2014 MU69 "Ultima Thule" flyby, For discussion of the encounter as it happens Options

[nprev]

ADMIN NOTE: Since the encounter phase and frequent press briefings are nearly over we'll be starting a new thread to discuss the flyby results as they come in over the next 20 months, similar to what was done after Pluto.

This thread will be closed in the near future.

[Req]

Just to be clear, the only reason I asked the question in the first place is because during today's press conference, Alan said this:

"Yeah, we don't know that yet Ken. In order to get that, we're going to have to analyze the images that we have in a little bit more detail. But more importantly, we have to get down some engineering data that tells us about the pointing, and we have to get our next trajectory reconstruction of the first post-flyby, and to get all of those steps is going to require a couple of weeks of work after we get out of the solar conjunction that I was talking about, and at that point we will be able to calculate where in that long train of hundreds of images we will find Ultima, and then place commands in a command load for February to download only those that contain the targets." This answer seems to explicitly state that they will be doing this selection "in the loop" by Mike's above definition, regardless of the method that they use to identify the sequence numbers to grab first.

Thanks again Mike for the insight, I love learning about the details of MSL, or whatever. I really appreciate all of your responses.

I'm not trying to act like I know better, this team has my complete benefit of the doubt, I just want to learn why they didn't just write/QA some quite simple code(especially compared with the other things they have to write/QA for this mission) and then download 300-10,000 bits of data to know right now, so that they can augment their team planning, and as an extremely distant second, give a better answer to the easily predictable question that Alan answered above during their (second)15 minutes("You said you might not get the best images. Did you?")

[WTW]

Re. helping to observe and measure occultations by Kuiper Belt Objects:

A major omission from my previous links:

The RECON project:
http://tnorecon.net/about-us/about-the-project/

RECON is devoted to observing stellar occultations by "Trans-Neptunian Objects" (TNOs) -- i.e., bodies whose semi-major orbital axis is greater than the semi-major orbital radius of Neptune -- and which include the KBOs.

Here is a quote from their website:
RECON — the Research and Education Collaborative Occultation Network — will involve students, teachers, amateur astronomers, and interested community members in a citizen science astronomy research project to study the outer solar system. We are providing telescopes, camera equipment, and training to over 40 schools and education centers across the Western United States so students and teachers from these communities can help us determine the sizes of objects out past Neptune through occultation measurements. To learn more about RECON, visit http://tnorecon.net/

Funded by the National Science Foundation, RECON is run by planetary scientists Marc Buie from Southwest Research Institute and John Keller from California Polytechnic State University.

You can sign up to join their project or request more information at
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc...6b7X9g/viewform

[john_s]

A few points-

- One additional big reason why we can't get down the highest-resolution images earlier, is that they are stored on the second solid-state data recorder (SSR2), which we can only access when we power up the backup computer, Given our tight power budget and other complexities (e.g. additional housekeeping data are generated and need to be downlinked when the backup computer is is powered up), we have to wait a while to power up that computer again to get at the SSR2 data.

- The command loads, which each cover 2-3 weeks of spacecraft activities, are developed over a cycle that starts well over a month before execution. So to downlink jailbars and use the m to determine which images to send down wouldn't be any faster than what we're currently planning.

- Yes, we get down histograms for each LORRI image, but they are quantized in a way that means that a faint target like Ultima doesn't show up in the them, in the short exposures needed for our highest resolution images. So histograms don't tell us which images contain the target.

- Adding the capability to generate and downlink thumbnails, like any flight software change, would take months to develop and test to ensure it was bulletproof. Given our small team, it wouldn't be a good use of resources.

- Like Alan said, New Horizons is a mission of delayed gratification. Patience is a key requirement.

- The best illustration of the quality of the best images we hope to get is the Phobos-based simulation that I showed on NYE, which includes the actual expected smear and noise levels. The Manhattan image is hot intended to be a high-fidelity simulation.

John

[Guest_Steve5304_*]

any targets after Ultima Thule?

[nprev]

Thank very much, John, and congratulations!

[jasedm]

Second that - thanks John.

We're like a hoard of excitable kids who just want the party bag, with (for the most part) little conception of the effort and work involved in organising the party.

[pioneer]

- Like Alan said, New Horizons is a mission of delayed gratification. Patience is a key requirement.

I learned to be patient from the Galileo mission.

[ElkGroveDan]

A few points-....

John

Thanks for taking the time to weigh-in with us John during what must be the week of a lifetime for you. You guys and gals are amazing!

[JRehling]

Like Alan said, New Horizons is a mission of delayed gratification. Patience is a key requirement.

I always keep handy the January 1977 National Geographic issue that was my first major source of results the Viking mission, six months after Viking 1 landed. To paraphrase Bane, "I was born in patience, molded by it. I didn't see quick results until I was already a man."

Thanks enormously to the whole team and everyone involved!

[Guest_avisolo_*]

Thanks to the entire New Horizons team for this astonishing achievement!

As for the next target, my humble suggestion is: a photo of Earth, surpassing Sagan's Pale Blue Dot shot.

I understand that it entails a level of risk, but capturing such a prospect would be an inspiring legacy if you manage to pull it off. Our planetary survival challenges are very acute and near-term and we humans need all the inspiration we can get asap.

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[Explorer1]

I believe Alan said they will wait until they're sure they will not have any encounters before attempting this; apparently the Sun is still bright enough to damage LORRI in case of accidental pointing (for Voyager's portrait this was not an issue).

[HSchirmer]

I believe Alan said they will wait until they're sure they will not have any encounters before attempting this; apparently, the Sun is still bright enough to damage LORRI in case of accidental pointing (for Voyager's portrait this was not an issue).

I kinda-sorta got the feeling that NH team wants to hold that photo until the 2030s when their Cassini-RTG has nothing better to do.

Which reminds me, as to getting data down- has anybody floated any wild plans for "rose petal" 70 meter class double-dish DSN relay? Put a matched pair of 70 meter radio telescope out Saturn, Uranus or Neptune? Provides 70 meters looking out, 70 meters of data relay back towards earth.

[serpens]

I believe Alan said they will wait until they're sure they will not have any encounters before attempting this.......

Another encounter would be amazing.

[neo56]

Denoised version of the latest picture of Ultima Thule with starfield and cropped and colored version.