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The MECA story, A place for speculation
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post Aug 3 2008, 03:04 PM
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Of course there's life on Mars. Chuck Norris is everywhere, all the time...watching!


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jmjawors
post Aug 3 2008, 03:17 PM
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Actually, Chuck Norris has already been to Mars; that's why there are no signs of life there. wink.gif

For what it's worth (which is admittedly not much), my take on all this is that it's sort of a "lose/lose" situation. Though I think that Mr. Covault's approach to his question at the briefing was odd and mildly uncomfortable (definite hints of conspiracy in his tone), he certainly has every right and reason to publish his article. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. However, the scientists need to do what they need to do in verifying this potentially "provocative" data before releasing it. At the same time, I honestly don't blame the 'lay person' out there who might read too much into this story because, let's face it, what else are they supposed to read into it?

*sigh*

As someone else said, this will be an interesting month. I find it funny that it has truly turned into a "he said/she said" story (Covault and Phoenix). laugh.gif


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tasp
post Aug 3 2008, 03:20 PM
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{Let me point out I have no inside information, and don't know in great detail how the MECA instrument works}

Can the MECA instrument image a particular sample more than once, and/or at regular intervals ??

And if it did, and something 'got bigger', 'changed color', disappeared, multiplied, or spelled out "all these worlds are yours, except Europa", we might speculate something is indeed "up".

But I hasten to add, scientists would have to rule out vibration in the lander from shaking things around in the sample, or weird (inorganic) chemicals are etching the sample holder or crystallizing, or maybe volatiles are migrating around the sample, etc.

There could be something going on, that while extremely interesting to scientist, might nevertheless be dull and boring to the public at large.

Things like color changes, shifting of granules, and volatiles condensing, might at first glance be one of those "OMG!" moments, but then good old prosaictivity rears it's head, and for the public at least, it's all a big yawn.




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Paul Fjeld
post Aug 3 2008, 03:22 PM
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I just read this on Keith's site:

"Of course, the denizens of that BBS will soon enage in attacks on me and NASA Watch in response - things that Mr. Ellison loftily claims to forbid on his website - but allows to persist when he sees fit. Oh well, Doug, so much (again) for consistency ..."

...and looking at the thread, I think I am mostly to blame for opening the NASA Watch door and am the one who wrote insulting things about Keith. So, I'm sorry. I'll get the hang of the tone you all maintain here - which I really enjoy.

As for Keith, I should apologize also. I actually think he does a very great service and many of his critiques are right on. I just think he would be more effective if he wasn't so obnoxious when he delivers his shots. He is completely wrong about this "BBS" however, and, if he really read the back and forth here, would see this isn't a UMSF "nation" of sycophants.

And now I will concentrate on adding to the signal, not the noise...
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Paul Fjeld
post Aug 3 2008, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE (jmjawors @ Aug 3 2008, 11:17 AM) *
my take on all this is that it's sort of a "lose/lose" situation.

I agree somebody will lose and that makes me sad. It'll be either "get your facts straight" or "never, ever, play the press." My hope is that the team will "lose," but no one will care because the news will be "Come to Mars - just bring your seeds, air and radiation protection." The Phoenix team has done a great job, regardless.
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post Aug 3 2008, 03:33 PM
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Well...let's just put it in perspective: Is any of this worth it? We all know & very much value this forum, wouldn't be here if we didn't.

One of the best things about getting older is that you just don't give a damn what people think or say about you anymore because you have nothing left to prove. I think that UMSF in Internet years has certainly reached the same level of maturity, and the richness of the dialogue & contributions by our extremely talented & knowledgable membership (me excluded!) certainly stand on their own merits, as has been proven by numerous publications & citations in print and elsewhere on the Web. UMSF has nothing left to prove by any standard.

---

Tasp, regarding MECA microscopy: Certainly a possibility, one I have considered, but I'd have to rule it out given the unequivocal denial from the Phoenix Twitter. Think that detection of carbon and/or nitrogen compounds is the front-runner by far.


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Greg Hullender
post Aug 3 2008, 03:51 PM
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Does anyone have a feel for how significant it is for a team to "brief" the President's Science Advisor on preliminary results? Maybe my own getting-older experience is just making me dense, but I'm failing to see why there's a story here.

--Greg
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Paul Fjeld
post Aug 3 2008, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (Paul Fjeld @ Aug 3 2008, 10:30 AM) *
"Come to Mars - just bring your seeds, air and radiation protection."

Correction: I guess if there is nitrogen and water and diggable dirt it could really just be "bring your seeds!"
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imipak
post Aug 3 2008, 04:46 PM
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Well, who knows. If there's anything more to this than silly season hype, it'll be interesting to read/ogle when it's released. Meanwhile, I'm just casting around for an excuse to say: "Ahead, Warp Factor: Wacko!" -- great phrase, Stu! biggrin.gif Though perhaps I should prefer "Speed: Standard by Fruit Loop", per the "Dr Who" thread...


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post Aug 3 2008, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Aug 3 2008, 08:51 AM) *
Does anyone have a feel for how significant it is for a team to "brief" the President's Science Advisor on preliminary results?


Well, for a planetary mission it would be pretty significant indeed...mostly, the Presidential Science Advisor is concerned with developments that might have a direct economic, military, or social impact that would require rapid position and/or policy formation, so it's not done lightly. However, this apparently has not occurred.


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Paul Fjeld
post Aug 3 2008, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE
However, this apparently has not occurred.

You mean from Phoenix twittering from Mars? Bizarre, bizarre PAO response! Could very well be the right one.

imipak, aren't we s'posed to speculate? Like the thread says? I almost want to start a bingo card half populated with "nothing here" and half with >plausible<, non-wacko possibilities. Have a bit of fun with a really weird situation.
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aggieastronaut
post Aug 3 2008, 05:24 PM
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I maintain the Phoenix Facebook profile, and I've been getting quite a few messages and wall posts about it. I got an interesting one saying the goverment was full of ignorant people and only the "true" fans of Phoenix should know what was discussed...

*headdesk commences*
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nprev
post Aug 3 2008, 05:30 PM
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I think that they shut down the most controversial speculation amongst those of us that follow the mission closely rather effectively, but you've got a point. Hopefully there will be a press release soon that will at least set constraints on the possible finding in order to prevent widespread speculation that might lead to unrealistic expectations.


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Paul Fjeld
post Aug 3 2008, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE (aggieastronaut @ Aug 3 2008, 01:24 PM) *
I maintain the Phoenix Facebook profile

Ah! I take it back. Brilliant non-PAO response!
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Stu
post Aug 3 2008, 05:49 PM
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Hi aggie! Heck of a time for a first post, welcome aboard! laugh.gif Don't bang your head on that desk too hard and knock yourself out, got a sneaking suspicion you're going to be rather busy the next few weeks... wink.gif


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