"Pluto is dead" - Mike Brown, It's official Options

[Bill Harris]

My opinion? They are loonies.

There may be good logic for not designating the KBOs and other minor Solar System objects as planets, but Pluto ought to be a special case since it was discovered and named in the pre-interplanetary probe era and should be "grandfathered" in.

My 2c.

--Bill

[ugordan]

Pluto ought to be a special case since it was discovered and named in the pre-interplanetary probe era

So was Ceres.

Geez. this debate will never end, for as long as Pluto exists. Therefore, I suggest we blow it up. No Pluto, no problem.

[Stu]

If a school does spend a total of 5 hours on the solar system

You see, this is the problem, right here. We're all happy with the idea of a school spending just 5 hours teaching about the solar system. 5 hours! That's NOTHING!

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that the Pluto-related items I listed should be taught at the expense of other astronomical subjects, phenomena and places, far from it. I was trying to say that astronomy is such a huge, huge subject that every planet deserves more than a mere "10-15 minutes". Jeez, I spend whole mornings and afternoon running junior school workshops about the solar system, and have to force myself to keep Mars' section under control as I could easily spend the whole session just talking about Valles Marineris!

This is a real "grrrr!!!" of mine, the quality of science education in schools. I can only speak from experience of schools over here in the UK, but "space" is taught appallingly, almost non-existently. There are token efforts made to cover the subject, at best. If the Pluto debate is the catalyst for improving that then yaaaay, I'm all for it. I just worry that what's more likely is that teachers - those that can be bothered - will take the debate as a sign that Pluto's not even worth bothering with to astronomers, and sweep it under the carpet, dismissing it as an iceball.

[odave]

Hmmm... 10-15 minutes to explain how Pluto was predicted, then found...

I was thinking of 8-10 year old elementary students, so the classification discussion doesn't have to be quite so detailed. I totally agree with that even that's too much to spend on this matter, but the cat's out of the bag. I'll be paying closer attention than normal to what happens in class when space comes around again this year. I'm sure the better teachers will make an effort to balance the time on the issue and "get it right", but unfortunately I feel a majority of them will teach straight from the book, or worse, straight from the standardized test.

And kudos to Stu for doing those workshops! I've done several astronomy nights myself, and I've always found the students & teachers very appreciative of the extra exposure.

[alan]

Geez. this debate will never end, for as long as Pluto exists. Therefore, I suggest we blow it up. No Pluto, no problem.

DON'T DO IT

If that much plutonium (1.3 * 10^22 kg) was detonated it would release 10^36 Joules. More energy than the sun produces in 88 years.

[Guest_Myran_*]

ugordan wrote: So was Ceres.

Thats correct, Ceres was declared to be a planet at first. One reason for that was that it fitted in the right slot for the idea of the now defunct 'Titus-Bode law'. But also that the size wasnt known.

So
1: Demoting one object of the planet label have been done before.
2: It happened when the true size of the object began to be obvious.

The same happened to Pluto in a step by step process after Charon had been discovered. The estimated size was downgraded and after the set of eclipses we had a the size nailed down.

Yet I agree with Bill Harris that we might have been able to keep Pluto, I would have liked that personally. The only good point I have for that is that Pluto are inside the actual belt of KBO's, but little other pro's. The list of cons starting with the elliptical Neptune crossing orbit & out of the ecliptic gets uncomfortably long - so its not about logic or facts but only 'sentimental' reasons.

Now what if someone actually do discover lets say one object in or close to the plane of the ecliptic and a near circular orbit & 5000 km diameter out there?
Well even I would give up my stance about that one not might be one KBO's that makes up same belt and depending on how many ways it qualify have to say that it instead are a never finished protoplanet or actual planet embedded in same belt.

[MCS]

So was Ceres.

Geez. this debate will never end, for as long as Pluto exists. Therefore, I suggest we blow it up. No Pluto, no problem.

If only there were a handy Death Star around:

"Foolish earthlings, quibbling over such trivial matters. I will settle this argument for them. Permanently."

It would keep astronomers busy cataloguing all the new KBOs!

[ugordan]

If only there were a handy Death Star around:

That's easy -- I wonder if Mimas can be reactivated after being unused for such a long time. We all know it's not actually an ordinary moon of Saturn...

[Bill Harris]

>The same happened to Pluto in a step by step process after Charon had been discovered.

Yes, and Pluto has been teetering on the fence for a while as folks considered it to be an escaped moon of Neptune.

--Bill

[tasp]

Am I alone in wondering why this IAU edict is even happening in this time frame?

Pluto has been on the planet roster for a very long time now, could this matter have been tabled till after the New Horizons flyby?

If Pluto turns out to have geysers, weather, climate, tectonics, lakes, volcanoes, lightning, aurorae, rings, hurricanes, magnetic field, etc. perhaps there would be a new debate regarding what a planet is?

[ugordan]

If Pluto turns out to have geysers, weather, climate, tectonics, lakes, volcanoes, lightning, aurorae, rings, hurricanes, magnetic field, etc. perhaps there would be a new debate regarding what a planet is?

Titan likely has most of those things, but I don't see such a fuss pushing for it to be a planet. I don't think interestingness should be a factor in determining what is a planet. Nor do I think being a planet should be a factor determining if something's interesting.

[David]

Titan likely has most of those things, but I don't see such a fuss pushing for it to be a planet.

You haven't been listening to Jason!

[ugordan]

You haven't been listening to Jason!

Nah.. He also hates Europa, so go figure!

[Jeff7]

I just worry that what's more likely is that teachers - those that can be bothered - will take the debate as a sign that Pluto's not even worth bothering with to astronomers, and sweep it under the carpet, dismissing it as an iceball.

Too many of those teachers are probably completely unaware that Pluto has its very own flyby mission en route.

If only there were a handy Death Star around:

"Foolish earthlings, quibbling over such trivial matters. I will settle this argument for them. Permanently."

It would keep astronomers busy cataloguing all the new KBOs!

But the Empire would only be interested in blowing up Charon.

>The same happened to Pluto in a step by step process after Charon had been discovered.

Yes, and Pluto has been teetering on the fence for a while as folks considered it to be an escaped moon of Neptune.

--Bill

The other half of the proposed Triton duo perhaps? What I refer to is of course the theory that Triton was a wandering object, with a partner, and when they got too close to Neptune, Triton was captured while the other one was flung away.

[Guest_AlexBlackwell_*]

Mike Brown is the guest for the latest edition of Planetary Radio.