Jupiter flagship selected Options

[centsworth_II]

Anyone who says that Titan is less technically ready than Europa doesn't know what they're talking about.

I would say that flying a balloon on Titan, landing a rover onto who-knows-what kind of surface, and/or landing into a body of liquid methane present entirely new technological challenges. When was the last time the developers of a lander had to worry about rain? Whereas the Jupiter mission is more of a "standard" orbiter mission without the other complications. I don't think there is any arguing which mission involves more new technological developments.

Also, I don't think anyone is -- or should be -- talking winner and loser, only who goes first and who goes second.

[tedstryk]

Anyone who says that Titan is less technically ready than Europa doesn't know what they're talking about.

Well, the report did say that it is less technically ready. I think what they mean is that the mission depends on much more untried technology than the Europa mission. Hence, there is more room for problems. Also, Cassini is still active, raising a greater possibility that some discovery will be made in the near term that will change how we approach the Titan mission. Actually, your feeling that people shouldn't make the claim that the Europa mission is more "ready" because the Titan folks arent "dissing" Europa is absolutely absurd - to say that one mission is more technically ready (in the sense that our knowlege of one world is more likely to significanly improve in the near term and that one mission is more dependent on new technology) is not a put down, and any perceived insult is completely baseless and illegitimate. Moving on....

[EccentricAnomaly]

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[tedstryk]

From the release "Based on these and other studies as well as stringent independent assessment reviews, NASA and ESA agreed that the Europa Jupiter System Mission, called Laplace in Europe, was the most technically feasible to do first." I certainly agree that a Titan mission is a high priority and doable. What I am arguing is that people who consider the Europa mission more technically feasible are not doing so to insult the Titan mission as you seem to suggest. I am not saying that you are necessarily wrong in saying that Titan might be just as feasible with current technology - my point is that those who disagree are not doing so simply to insult the Titan mission.

[centsworth_II]

Which report?

From the NASA press release:
"NASA and ESA engineers and scientists carefully studied both potential missions in preparation for last week's meeting. Based on these and other studies as well as stringent independent assessment reviews, NASA and ESA agreed that the Europa Jupiter System Mission, called Laplace in Europe, was the most technically feasible to do first....

The Titan Saturn System Mission would consist of a NASA orbiter and an ESA lander and research balloon. The complex mission faces several technical challenges requiring significant study and technology development."
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/fea...s/20090218.html

Everyone here wants to see both missions fly. Some of us, like me, thought the Titan mission would be more exciting and give bigger immediate scientific return. Not to say the Europa mission won't be plenty exciting or fruitful! But as a Titan fan, I saw the logic in the decision to go with Europa first as there is less chance that the mission will run into delays trying to work out new technologies. I think you just got hung up on a phrase that struck you wrong.

[nprev]

Not to fan flames, but it also might be wise to consider some of the possible implications of Juramike's Titan soil fluid absorption/surface consistency experiment.

I'm not totally convinced that we understand Titan well enough yet to make conclusive choices with respect to surface exploration methodologies.

[centsworth_II]

I'm not totally convinced that we understand Titan well enough yet to make conclusive choices with respect to surface exploration methodologies.

Look at the trouble that Phoenix ran into on Mars with soil and ice sampling. Can you imagine trying to guess what material properties to account for when designing a sampling system for Titan?

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[Fran Ontanaya]

Well, even if both were equally technologically feasible, the mission profile with less failure points would be more technically feasible.

[centsworth_II]

This is why the lake landing site was selected... pumping in a liquid is easier than trying to figure out how to dig up dune particles.

You would think. Except we don't really know the physical characteristics of the lake contents. Who knows what kind of gunk has formed.

http://www.journeyoftheforsaken.com/dividecreekseep2008.htm

[stevesliva]

Are you suggesting that they need to handle a landing in french onion soup?

[marsbug]

That would be tame compared to actually landing on one of the lakes. besides we don't even know if they're lakes, they could be huge masses of chunky and gooey hydrocarbon goop.

[Juramike]

That would be tame compared to actually landing on one of the lakes. besides we don't even know if they're lakes, they could be huge masses of chunky and gooey hydrocarbon goop.

So I guess they could send the data back as a tarball?

<ducks>

[EccentricAnomaly]

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[EccentricAnomaly]

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