What's Up With Hayabusa? (fka Muses-c) Options

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

Given the extent of the malfunctions Hayabusa had after its final sampling run (we now learn that its battery is dead and that its entire supply of chemical maneuvering fuel has leaked away), I wonder if it may have hit the surface hard enough to be seriously damaged? If so, it would simply prove again that sampling a small, rugged, rotating object is a rather difficult technological feat and you can't expect to do it on a shoestring.

It's to the credit of the Japanese that they came as close as they did on such a small budget; but it's to their discredit that they set the mission at such a small budget to begin with -- even given that it was to a large extent an engineering test mission. They certainly didn't manage to prove the reliability of many of the systems they were testing.

[helvick]

even given that it was to a large extent an engineering test mission. They certainly didn't manage to prove the reliability of many of the systems they were testing.

This may not be a popular position in a forum like this but "failure" in an engineering test should not be viewed as universally bad and is often a good thing because if the failure can be successfully analysed it puts a very clearly defined marker down on what is not possible.

Whether or not that will apply to Hayabusa I can't say but I'm hopeful that the failures in this case will lead to better probes in the future.

This is a concept that is covered in a lot of detail in To Engineer Is Human : The Role of Failure in Successful Design by Henry Petroski . The book itself is mostly about structural engineering but the principle quite clearly extends to any endeavor where humans push technology and their ability to build beyond what is currently known. It's a tad dated but an interesting read all the same.

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

This may not be a popular position in a forum like this but "failure" in an engineering test should not be viewed as universally bad and is often a good thing because if the failure can be successfully analysed it puts a very clearly defined marker down on what is not possible.

Well, Hayabusa certainly proved that it's hard to pull off an asteroid sample-return mission for only a couple of hundred million dollars -- but the Japanese had already established in mission after mission over the last 15 years that they were consistently spending too little to achieve their desired space goals. While going through my notes I have, in fact, found an Aviation Week article dating from about 1999 and describing an official Japanese study in which they had already concluded exactly that. (More details when I dig it up again.) However, they have continued to spend too little for their goals since then.

[ljk4-1]

While not ignoring all the problems Hayabusa had, it must be said that in
addition to exploring a new world for the first time, they did what most
real pioneers do: Pave the way for future missions, take all the brunts of
the unknown, and expose the bugs in the system.

There was a time when just flying by a world and taking a few measurements
and images was considered a major achievement for knowledge.

Is there a list of the scientific and engineering accomplishments Haybusa
did do so far?

[lyford]

This may not be a popular position in a forum like this but "failure" in an engineering test should not be viewed as universally bad and is often a good thing because if the failure can be successfully analysed it puts a very clearly defined marker down on what is not possible.

While I agree that it may be possible to salvage good engineering data and learn from past attempts, by constantly underfunding JAXA is metaphorically "sacrificing pawn after pawn" with no queen to play....

And it's true that they are trying new things, but they are the ones setting their own goal posts too high, to mix chess and sports metaphors. See their success criteria here.

And here's the English JAXA Hayabusa Data (not too current though)

[odave]

I think it's great that they were able to re-establish comm. Given the 60-70% chance they gave back in December, I figured Hayabusa was a goner for sure. It seems like those kind of odds almost never hit in this business. The situation is certainly dire, though - at least they aren't giving up.

My perspective may be skewed due to my interest and UMSF, but it seems like Hayabusa has gotten more worldwide attention than previous JAXA missions. Maybe the excitement it generated, coupled with the "oh, soooo close" disappointment, can help convince the JAXA brass to cut loose some more money and set better goals the next time around.

Anyhow, best wishes to the Hayabusa team for their attempt to bring the wounded bird home, and have a case of Lipovitan-D on me!

[nop]

This thread is full of encouraging posts!

Is there a list of the scientific and engineering accomplishments Haybusa
did do so far?

Several scientific papers have already been published or are in press. They say that papers on the first scientific achievement will appear on "Science" on this month or next. Also LPSC this week has many presentations on Hayabusa.

Here is a summary page for Hayabusa mission edited by volunteers, including an incomplete but updated list of papers:
http://hayabusa.matome-site.jp/English+Information/

Most of their accomplishments have not released yet, so please wait
i think they have been too busy to release them

[lyford]

Thank you, nop, that link is very informative, much more complete than the "official" English page I found.

[Michael Capobian...]

During the LPSC, was there any indication during the Hayabusa talks that more high res images would be released? In particular, anything about images of the intact fragments sticking out?

Michael

[babakm]

Av Week article on the Little Mission that Could.

[elakdawalla]

During the LPSC, was there any indication during the Hayabusa talks that more high res images would be released? In particular, anything about images of the intact fragments sticking out?

I understand that there will be a special issue of Science coming out -- I assume there will be more images and maps released then.

--Emily

[elakdawalla]

These two Hayabusa topics are getting confusing. I have moved the recent discussions to the Return to Earth topic and closed this one down.

--Emily