Deep Space 2 |
Deep Space 2 |
May 27 2005, 03:17 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 154 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 206 |
Are there any working theories why the 2 impactor probes (Deep Space 2) that piggybacked on the Mars Polar Lander did not work? Their failure should have nothing to do with the problem with the MPL lander since they were released far above the surface.
I beleive they were designed to withstand 100 gravities of deceleration and still function. Anyone? |
|
|
May 27 2005, 03:49 PM
Post
#2
|
|
Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14431 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Main theory I heard was that the terrain they ended up hitting was very soft and sometimes quite rolling - so they probably destroyed or burried too deep on impact
Doug |
|
|
May 27 2005, 06:33 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
QUOTE (djellison @ May 27 2005, 10:49 AM) Main theory I heard was that the terrain they ended up hitting was very soft and sometimes quite rolling - so they probably destroyed or burried too deep on impact Doug Yeah -- the theory I heard was that either they buried themselves too deeply to be able to send radio signals back out, or that they hit a hillside or inner crater rim at nearly right angles. While the impact at the semi-grazing angle that was anticipated would not have exceeded its designed G-load survivability, if it hit at more of a right angle, the sudden deceleration could exceed the design limits. However, the most interesting reason for their failure I ever heard was in the TV series "The West Wing," which dealt with a fictionalized loss of both MPL (called "Galileo V" in the episode) and its two accompanying hard-landing probes. When told of the plan to crash-land two probes with the expectation of gaining telemetered data from them afterwards, the Josh Lyman character responded (quoting from memory), "Hasn't the Wile E. Coyote theory of physics been pretty well disproven?" -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
|
|
|
May 27 2005, 07:01 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1276 Joined: 25-November 04 Member No.: 114 |
QUOTE When told of the plan to crash-land two probes with the expectation of gaining telemetered data from them afterwards, the Josh Lyman character responded (quoting from memory), "Hasn't the Wile E. Coyote theory of physics been pretty well disproven?" That went right over my head. What did that mean? |
|
|
May 27 2005, 07:15 PM
Post
#5
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 154 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 206 |
Do you guys think there is any merit in this type of impact probe? It does not seam there have been any successfull demostrations of it. I am pretty skeptical that a machine that can survive such a sudden deceleration can also do much science as well.
Thoughts? |
|
|
May 27 2005, 07:30 PM
Post
#6
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2488 Joined: 17-April 05 From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Member No.: 239 |
If the ACME Spacecraft Co made spaceprobes at least we'd be certain that they'd go 'Beep-Beep!' after landing...
...whatever happened to the business of Bugs Bunny and Marvin on Mars, anyway? -------------------- Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
|
|
|
May 27 2005, 07:51 PM
Post
#7
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 154 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 206 |
|
|
|
May 27 2005, 07:58 PM
Post
#8
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2488 Joined: 17-April 05 From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Member No.: 239 |
On a serious note, the Japanese LUNAR-B (I think) probe has *still* not made it into space - and it has several penetrators aboard...
-------------------- Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
|
|
|
May 27 2005, 08:21 PM
Post
#9
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
QUOTE (Decepticon @ May 27 2005, 02:01 PM) QUOTE When told of the plan to crash-land two probes with the expectation of gaining telemetered data from them afterwards, the Josh Lyman character responded (quoting from memory), "Hasn't the Wile E. Coyote theory of physics been pretty well disproven?" That went right over my head. What did that mean? Wile E. Coyote is the cartoon character who is always in pursuit of -- and never catches -- the Roadrunner in the many, many Roadrunner cartoons produced by Warner Bros. from the 1950s through the 1970s. Wile E. uses every hare-brained scheme in the book to try and catch the Roadrunner (often with the help of outlandish products and weapons from the ACME Company), which always backfire on him. Most of the time, he ends up flying off the end of a cliff, hangs in mid-air long enough for a reaction shot, and then falls several thousand feet to make a "splat" on the desert floor below. He then always walks away and lives to pursue another day. It is this ability to survive what would appear to be non-survivable falls and impacts that would lead one to assume that the Deep Space Two mission was relying, to one degree or another, on the Wile E. Coyote theory of physics... -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
|
|
|
May 27 2005, 08:32 PM
Post
#10
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
QUOTE (Chmee @ May 27 2005, 02:51 PM) QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ May 27 2005, 03:30 PM) I beleive they both blew up Planet X when they each tried to claim it. Right? Actually, while no one has ever actually said it on the record, I think the MER teams were going to "informally" name MER-A Marvin and MER-B Duck Dodgers (or perhaps just Daffy), but that NASA's PR flacks got the idea it would be *so* much better to have some fifth-grader name them. In any event, there are indeed mission patches for each rover, with the MER-B patch featuring Daffy Duck as Duck Dodgers (in the twenty-fourth-and-a-halfth-century!) and the MER-A patch featuring Marvin the Martian. Here's a link with a decent view of both patches: MER mission patches I sort of wish they had used the cartoon names -- Spirit is an OK name, but Opportunity is just not a proper noun, and never will be. It's a terribly awkward name for a rover... -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
|
|
|
May 27 2005, 08:43 PM
Post
#11
|
|
Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14431 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
I thought they wanted to called them Divorce and Exhaustion
Doug |
|
|
May 29 2005, 05:19 AM
Post
#12
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1870 Joined: 20-February 05 Member No.: 174 |
I never read or saw that a report on the DS-2 penetrators was available. But they held a failure review investigation that was mostly ignored by the media. The conclusions was similar to Beagle: No "Smoking gun", unlike polar lander, but the vehicles had major deficiencies in design and testing and project management and were way not ready to fly.
Penetrators are useful and valuable, even if not "sexy". They're by far the best way to get seismometers where they're well coupled to the ground. The Viking 2 seismometer turned out to be an excellent wind guage, for example. Note that the Mars 96 Soviet/international mission carried 2 hard landers and 2 penetrators on the main spacecraft. All <sigh> lost. |
|
|
May 30 2005, 09:35 PM
Post
#13
|
|
Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10146 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
"I sort of wish they had used the cartoon names -- Spirit is an OK name, but Opportunity is just not a proper noun, and never will be. It's a terribly awkward name for a rover..." -the other Doug
It took me a long time to get used to the names Spirit and Opportunity. I guess I don't mind them now. But under the circumstances at the time I think we were lucky they weren't stuck with names like Freedom and Democracy. I actually proposed names for the DS2 penetrators... it was a competition like the MER one. Of course mine were not selected. Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
|
|
May 30 2005, 09:44 PM
Post
#14
|
|
Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14431 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
I entered that DS2 comp as well - with Romulus and Remus. Scott and Ammundson were good names though - I liked those.
Doug |
|
|
May 31 2005, 06:38 AM
Post
#15
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
I wasn't aware of the competition at the time, but in the spirit of Phobos and Deimos, I would have entered the names Fear and Loathing.
Not that I would expect NASA PAO to *ever* select those names... -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 19th April 2024 - 12:09 PM |
RULES AND GUIDELINES Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting. IMAGE COPYRIGHT |
OPINIONS AND MODERATION Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators. |
SUPPORT THE FORUM Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member. |