IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

14 Pages V  « < 6 7 8 9 10 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Cape York - The "Lakelands", Starting sol 2703
djellison
post Sep 19 2011, 05:49 PM
Post #106


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14431
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1



QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Sep 19 2011, 02:38 AM) *
That is what I initially thought but decided that the surface looked "too glassy" to be deeply weathered. I imagine that the actual criteria for hardness of the rock would be Oppy's RAT engineering telemetry, such as the current draw or the grind time of the operation, and not amount of cuttings.

--Bill



They have indeed done just that - infer hardness based on RAT performance. If you remember back in the early days - a berry was picked up mid-grind as a spike, and later caused the RAT to stall.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jam Butty
post Sep 20 2011, 01:28 AM
Post #107


Junior Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 54
Joined: 10-August 11
Member No.: 6119



Tribulation L257
sols 2718 & 20

Attached Image
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CosmicRocker
post Sep 20 2011, 05:44 AM
Post #108


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2228
Joined: 1-December 04
From: Marble Falls, Texas, USA
Member No.: 116



QUOTE (marsophile @ Sep 18 2011, 11:59 PM) *
Does that mean it is not basaltic?

While fresh basalt is a pretty hard rock, the softness doesn't rule out basalt. If basalt is weathered or altered, especially in the presence of water, it can become quite soft. I think the light color of this rock pretty much eliminates it from having an overall basaltic composition, though the dark, angular rock fragments embedded in the breccia could very well be basalt. The minerals of basalt are very dark in color.

The dark blocks of a different breccia lying on top of the nearby hill look very much like basalt. The geology here is fascinating. I can't wait for Opportunity to explore more of Cape York and send back more pictures. smile.gif

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Sep 19 2011, 04:38 AM) *
That is what I initially thought but decided that the surface looked "too glassy" to be deeply weathered. I imagine that the actual criteria for hardness of the rock would be Oppy's RAT engineering telemetry, such as the current draw or the grind time of the operation, and not amount of cuttings. ...


Bill: You are right about the RAT telemetry being the ultimate measure of the rock hardness, but it will be a while before that data will be available...and I won't know how to interpret it when the data is released. My comment on the rock's softness was based solely on depth of the grind. We know that the remaining life of the RAT is a resource the team is trying to conserve for the most important scientific targets, so I would be surprised if they instructed the rover to grind away on this first target without limits. To me, it looks like other soft rocks they have ground into. smile.gif


--------------------
...Tom

I'm not a Space Fan, I'm a Space Exploration Enthusiast.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CosmicRocker
post Sep 20 2011, 05:54 AM
Post #109


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2228
Joined: 1-December 04
From: Marble Falls, Texas, USA
Member No.: 116



QUOTE (Jam Butty @ Sep 19 2011, 07:28 PM) *
Tribulation L257
sols 2718 & 20

I really appreciate that you post important information like the sol and the filters used in your images. Some people often neglect to provide that information, and that makes it difficult for others to follow up. smile.gif


--------------------
...Tom

I'm not a Space Fan, I'm a Space Exploration Enthusiast.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bill Harris
post Sep 20 2011, 09:14 AM
Post #110


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2998
Joined: 30-October 04
Member No.: 105



For sure. The surface we are looking at is the product of 3 bln years of deposition, weathering and erosion and each rock fragment tells a story. Some of these rocks are ejectite'd impactites. blink.gif

There are going to be many profound papers generated from the data at this site.

I'm sure that they know precisely what the "hardness" of the rock is from the engineering data, which we in the p'nut gallery are not privy to. Just as they have an idea what mineral is represently by every "RGB color" we see in the Pancams. Even with seriously degraded IDD parts, geologists have made do with scratch plates, acid bottles and rock hammers and calibrated "TLAR"eyeballs for decades for mineral identification.

The first thing they are doing on Sol-2722 ("today") is making a FHazcam assessment of the RAT teeth("frhaz_RAT_bit_check_subframe") and getting ready to do chemistry ("front_haz_idd_apxs_doc").

Having snagged the post-grind Pancams of Salisbury1 from the 0:35 Data Express and done my preliminary oooh-ing and ahhh-ing, I'm hitting the sack again... yawnn smile.gif

--Bill


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fran Ontanaya
post Sep 20 2011, 10:18 AM
Post #111


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 293
Joined: 22-September 08
From: Spain
Member No.: 4350



QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Sep 20 2011, 07:44 AM) *
the dark, angular rock fragments embedded in the breccia could very well be basalt. The minerals of basalt are very dark in color.


Could they be obsidian in a perlite matrix?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bill Harris
post Sep 20 2011, 11:19 AM
Post #112


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2998
Joined: 30-October 04
Member No.: 105



Couldn't get my beauty rest, I ended up working on the new images. Note the implication of different mineralogy-- the RAT cuttings are purplish or gray, instead of the usual ochre or blue.







--Bill


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mhoward
post Sep 20 2011, 03:10 PM
Post #113


Senior Member
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 3431
Joined: 11-August 04
From: USA
Member No.: 98



Here's an attempt at a color flicker pair. L257, R21(synthesized green), animated GIF, anaglyph
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image

 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
djellison
post Sep 20 2011, 03:30 PM
Post #114


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14431
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1



All that different to earlier grindings?

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/pre...1-B041R1_br.jpg
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bill Harris
post Sep 20 2011, 05:51 PM
Post #115


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2998
Joined: 30-October 04
Member No.: 105



Good example. This is the first RAT done in Eagle Crater on Sol-36.

More difference than 21km and 2+ Billion years...

--Bill
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil Stooke
post Sep 20 2011, 06:26 PM
Post #116


Solar System Cartographer
****

Group: Members
Posts: 10146
Joined: 5-April 05
From: Canada
Member No.: 227



It would be interesting to compile a sequence of images showing the RAT holes at different dates - right now we are getting that small circle inside the larger one, which was not seen in the first hole. When did it start looking like that?

Phil


--------------------
... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.

Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke
NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
centsworth_II
post Sep 20 2011, 07:14 PM
Post #117


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2173
Joined: 28-December 04
From: Florida, USA
Member No.: 132



QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Sep 20 2011, 01:26 PM) *
... right now we are getting that small circle inside the larger one, which was not seen in the first hole....

My guess is, that's what happens when the two grinding wheels are not rotated around each other.

"Two grinding wheels rotate at high speeds. These wheels also rotate around each other at a much slower speed so that the two grinding wheels sweep the entire cutting area."
http://marsrover.nasa.gov/mission/spacecraft_instru_rat.html
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
M@!
post Sep 20 2011, 07:47 PM
Post #118


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 7-July 09
Member No.: 4857



It may be a result of the damage to the RAT brush. At the very least it's not new. I see similar circle-within-a-circle patterns in this RAT hole from Sol 2513.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bill Harris
post Sep 20 2011, 08:08 PM
Post #119


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2998
Joined: 30-October 04
Member No.: 105



The circle-within-a-circle is how the RAT operates. The carbide cutters are on an arm that moves around in a cyclical motion. You can see how it works in the images at the Athena site (the link to the "Honeywell Robotics" RAT site is dead):

http://athena.cornell.edu/the_mission/ins_rat.html

After the grind is done the brush is supposed to clear away the cuttings but the brush is kaflooey...


You can get an idea of how well it works from this animation: smile.gif smile.gif

http://images.spaceref.com/news/2004/rover.armspin.mov


--Bill


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil Stooke
post Sep 20 2011, 08:22 PM
Post #120


Solar System Cartographer
****

Group: Members
Posts: 10146
Joined: 5-April 05
From: Canada
Member No.: 227



Interesting responses! But that's why it would be interesting to collect RAT images throughout the mission to see how the holes have varied in appearance. Anyone? (I don't have time right now)

Phil


--------------------
... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.

Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke
NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

14 Pages V  « < 6 7 8 9 10 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th April 2024 - 01:03 PM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.