IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Water Flow On The Valley Floor!
SigurRosFan
post Sep 17 2005, 09:23 PM
Post #1


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 531
Joined: 24-August 05
Member No.: 471



Original link: http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/09/15/

Okay, okay. biggrin.gif It's only a FLOW of a SEA oF DUNES. tongue.gif



--------------------
- blue_scape / Nico -
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Sep 17 2005, 11:24 PM
Post #2





Guests






Oh, nonsense. Any Hoaglandite can see it's just the top of a giant earthworm.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bob Shaw
post Sep 17 2005, 11:31 PM
Post #3


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2488
Joined: 17-April 05
From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Member No.: 239



QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 18 2005, 12:24 AM)
Oh, nonsense.  Any Hoaglandite can see it's just the top of a giant earthworm.
*


Bruce:

It's not the, er, top, I'm afraid. That's a fully-growed sandworm in the advanced stages of the mating season... ...you should see the next frame!

Bob Shaw


--------------------
Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElkGroveDan
post Sep 18 2005, 03:41 AM
Post #4


Senior Member
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 4763
Joined: 15-March 05
From: Glendale, AZ
Member No.: 197



You guys will have to admit that I did the colors really well. Been watching Tman's work.


--------------------
If Occam had heard my theory, things would be very different now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post Sep 18 2005, 07:23 AM
Post #5





Guests






Let us be serious: this image is not from mars it is from Arrakis, and it shows one of its famous sandworm.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post Sep 18 2005, 08:40 AM
Post #6





Guests






Let us be not serious:
hearing you all speaking all the time about Hoagland I end up visiting his site, to make my own opinion.

It is very well done, in fact, with a professionnal design, charts and all, a certain scientific culture and vocabulary, and many true scientific references. It avoids to grossly distort the facts, just introducing a bit of mystery here, a bit of dogmatic scientists there, and when we discard his theories it is because we are establishment scientists unable to question our own theories, as really are some established scientists. But for a person with no scientific culture (or worse bad sci-fi culture) Hoagland's theories cannot be distinguished from true science!!

That amateurs or nutters question science in an absurd way, this is not new. But that "professionnals" with a certain scientific culture and abundant funding do this, it is much more disturbing.

"anomalies" are often based on subtle mistakes. For instance, years ago I heard of Bruce De Palma's "N machine" a kind of dynamo with a conductive plate rotating together with a cylindrical magnet, and which, after known electrodynamics theories, produces no current. However De Palma stated that it produced "free energy" and this was ignored because scientists would be a bunch of dogmatic believers. Who was right? To settle the question, I built myself a "N machine". And it produced a current... Was all our known physics just good to throw to the dust bin? No: the current was induced, not in the rotating plate, which was rotating together with the magnet, but in the peripheral brush, wich was fixed, and thus "rotating" relative to the magnet. I checked with a larger plate, placing the brush outsite the magnetic field, the current diappeared. And now, if somebody has any claim of a "free energy" machine or the like, I fully support him... as soon as he brings me a working model.

Many people with no scientific culture are fundamentally unable to distinguish hoaglandites from true science, and thus fall victim of such false theories, and uselessly lose confidence into scientists and governments.

But the most subtle victims are true anomalies (I mean facts which remain unexplained by thorough examination with known science and history). One of such anomalies which has its own thread on this forum is the Pioneer anomaly. There are also some UFO cases which remained unexplained despites serious examination by professional scientists. There are others which are out of the topic of this forum.

In a good science spirit, when a theory is well established, then the anomalies are the priority spots to examine, because only anomalies bear the potential of new discoveries. Well known example of this are the "absurd" result of the Michelson Morley experiment, which led to Relativity, or the discovery of the cosmic background, or this student who tried to observe that strange radio beats in the sky against the advice of her masters...

But the first thing to do when we have an anomaly it to check out any common explanation. And the second thing to do would be to stop any babbling about this... Today, by the fault of Hoagland and his consorts, the persons interested in true anomalies must keep silent!!! And this is not the worse inconvenient of having two thirds of the world medias in the hands of only two persons.


Thanks SigurRosFan for this beautiful image, showing what is very probably an ancient flow channel, filled with alluvial sand which later took the shape of dunes.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bob Shaw
post Sep 18 2005, 12:00 PM
Post #7


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2488
Joined: 17-April 05
From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Member No.: 239



Richard:

I am by nature and enthusiasm a heretic in all things; show me an article of accepted knowledge and I have an urge to challenge it. However, my challenges are based on quite conservative principles, and - best of all - I can distinguish between bad science-fiction versions of the Universe and reality.

There used to be a phenomenon known as 'green ink syndrome' or 'lined paper disease'. This was the unreasonably accurate way of deciding if a new theory, sent unannounced in the post to some eminent (or at least very public) scientist was the work of a, well, how may I put it? Er... ...'enthusiast'? If it was written in green ink, or on lined paper, and purported to be THE TRUTH, then...

...well, it wasn't the truth, let's put it like that!

With the advent of the WWW and a smattering of graphic design (aided also by the oft-quoted dumbing down of real science as a result of PowerPoint) the green ink and lined paper tests are no more, so we're simply left with claims regarding THE TRUTH. In all honesty, the tests for cookiness are not in terms of the strict scientific method, but are more sociological! Any system which claims to be complete, and unified, and superior to all others is, IMHO, de facto plain wrong. Real science is about uncertainty, division, and challenge - but in the details, not in the whole world-view, and conspiracy and secrets are rarely part of that way of dealing with the world.

I wonder if CAPITALS have replaced green ink? Hmmm...

Bob Shaw


--------------------
Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- SigurRosFan   Water Flow On The Valley Floor!   Sep 17 2005, 09:23 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   Are you sure about the dunes? I found the color v...   Sep 17 2005, 10:20 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Sep 17 2005, 11:20 PM)Ar...   Sep 17 2005, 10:24 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Oh, nonsense. Any Hoaglandite can see it's ju...   Sep 17 2005, 11:24 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 18 2005, 12:24 AM)Oh...   Sep 17 2005, 11:31 PM
|- - ElkGroveDan   You guys will have to admit that I did the colors ...   Sep 18 2005, 03:41 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Let us be serious: this image is not from mars it ...   Sep 18 2005, 07:23 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Let us be not serious: hearing you all speaking al...   Sep 18 2005, 08:40 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   Richard: I am by nature and enthusiasm a heretic ...   Sep 18 2005, 12:00 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Bob, I am very interested by all what is unexplain...   Sep 18 2005, 06:51 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   In any case, it can't possibly be a Sandworm. ...   Sep 18 2005, 09:38 PM
|- - mchan   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 18 2005, 02:38 PM)(P...   Sep 20 2005, 02:31 AM
- - edstrick   Bruce Moomaw: "....Why can't we have a f...   Sep 19 2005, 06:52 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Oh, yes, I'd forgotten about Nick. His status...   Sep 19 2005, 08:54 AM
|- - RGClark   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 19 2005, 08:54 AM).....   Sep 19 2005, 05:06 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 19 2005, 09:54 AM)By...   Sep 19 2005, 05:54 PM
- - edstrick   Dick was a good author, wrote a lot of trash, but ...   Sep 19 2005, 10:55 AM
|- - David   QUOTE Hollywood and the literary establishment has...   Sep 19 2005, 11:36 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 19 2005, 05:55 AM)Holly...   Sep 20 2005, 05:49 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Keep in mind that -- while Hollywood claims to reg...   Sep 19 2005, 12:43 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 19 2005, 07:43 AM)As...   Sep 20 2005, 06:09 PM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 20 2005, 06:09 PM)And a...   Sep 20 2005, 07:43 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (RGClark @ Sep 19 2005, 05:06 PM)Ok, yo...   Sep 20 2005, 02:57 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   "The process continues within SF fandom, at l...   Oct 5 2005, 11:15 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Oct 6 2005, 12:15 AM)...   Oct 6 2005, 09:49 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Oct 6 2005, 09:49 AM)Bruce:...   Oct 6 2005, 10:02 PM
- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Oct 6 2005, 11:02 PM)Yea...   Oct 6 2005, 10:17 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 06:34 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.