be any benefit to traversing the remnant shoreline itself.
I'm having trouble matching landing site candidates with the map in the paper, but Nilo Syrtis and Marwth Vallis might be good. |
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Jun 18 2007, 09:35 AM
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#33
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3516 Joined: 4-November 05 From: North Wales Member No.: 542 |
Agreed. In the absence of large scale drilling equipment it would be useful to visit a relatively fresh crater that has excavated through marine sediments.
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Jun 18 2007, 10:39 AM
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 127 Joined: 18-July 05 Member No.: 438 |
... but Nilo Syrtis and Marwth Vallis might be good. Mawrth, not Marwth. It's Welsh for, er, Mars. I hope I'm not appearing to be super-pedantic here; it's just that this is a very common spelling mistake (looks like it derives from a MEX OMEGA Science paper, and some related press releases where they got it wrong.). If you're wondering about the pronunciation, it's similar to "Martha" without the second "a"! |
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Jun 18 2007, 01:12 PM
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 656 Joined: 20-April 05 From: League City, Texas Member No.: 285 |
Mawrth, not Marwth. It's Welsh for, er, Mars. ... If you're wondering about the pronunciation, it's similar to "Martha" without the second "a"! Funny, I actually went to some effort to get the spelling right, and still missed it. Pronunciation sounds like "Mars" with a lisp . Perhaps all lispers are Welsh? |
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Jun 18 2007, 02:53 PM
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 127 Joined: 18-July 05 Member No.: 438 |
Perhaps all lispers are Welsh? No, but having a lisp often helps! Now that I've had longer to think about it, forget Martha... the pronunciation's exactly like "mouth", but with an "r" slipped in before the "th". (Don't get me started on Pwyll crater on Europa!) |
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Guest_AlexBlackwell_* |
Jun 18 2007, 06:06 PM
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#37
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Guests |
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Jun 18 2007, 07:59 PM
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#38
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3516 Joined: 4-November 05 From: North Wales Member No.: 542 |
Aye, and the other one.
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Guest_Geographer_* |
Jun 22 2007, 07:15 PM
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#39
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Guests |
Why does elevation matter in designing the rover? I can understand latitude mattering because of communications with an orbiter, but elevation?
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Jun 22 2007, 07:17 PM
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#40
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14434 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
The higher you go - the less air your parachute has to work with. 'lower' altitiudes make for an easier landing.
Doug |
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Guest_AlexBlackwell_* |
Jun 22 2007, 07:18 PM
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#41
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Guests |
You might want to take a look at the latest version of the MSL engineering constraints document, which discusses the elevation limitations.
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Jun 23 2007, 05:01 AM
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#42
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1870 Joined: 20-February 05 Member No.: 174 |
The more pounds per square foot (grams per square centimeter) of vehicle you have behind a heatshield (and a bigger vehicle is more or less inevitably deeper, front to back with more "column mass"), the less the atmosphere can slow you down before you do "ares-braking" instead of "aero-braking"...
zip..... CRUNCH! I'm going to be off by a factor of a few times, but here's a zero'h order armwave... Earth. 1 atmosphere surface pressure. 14 pounds (mass) of air per square inch. Mars. 1/200'th atmosphere surface pressure. That's about 10 ounces / 30 grams per square inch. Double that (roughly) to compensate for gravity. How many ounces per square inch is the MSL in it's heat shield? There's only so many pounds of atmosphere in the way of a so many pound entry vehicle trying to slow it down. When an entry vehicle masses more than a column of atmosphere of the same diameter between surface and space, it just can't slow down a vehicle before the vehicle hits. Would a column of atmosphere (along an entry trajectory) massing the same as an entry vehicle slow it down 50%... very very roughly, I think so (ignoring gravity). |
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Jul 13 2007, 03:25 PM
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 808 Joined: 10-October 06 From: Maynard Mass USA Member No.: 1241 |
After looking at all the MRO landing site images and counting rocks and such, it just makes sense to this complete amateur that the only place to set down MSL is on/near the famous ice packs of Elysium Planatia.
water? / ice? / extant life? What would I add to the mission? ...bring an industrial sized RAT and BRUSH for more info, Google: ice packs mars -------------------- CLA CLL
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Jul 13 2007, 03:53 PM
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#44
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10229 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
Elysium Planitia (AKA ice pack) might look like a good landing site, but there are some problems with it. First, it might be classed as a "special region", which MSL will not be sufficiently sterilized to land in. In the event of a crash, the RTG could encounter ice and create a warm water oasis (not very big, certainly, but still viable). This is not allowed for MSL. (Phoenix should encounter ice, but it will remain very cold).
Second, MSL's instruments don't suit it. A drill might be needed to get to any ice. This could be an ideal spot for a thoroughly sterilized deep drill mission in the future. Also, Elysium Planitia is really a one target site. Once you have looked at one location, what is there to do? It's quite uniform. MSL is designed to explore up and down a stack of sediments, or a similar multi-target site. For this reason, MSL would also be wasted on one of the 'windows' mentioned in a post above. An ideal MSL site will have dozens of distinct targets within about 10 or 15 km of the landing site, plus a potential for a really good extended mission with many more targets over a much longer traverse. Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PDF: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Jul 13 2007, 04:06 PM
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#45
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2922 Joined: 14-February 06 From: Very close to the Pyrénées Mountains (France) Member No.: 682 |
Elysium Planitia (AKA ice pack) might look like a good landing site, but there are some problems with it. First, it might be classed as a "special region", which MSL will not be sufficiently sterilized to land in. Can somebody explain me why some part of Phoenix are sterilized at 300.000 spore/m² while the arm is at 1 spore/m² (source Phoenix-Launch-presskit)? I mean, why can we sterilize MSL with the later value at least for the parts in contact with Mars ? PS : not only there is a risk of crash for MSL RTG's but also the Crane (or whaterver you call it) will definitively crash anyway. -------------------- |
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