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Astronomy question
ustrax
post Jul 17 2006, 11:07 AM
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I've been looking for some site that could do this work but I not being lucky finding one...
What I would like to know, and maybe someone with more knowledge and ability for the stars stuff could answer me this:
Was there a moment in time where Ophiuchus was in the sky's azimuth and, at the same time, having the Piscis Austrinus and Aquarius constellation on the Eastern horizon?

Thank you in advance.

Or...Secondary question...If there is a time in the year where were closer to this scenario when would it be? (All this for the Northern hemisphere, south of Portugal)


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Michael Capobian...
post Jul 17 2006, 02:48 PM
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Yes, although Ophiuchus would be moving over to the west a bit when Fomalhaut (alpha Piscis Austrini) is rising at about 12:30 this time of year.

The constellations would be in about the same position at 8:30 in mid-September.

Michael



QUOTE (ustrax @ Jul 17 2006, 07:07 AM) *
I've been looking for some site that could do this work but I not being lucky finding one...
What I would like to know, and maybe someone with more knowledge and ability for the stars stuff could answer me this:
Was there a moment in time where Ophiuchus was in the sky's azimuth and, at the same time, having the Piscis Austrinus and Aquarius constellation on the Eastern horizon?

Thank you in advance.

Or...Secondary question...If there is a time in the year where were closer to this scenario when would it be? (All this for the Northern hemisphere, south of Portugal)
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ustrax
post Jul 17 2006, 03:37 PM
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QUOTE (Michael Capobianco @ Jul 17 2006, 03:48 PM) *
The constellations would be in about the same position at 8:30 in mid-September.

Michael


Thank you very much Michael! smile.gif
Would that have something to do with the autumnal equinox or are we speaking of completely different things?


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Michael Capobian...
post Jul 17 2006, 03:51 PM
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There's no connection that I'm aware of.

Michael


QUOTE (ustrax @ Jul 17 2006, 11:37 AM) *
Thank you very much Michael! smile.gif
Would that have something to do with the autumnal equinox or are we speaking of completely different things?
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ustrax
post Jul 17 2006, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE (Michael Capobianco @ Jul 17 2006, 04:51 PM) *
There's no connection that I'm aware of.

Michael


But the constellations are in that position in mid-September year after year or it only happens this year?
If it is annual, in spite of having no connection with the equinox, can it be seen as a prelude of it?


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Michael Capobian...
post Jul 17 2006, 04:30 PM
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Except for precession, which slowly changes the position of the constellations over hundreds of years, this is indeed the position of the constellations every year. I guess the rising of Fomalhaut just after sunset could be viewed as a prelude to the coming equinox.

Michael


QUOTE (ustrax @ Jul 17 2006, 12:03 PM) *
But the constellations are in that position in mid-September year after year or it only happens this year?
If it is annual, in spite of having no connection with the equinox, can it be seen as a prelude of it?
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ustrax
post Jul 17 2006, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE (Michael Capobianco @ Jul 17 2006, 05:30 PM) *
Except for precession, which slowly changes the position of the constellations over hundreds of years, this is indeed the position of the constellations every year. I guess the rising of Fomalhaut just after sunset could be viewed as a prelude to the coming equinox.

Michael


I like that! biggrin.gif
And when Fomalhaut rises is Ophiuchus in the zenith or disappearing through the western horizon?
...Sorry for all the questions Michael... rolleyes.gif

Do you know of a place where I can find a star map with that precise situation?


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Michael Capobian...
post Jul 17 2006, 04:49 PM
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It's west of the zenith but still overhead.

Go to http://skyandtelescope.com/observing/almanac/ and there's a link to an interactive sky chart towards the bottom of the page. (requires Java)

QUOTE (ustrax @ Jul 17 2006, 12:42 PM) *
I like that! biggrin.gif
And when Fomalhaut rises is Ophiuchus in the zenith or disappearing through the western horizon?
...Sorry for all the questions Michael... rolleyes.gif

Do you know of a place where I can find a star map with that precise situation?
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ustrax
post Jul 17 2006, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE (Michael Capobianco @ Jul 17 2006, 05:49 PM) *
It's west of the zenith but still overhead.

Go to http://skyandtelescope.com/observing/almanac/ and there's a link to an interactive sky chart towards the bottom of the page. (requires Java)


Perfect! That is just the toy I needed! biggrin.gif

Once more thanks a lot Michael!


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ustrax
post Jul 18 2006, 11:52 AM
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Does this have any reliable basis or it is just the 'seing elephants in clouds' syndrome?:

On the left is the area comprising Ophiuchus (bottom = W) and Piscis Austrinus and Aquarius (top = E), on the right a stone monument (not pseudo-science just curiosity!):

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustr...ndres_fig01.jpg

I've seen some patterns between one and the other, mainly:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustr...ndres_fig02.jpg

Then, tried to match them...These neolitic guys...Drinking while working... tongue.gif :

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustr...ndres_fig03.jpg

I would appreciate some comments based on astronomy knowledge.


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jamescanvin
post Jul 18 2006, 12:54 PM
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Now try again with another set of stars - see if the match is any better or worse. wink.gif

I notice you've deleted quite a few stars in the comparison (in the middle) - did the neolithic guys get so drunk they couldn't finish it? tongue.gif

I remember seeing an overlay once of a good match between a set of stars and New York subway stations or something. That was a good demonstration of what you can do with star patterns.

James


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ustrax
post Jul 18 2006, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Jul 18 2006, 01:54 PM) *
Now try again with another set of stars - see if the match is any better or worse. wink.gif

I notice you've deleted quite a few stars in the comparison (in the middle) - did the neolithic guys get so drunk they couldn't finish it? tongue.gif


Maybe they've run out of stones or needed some space for their allucinated raves... rolleyes.gif

Edited: I've deleted the ones looking dimmer...


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Michael Capobian...
post Jul 18 2006, 03:04 PM
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There are some pretty obvious patterns in the sky in that area. For one, Serpens (Caput and Cauda) and the bottom of Ophiuchus trace out a long snake-like line. The summer triangle (Vega, Deneb, and Altair) and, for that matter, the Milky Way should also be prominent in any drawing of the summer sky.

Michael

QUOTE (ustrax @ Jul 18 2006, 09:01 AM) *
Maybe they've run out of stones or needed some space for their allucinated raves... rolleyes.gif

Edited: I've deleted the ones looking dimmer...
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ustrax
post Jul 18 2006, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (Michael Capobianco @ Jul 18 2006, 04:04 PM) *
The summer triangle (Vega, Deneb, and Altair) and, for that matter, the Milky Way should also be prominent in any drawing of the summer sky.


Michael, Altair was my departing point for being the shiniest star in the area, it's the one on the left in this image, the one on the lower right could be Vega and what about Deneb?...:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustr...ndres_fig04.jpg

!Suppositions oh suppositons! rolleyes.gif


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Michael Capobian...
post Jul 18 2006, 03:40 PM
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Actually, I don't see any recognizable patterns in either picture. Could you give us some background on this or a link?

Michael

QUOTE (ustrax @ Jul 18 2006, 11:25 AM) *
Michael, Altair was my departing point for being the shiniest star in the area, it's the one on the left in this image, the one on the lower right could be Vega and what about Deneb?...:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustr...ndres_fig04.jpg

!Suppositions oh suppositons! rolleyes.gif
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