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Posted by: ngunn Nov 17 2014, 08:58 PM

The latest pancams show some interesting bumps on the far horizon as well as long 'swells' on the plain that might respond well to 'phil-o-vision'. Time for the 'Distant Vistas' team to resume work? I'm not going to attempt the first identifications as I have little idea what azimuths we're looking at. Also I don't know what visibility to expect with the current dust levels.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Nov 17 2014, 10:00 PM

By jingo - you're right... here's a stretched look at the western horizon. IDs will have to wait a bit.

Phil

Posted by: vikingmars Nov 18 2014, 12:26 AM

Thanks Phil and Ngunn : maybe we will be able to see also the distant rim of Bopolu crater on the western horizon when we reach the summit... (see Bopolu Crater herebelow : a Sol 2195 image)

Posted by: jamescanvin Nov 19 2014, 12:04 AM

Well I think it's likely that the central hazy feature is Bopolu.

Dusting off my 'inverse polar' analysis with my id's of a couple of more nearby craters.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Nov 19 2014, 12:55 AM

Good! And in addition, in the right foreground is a broad shallow depression visible in both pan and map.

Phil

Posted by: vikingmars Nov 19 2014, 12:18 PM

Thanks a lot, Damia ! How nice !

...and, Phil, jamescanvin and ngunn : -in theory- we would be able to discern from the very summit of Cape Tribulation a faint line lying on the north-western horizon showing Victoria Crater !
Herebelow as a reminder, Cape Tribulation as seen from the rim of Victoria Crater on Sol 986. Enjoy

Posted by: polaris Nov 19 2014, 03:08 PM

Well done, Olivier !

Posted by: jamescanvin Nov 19 2014, 04:09 PM

Indeed. And a few sols ago Oppy took some images looking that way! I have been anxiously waiting for them to come down...

Posted by: fredk Nov 19 2014, 04:45 PM

Sorry, Viking, I have to correct you! I know it's been a long time since Victoria, but from there we only saw what we called the "Twin Peaks" on the north rim of Endeavour, and what we called "Cook", the highest peak on the east rim (the one with the prominent crater below the peak). The peak you show in your attachment is "Cook". Check out James's identification from Victoria in http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=5503&view=findpost&p=127150

The first clear sighting of Tribulation I know of was on sol 1820 in http://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/1/p/1820/1P289760764EFF9993P2420L6M1.JPG Again see James's identification http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=5702&view=findpost&p=137799 That was near Cook Islands/Resolution, about 2 km south of Victoria.

It's still possible that Tribulation was technically visible from Victoria, but peeked only a couple of pixels above the horizon so wasn't discernable in pancam. In that case we would see the rim of Victoria from the summit of Tribulation. So it's definitely worth looking when we get there!

Posted by: climber Nov 19 2014, 06:19 PM

I guess you all remember how we used to see Victoria coming from Endurance? Yes, the BEACON!
Any chance we could see a cliff of Victoria acting as a beacon...if the MER team is ever to command Oppy to take a picture by early morning?

Posted by: marswiggle Nov 19 2014, 06:23 PM

Vikingmars. fredk, climber: I have something to add here, an enlarged (2x) and stretched (2x) crop of http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2006-09-26/1P212524999EFF76CNP2386L7M1.JPG sol 950 pancam, or rather the equivalent anaglyph, showing exactly those few pixels of Cape Tribulation and some peaks to the south of it.

I think this was the highest location where Cape Tribulation ever was visible at Victoria, and the image represents something like the topmost 10-15 m of the Endeavour rim peaks seen from ~18 km away. Conversely, the high craggy wall of Cape St. Mary facing us now could be just discernible from the summit as a mere sliver of the whole with 1-2 pix of vertical extent, unless the horizon comes between even worse than I imagine and/or the weather renders visibility too poor.

(Edited for style and to correct minor errors.)

Posted by: fredk Nov 19 2014, 08:38 PM

As amazing as it sounds, I'm pretty sure that that bump just peeking above the horizon in marswiggle's post is a piece of the rim of Iazu, rather than Tribulation. The sky was extremely clear at that time. And Iazu should actually look a bit higher than Tribulation from Victoria.

Compare the view from 1820 (upper part of my new pic below, from James's post), when we got our first clear view of Tribulation with the bump in marswiggle's post (lower part):

In the upper part, Tribulation's on the left and Iazu on the right. It's pretty clear that the shape of marswiggle's bump (small bit on left, larger part on right) doesn't match the shape of Tribulation (two bits, taller one on right). But marswiggle's bump matches the shape of the Iazu piece pretty well. A fainter piece of Iazu farther to the right might be visible as well.

Still, we were definitely close to seeing Tribulation, and with another metre in rover height may just see Victoria from the summit...

Posted by: marswiggle Nov 19 2014, 09:31 PM

Wow, fredk, never thought of that possibility. Another consideration, the azimuths from sol 950 location to the highest peaks of Endeavour / Iazu (using Google Mars) pretty much converge to each other, could they even be blended into one and the same blurred shape here? Admittedly, the shape in my previous post is largely similar to the Iazu outline, which does not exclude the possibility that Tribulation is 'shadowed' by the more distant rim.

Posted by: fredk Nov 19 2014, 10:43 PM

Yikes, you may be right. Here's the Duck Bay - Iazu line of sight, showing it does come very close to Tribulation:

Something always looked odd about marswiggle's bump. The part circled in black looks less hazy than the rest (presumably Iazu). Maybe that's the highest bit of Tribulation, which was much closer and so should look less hazy:

This could be better checked using the PDS and combining the various frames, if someone has time...

But if this is right, it would mean we'll definitely have a line of sight to Victoria from the summit!

Posted by: jamescanvin Nov 20 2014, 08:43 AM

That is pretty tantalizing - someone definitely needs to dig out and process the PDS data.

Posted by: charborob Dec 17 2014, 12:18 AM

I don't know if this has been noticed before. In the attached (enhanced) pancam image taken on sol 3873, there is a very faint hill. I tried to bring it out somewhat (noise removed, fiddled with curves in Photoshop). The direction is over the plains, to the right of Cape Tribulation. Could it be Bopolu crater? On the other hand, it doesn't seem wide enough for that.

Posted by: fredk Dec 17 2014, 01:30 AM

I've been eyeing that feature for several sols - notice how the view has improved since 3863: we have climbed substantially since then and can see much more of the feature:
http://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/1/p/3863/1P471125576EFFCJL1P2426R1M1.JPG
This is too far to the south to be Bopolu and has the wrong shape - here's an old view of Bopolu:

I've been meaning to check some azimuths but haven't had time. My too-many-years-staring-at-Mars-images intuition says it's the crater rim I've circled here:

But again, I'd need to do some measurements to be sure. Once we're closer to the summit we should see Iazu again and that'll fix things better. But if this is right, this is the farthest feature we've seen from Oppy - it's farther than Bopolu and the Miyamoto rim segment ("mule ears" we called it those years ago).

Posted by: ngunn Dec 17 2014, 11:05 AM

I've been watching that too and thinking it might be Miyamoto. I'd expect the 'mule ears' to be lined up to appear as one from where we are now. But I have no handle on the azimuths so that was a wild guess. It would be exciting to be seeing an even more distant feature but I'd find that surprising given the curvature of the planet. Might be worth checking the theoretical visibility with Google Earth Mars

Posted by: ngunn Dec 17 2014, 08:49 PM

A crude estimate from the pancams puts the main peak 40 to 45-ish degrees to the right of Tribulation summit which I think is about right for the combined 'Mule Ears'. Also I think there is a long low distant horizon feature well to the left in that same image. This could be the nearer hills we were originally looking for in that general direction when the 'Mule Ears' popped up instead.

Posted by: jamescanvin Dec 17 2014, 09:07 PM

Based on the Azimuth and size I think it is probably this:

Posted by: ngunn Dec 17 2014, 09:38 PM

Do you mean that is the main peak showing in the image charborob posted? That's the feature I thought might be the lower hills I referred to in my post just before yours. The trouble with those hills being the main peak visible in charborob's image is that if they were that big we should have seen them before when we first saw the 'Mule Ears'.

Posted by: jamescanvin Dec 17 2014, 10:20 PM

Yes I think that is the horizon feature charborob posted. Back in 2010 when we were looking at the 'Mule Ears' we didn't have a great view on that azimuth. It sits in a bit of a dip and we had a closeish horizon in that direction back then. Now it looks to be much more favourable. I don't think the azimuth is right to be the 'Mule Ears', if we got the ID right back in 2010 they should be about half a Pancam frame further to the right.

Posted by: ngunn Dec 17 2014, 10:36 PM

OK, thanks. I'm glad you're in on the hunt. If you're right we should have a great view of the Miyamoto rim just a bit to the right of what we see now. It's not much further away than than this feature. Maybe there is already something visible at the extreme right of the image. I've been scutinising that but everything darkens there so it's difficult to say. I hope you will have time to provide us with one of your wonderful reverse polar horizon analyses when we reach the summit.

Posted by: jamescanvin Dec 17 2014, 10:56 PM

Yeah really looking forward to the summit pan, that should nail things down. I wonder how good the view will be though. I don't think the visibility is all that great, else I we should be able to see more of Miyamoto right now.

Posted by: ngunn Jan 7 2015, 11:31 AM

Clear view forward: http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2015-01-07/1N473881179EFFCKDGP1870L0M1.JPG

Posted by: vikingmars Jan 7 2015, 02:46 PM

YES ! Incredible ! We are now standing at the very summit of Cape Tribulation !
Here is the view towards the south : we are indeed standing at the topmost point.
I could not imagine such a feat in 2004 for the Opportunity mission in my wildest dreams...
CONGRATULATIONS to the MER team !

Posted by: James Sorenson Jan 7 2015, 03:25 PM

My take on this breathtaking and monumental vista. A truly wonderful achievement for the whole MER team.


https://flic.kr/p/qHuyU5

Polar:
https://flic.kr/p/qHuzDm

1920x1080 Desktop Background
https://flic.kr/p/qqZFT5

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jan 7 2015, 04:09 PM

Stunning!

This is James's panorama in circular format.

Phil

Posted by: tedstryk Jan 7 2015, 04:52 PM

Wow oh wow! I never thought I'd see Oppy become a mountain climber!

Posted by: djellison Jan 7 2015, 04:59 PM

And for the past month or so - without the use of flash memory.

Extraordinary.

Posted by: Explorer1 Jan 7 2015, 05:17 PM

Congrats to the team! 11 years after landing; well deserved.

Presumably there will be a short stay to make a big panorama?

Posted by: climber Jan 7 2015, 06:12 PM

Hi climber!(From climber)

Posted by: fredk Jan 7 2015, 06:34 PM

That's right, according to the new http://www.planetary.org/explore/space-topics/space-missions/mer-updates/2014/12-mer-update-11th-anniversary-look-back-on-2014.html

Huge congratulations to the team. What a way to celebrate 11 years!

With the opening up of the view to the south, we now have our first good look at Iazu in a long time:

Posted by: polaris Jan 7 2015, 07:23 PM

Hi Climber (from Paris) !

Posted by: vikingmars Jan 7 2015, 09:04 PM

Hi Climber (from Meudon) !

Posted by: Astro0 Jan 7 2015, 10:15 PM

If this isn't today's newspaper headline somewhere, then I'll be disappointed

Nod to James for his summit image.

Posted by: fredk Jan 7 2015, 11:37 PM

Ha! But maybe considering the translation from 11 human years to "rover years", and Oppy's condition, the story would read:

115 year old lady, deaf and suffering from arthritis and dementia, reaches summit walking backwards.

Posted by: Explorer1 Jan 8 2015, 12:03 AM

Deaf how? The antennas are working just fine! Maybe the old girls' senses of smell and taste have declined (her spectrometers), but those eyes are as sharp as ever...
Sense of touch too is fine too; the RAT drill is still usable, right?

Posted by: fredk Jan 8 2015, 02:11 AM

I guess the analogy strains when pushed a bit too far. But the important point is that it's absolutely incredible that the fiesty old "lady" has made it this far!

Posted by: tanjent Jan 8 2015, 09:35 AM

Go, Granny, go!

Posted by: serpens Jan 8 2015, 10:58 PM

I have to tip my hat to A.J.S Rayl. Her update/summary is, as always, outstanding.

The snippets on Pinnacle Island were particularly interesting, correlated to the identification of other oxygenated material in fractures, with sulphur also evident. I believe that we could assume a dearth of atmospheric oxygen combined with the high probability that alteration took place underground and has subsequently been exposed by erosion. A strong oxidant (hydrogen peroxide) can result from the reaction of anoxic water with iron sulphide (pyrite). For ground water induced alteration this seems a more likely path than photolysis.

Posted by: James Sorenson Jan 9 2015, 12:27 AM

The 360 color Pancam Cape Tribulation pan has begun.

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2015-01-08/

Posted by: fredk Jan 9 2015, 12:54 AM

And it's going to be epic...
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2015-01-08/1P473962313EFFCKE1P2443R2M1.JPG?sol3895

Posted by: James Sorenson Jan 9 2015, 01:37 AM

To help me keep track, I'm going to be personally using Phil's projection of my Navcam summit pan to highlight what is roughly down sofar.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jan 9 2015, 01:58 AM

For years now we have been wondering if Victoria crater would be visible from Endeavour. Well, it's too bad about the dusty sky, but if it's ever going to be visible, it will be in this pan. Look for a narrow strip along the horizon ridge. In images taken in the afternoon, the visible far rim (under Cape St. Mary) would be shadowed, so the crater should probably look dark if we see it at all.

Phil

Posted by: James Sorenson Jan 9 2015, 08:43 AM

Still some work left to be done on this segment, but here is a screenshot of the pan sofar.

https://flic.kr/p/qGtvSA

Posted by: vikingmars Jan 9 2015, 09:32 AM

WOW ! Thanks a lot James to share this excellent work of yours with us

Posted by: SFJCody Jan 9 2015, 10:09 AM

Hmm, do I want the tau to improve over the next few sols so that we can see distant hills more clearly, or do I want it to stay the same so that all the pieces of the summit panorama will be taken under similar lighting conditions?

Posted by: vikingmars Jan 9 2015, 02:31 PM

Good question SFJCody !
On my side, I vote for the Tau improvement to see more details in the far distance, because I can play with the contrast (i.e. reduce it) in my image processing

Posted by: serpens Jan 9 2015, 09:34 PM

Well Spirit held the mountain climbing height record for a good while, but Opportunity has eclipsed that too.

Posted by: ngunn Jan 9 2015, 10:00 PM

I'm interested in knowing the elevation we are at here. It's difficult to get actual figures. Larry Crumpler's excellent contour maps have no numbers on them (or am I wrong?). We were quite high around Concepcion crater. How high are we now relative to that point? It seems to me we descended a long way before climbing this hill.

Posted by: serpens Jan 10 2015, 01:56 AM

Emily did a blog entry on MOLA tracks back in August 2010 and Conception is recorded as having an elevation of -1372m relative to Mars datum. Cape Tribulation has an elevation of -1380m so at the top of the mound near Conception Opportunity was a smidgeon higher than she is now. But relative to the approach to Cape Tribulation Opportunity climbed around 135 metres. Spirit climbed around 107 metres above the landing site but only some 82 metres above the base of Husband Hill.

Posted by: ngunn Jan 10 2015, 07:30 AM

Thanks serpens, that's very helpful for making sense of what we see on the far horizon. I was surprised to find the opposite stated in A.J.S. Rayl's article. (I know - a bit of a nitpick as there's only a few metres involved.)

Posted by: SFJCody Jan 10 2015, 12:04 PM

I imagine this is the highest elevation she'll ever drive to.

Unless of course they manage to get down to the northern rim of Iazu.

A marathon is all very well, but achieving 100X the mission success drive goal would be something else!

Posted by: serpens Jan 10 2015, 01:33 PM

Larry Crumpler's field report of 12 December had the summit as -1380. But his latest has it marked as -1390. As you say only a few metres, and either a typo or it is possible that in the first instance the elevation against Cape Tribulation actually referred to the elevation of the rover at that time, below the peak.

Posted by: ngunn Jan 10 2015, 03:27 PM

If -1380 was the rover elevation, not the summit, in Crumpler's previous post then maybe the summit is at -1370, not -1390 (easy to go 10m the wrong way when counting backwards). That would make Rayl's statement correct, by a margin of 2m! It's silly really but now I've started to query it I would like to find out for sure.

Posted by: James Sorenson Jan 11 2015, 10:13 AM

Another segment, another screenshot preview. This is the false color view.


https://flic.kr/p/qtLSuT

Posted by: fredk Jan 13 2015, 05:22 PM

Gasp!
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2015-01-13/1P474410193EFFCKE1P2444R2M1.JPG?sol3900
No Phil-o-vision required!

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jan 13 2015, 08:02 PM

Wowsers! Finally I'm superfluous and can go back to my real love, knitting.

Very faintly visible above the ejecta of Iazu (right of centre) is a more distant ridge. It must be part of the rim of the un-named crater south of Iazu.

Phil

Posted by: ngunn Jan 13 2015, 10:02 PM

Good spot Phil. (I was looking at that very same area and couldn't figure it out.) Although these images will undoubtedly contribute to the complete panorama they also look like drive direction shots so presumably someone is already planning the next move.

While we're still on the top can I reiterate an earlier question: What is the elevation of this summit relative to Mars datum? Is it -1370, -1380 or -1390 metres . . or something else? Recent blog posts by Larry Crumpler and A.J.S. Rayl seem to give conflicting information. Somebody here must know definitively.

Posted by: atomoid Jan 13 2015, 11:11 PM

http://www.midnightplanets.com/web/MERB/image/03900/1P474410193EFFCKE1P2444R2M1.html pan segment anaglyph

Posted by: fredk Jan 15 2015, 04:01 AM

Remember that the MOLA samples are quite sparse. http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2010/2638.html shows that there are only a few samples very close to Oppy's route. (See also http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=6438&st=630&p=163590&#entry163590) So we can't be very sure what the highest elevation we reached was. Given the uncertainty about our current elevation, I think we can only say that we're within 20 m or so of our highest point.

From http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/dtm/dtm.php?ID=ESP_018701_1775 you can only crudely read our elevation, but you might be able to get something more quantitative from some of the other images there.

Pgrindrod did some elevation maps a while back; http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=6788&st=180&p=166836&#entry166836 gives a good overall view of how we dropped from Victoria and then climbed back up.

Posted by: ngunn Jan 15 2015, 10:00 AM

Just to be absolutely sure I emailed Larry Crumpler and he confirmed that -1380 figure for the summit.

Posted by: vikingmars Jan 15 2015, 10:34 AM

Thanks a lot ngunn.
Please, tell me if I'm wrong, but I recorded that the altitude of Opportunity's landing site is -1387m.
It means that with the -1380m figure we are now just sitting slightly above the landing site, knowing that we have travelled down a slope to reach Endeavour crater...

Posted by: pgrindrod Jan 15 2015, 06:14 PM

A local contour map from the HiRISE DTM fredk linked to. Values look good to me!

And a context map too.

Posted by: charborob Jan 15 2015, 06:30 PM

Here's another PanCam view of the distant hill in a somewhat South-West direction. This time with 2x Phil-o-vision:

Posted by: ngunn Jan 15 2015, 07:39 PM

Yes and the latest NAVCAM of your hill (dead centre here) shows another smaller but clearer feature about 15 degrees farther to the right plus a possible faint hint of the Miyamoto rim extending between the two.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2015-01-15/1N474591710EFFCKGKP0704L0M1.JPG

And thanks pgrindrod for those excellent, very readable contour maps. They're exactly what we need and I'm delighted you're still with us on this forum.

Posted by: ngunn Jan 15 2015, 11:52 PM

A Request: Can we please have some 'mystery men' stationed along the rim southward?

Posted by: ngunn Jan 16 2015, 09:46 AM

Here is a great boon for distant horizon watchers. Larry Crumpler's latest field report for 15th Jan includes a navcam panorama with an azimuth scale. The central image in the panorama is the one I linked to two posts up. This should nail the IDs of the horizon features.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=larry%20crumpler%20field%20reports&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnmnaturalhistory.org%2Frover-field-reports-from-mars.html&ei=Ktu4VLCXIIr_Uo6ggdgH&usg=AFQjCNGq1ExTttHmVEHBq4ufRcwvu6QELA&bvm=bv.83829542,d.d24

EDIT: Apologies for the messy link. Maybe someone can replace it with a better one?

My first rough estimates for the azimuths: charborob's hill 197, possible Miyamoto rim 205, smaller closer (around 32km) hill 210. James Canvin will tell us whether this makes any sense I'm sure.

Posted by: jvandriel Jan 16 2015, 03:38 PM

The Navcam view on Sol 3900.

Jan van Driel

Posted by: jvandriel Jan 16 2015, 03:56 PM

and the view on Sol 3902.

Jan van Driel

Posted by: vikingmars Jan 16 2015, 04:11 PM

Thanks a lot jvandriel The view is one of the most beautiful ever seen on Mars !
I'd love so much roving for miles, and miles and miles on the Endeavour crater rim crest...

Posted by: James Sorenson Jan 17 2015, 04:35 AM

The Summit of Cape Tribulation!

https://flic.kr/p/qQbuWT

Gigapan:
http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/167859

Posted by: eoincampbell Jan 17 2015, 05:59 AM

Thank you James, just ... WOW!

Posted by: vikingmars Jan 17 2015, 09:13 PM

Thank you so much James : what a nice work !

Posted by: PDP8E Jan 18 2015, 03:38 AM

James, your work is incredible! Thank you for sharing your skills!

Posted by: Ron Hobbs Jan 18 2015, 05:04 AM

OMG!

I am glad I have lived to see a view like this from Mars.

Thank you, James.

Posted by: Floyd Jan 18 2015, 03:32 PM

James, fantastic work. I assume this is 2/3 of a 360 degree view? Or is this the essentially complete pan?

Posted by: fredk Jan 18 2015, 04:02 PM

I think that's got to be the whole pan, since we're not using flash at the moment so whatever's down now is all we're getting. The http://mars.nasa.gov/mer/mission/status_opportunityAll.html#sol3895 says "The project plans to implement the masking after an independent review is held later this week."

But wow, what a view!

Posted by: James Sorenson Jan 18 2015, 08:55 PM

Thank you everyone for the comments on it.

On Sol 3902 we drove about 20 meters, so I took it at that point the pan was done so I then wrapped it up. The latest update also says that it was going to be a 360, so for what ever reason I'm assuming they terminated it early. My guess is a mix of ants in their pants to drive and get a better view of Marithon Valley and the preparation for masking off the flash. I was secretly hoping for a 360 pan with the possibility of a rover deck pan. But we can't always get what we want I guess....it's a wonderful view regardless.

Posted by: vikingmars Jan 19 2015, 08:10 AM

While driving on the crest Oppy will be still high above the plains : they can image the missing horizon with PanCam L2/L5/L7, so that we can have a 360° pan for the far features...

Posted by: James Sorenson Jan 23 2015, 06:39 AM

Boy did I bite the dust! It had not occurred to me that the image of the RAT was part of the summit pan.I was looking for that missing pointing.... http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/spaceimages/details.php?id=pia19109

Posted by: fredk Jan 24 2015, 03:39 PM

Just when we're discussing elevations, the latest http://mars.nasa.gov/mer/mission/tm-opportunity/opportunity-sol3908.html includes an excellent elevation contour overlay! (And gives the summit height to the mm: -1379.857 m! )

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jan 24 2015, 06:46 PM

Great map! Here are a couple of Navcam horizon sections from sol 3909 - with a considerable vertical stretch - st show the distant features. I think the sky is clearing a bit, but there's a long way to go.

Phil

Posted by: ngunn Jan 24 2015, 10:16 PM

Thanks fredk for the link to the map, and thanks to the professionals who produced it and made it available. It's exactly what we need. Phil - can you provide a context (or azimuths) for those horizon views? I've been looking hard at one part of the the horizon but I can't locate it in your images.

Posted by: ngunn Jan 26 2015, 06:58 AM

Finally, a pancam view in the right direction . . I think that's Miyamoto on the left, big and very faint with a smaller hill in front of it.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2015-01-25/1P475483468EFFCLBXP2351R1M1.JPG

Posted by: MarsInMyLifetime Jan 26 2015, 06:24 PM

Phil's stretched images reminded me of something. While Opportunity is near its current "mountaintop" location in dusty conditions, is it possible that at sundown it could image the mountain-shadow phenomenon that visitors to the top of Mauna Loa often can see?
http://darkerview.com/wordpress/?p=8766
The physics being the same on both worlds, I suspect that it could, since the "point" is more of a trick of perspective and viewpoint than of the steepness of the slopes. But perhaps the altitude is not enough to obtain that perspective.

Posted by: ngunn Jan 26 2015, 09:06 PM

I've had a crude go at tweaking brightness and contrast to bring out the outline of Miyamoto.

Posted by: djellison Jan 26 2015, 10:44 PM

http://pancam.astro.cornell.edu/pancam_instrument/2847B_P2445.html

Doing anything in color much beyond that time will be hard as fringing between filters will dominate the effect. Navcam might be able to pull something off.

Posted by: craigmcg Feb 1 2015, 07:47 PM

Just curious. Marathon Valley has been a key objective for years and now it's potentially a few days drive away. Are there any other targets of comparable interest within a few months drive? Curious about the next big goal and the overall mission strategy after this.

<edit: sorry this is probably not the place for this discussion, but I am not seeing an obvious way to delete it>

ADMIN: No need to delete, we just moved it from the 'map' thread to here.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 1 2015, 09:02 PM

Iazu crater has been talked about as a future destination for a while, despite being ridiculously far away (you know, like Endeavour was when we were at Victoria).

So it's interesting to see this at LPSC:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/2548.pdf

Nowhere does it say specifically that it's a future destination. But a co-author is Ray Arvidson. So maybe this will be the next goal. It would be several years away.

Phil

Posted by: craigmcg Feb 1 2015, 09:44 PM

Thanks Phil for that reference. The image on the second page is spectacular.

There is something to be said for driving Opportunity until she fails just to see how far she can go for engineering reasons. I would never bet against her at this point.

Part of my question is really about the value of other parts of Endeavor vs. Marathon Valley. Is there any other destination in Endeavor that has major incremental value after Marathon?

Posted by: vikingmars Feb 2 2015, 10:21 AM

Good question Craigmcg.
Lots of interesting minerals were identified from orbit along the rim of Endeavour's (see the 3 illustrations herebelow).
So... My gess is that, after the study of Marathon Valley (that will take 1 Earth year at least), we will rove again, following the rim of Endeavour Crater...
And this treck will make us going closer and closer to Iazu crater.
When we reach Point Hicks (maybe in 2017, who knows ?) and if the rover is still in good health (with many, many technical "ifs"), then we could start our ~12-km traverse on the Meridfiani plain to reach the northmost point of Iazu ejecta that overlooks the Meridiani plains (see the 3rd ansd 4th illustrations : it looks like the Cotentin Peninsula in Normandy, a well-known place by our American, Canadian and British friends who fought the Battle of Normandy in World War II).
Marathon Valley is located midway between Victoria Crater and Iazu's cape. Well... there is still a loooong way to go before reaching Iazu crater !
But we have the big chance on our lives to be witnesses of all those exploration feats : maybe we'll see it up close and as we say, "Where there's life, there's hope" !

(... and as a tribute also to those who died to save our freedom)

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 2 2015, 07:34 PM

On the other hand....
https://twitter.com/CaseyDreier/status/562330771935883264

On page PS-43 of the budget released today (173 in the PDF):

Posted by: James Sorenson Feb 2 2015, 07:58 PM

Not again!

Picking on the little one is not nice!

Posted by: brellis Feb 2 2015, 09:34 PM

Noooo!

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 2 2015, 09:50 PM

Planetary Society's Casey Drier says this is actually routine; happened last year, but was fought over, so not a big worry yet.

If it ends up being a choice between Odyssey and Oppy, well....that's going to be a tough one.

Posted by: stevesliva Feb 3 2015, 01:32 AM

One of these days I have to add a few things to the "Antisolar point" article at wikipedia, because this, along with "Glory" and Brocken spectre and sunbow and everything else that shows up needs some sort of master list.

Posted by: ngunn Feb 4 2015, 07:58 PM

Another glimpse of Miyamoto from sol 3921:

It's actually visible at the far right of Jan's latest Pancam panorama. (Not everyone's priority I know, but it's a lonely mountain on Mars and somebody has to love it.) I'm hopeful that as we descend towards the next crater target we may at last get a pancam view of Bopolu to 'complete the set' of distant features visible from Cape Tribulation.

Posted by: vjkane Feb 6 2015, 12:50 AM

I have this vague recollection that Odyssey is expected to run out of fuel sometime in the next couple of years. Does anyone here know for sure?

Same thing for LRO (which is also proposed for termination by September)?

MRO is projected to be funded (and presumably operating) through 2020, so it apparently has a good fuel supply.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 6 2015, 01:15 AM

LRO at least is good for 7 or 8 years - I know nothing about Odyssey.

Phil

Posted by: vikingmars Feb 11 2015, 10:35 AM

Thanks Ngunn.
When you process a little bit, here is the viewing interpretation to the hills at center :
- the small (and darker) hills in front of Myamoto's ejecta are 60 km away from us ;
- the main hills behind (that are barely visible in unprocessed data) are part of the far extensions of Myamoto's ejecta and are 85 km from us...

Dear Phil (our Cartographer-in-Chief), any more comments ?

Posted by: ngunn Feb 11 2015, 11:38 AM

That's an amazingly clear version - a big thanks for posting it. What did you do? Stack a load of images? Whatever it was I think it would be worth trying on the Navcams too. Miyamoto is just perceptible in some of those, and of course they extend farther west to include Bopolu also.

For Bopolu I think we may soon be able to do long baseline 3D with the other 'eye' at Concepcion.

Posted by: vikingmars Feb 11 2015, 11:53 AM

Thanks a lot Ngunn. Have you seen Bopolu in recent images ? I thought it was not to be easily visible from our vantage point. I remember that it rose quickly above the horizon and popped out Sol 2178 to be best seen on Sol 2195. But when we started our trek towards the east, it disappeared very quickly also...

Posted by: ngunn Feb 11 2015, 12:13 PM

I think so. Isn't that it on the left here, for example? http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2015-01-25/1N475485427EFFCLBXP1828R0M1.JPG

Posted by: vikingmars Feb 11 2015, 12:44 PM

Yes indeed ! Thanks a lot Ngunn, you spotted it !
Here below, please find a quick processing with a comparison with Sol 2195 image (top) showing Bopolu crater

Posted by: ngunn Feb 11 2015, 01:31 PM

Nice work. I think it's also visible on the right in these images from yesterday which extend over to Miyamoto too. http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2015-02-09/1N476726083EFFCLUBP0705R0M1.JPG

Posted by: vikingmars Feb 11 2015, 01:33 PM

Yes this is it ! Thanks a lot Ngunn

Posted by: elakdawalla Feb 11 2015, 04:26 PM

As of 2013: Conservative use of Odyssey's remaining fuel should allow it to maintain operations until around 2020. However, one of its four reaction wheels failed in 2012. If a second reaction wheel fails, it will have to transition to thruster-only attitude control, which will burn fuel at a much more rapid rate, resulting in a remaining mission lifetime of 1 to 3 years.

Posted by: ngunn Feb 11 2015, 07:40 PM

There's another faint feature visible at the extreme left here (left of charborob's hill) - http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2015-02-11/1P476821257EFFCLUBP2361R2M1.JPG

I think that's likely to be the ridge that ends under the t of Miyamoto in the colour map in post 17 - http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7934&view=findpost&p=216406 Charborob's hill is in James Canvin's red circle there.

Posted by: ngunn Feb 12 2015, 10:23 PM

An attempt at bringing out the faint feature noted in previous post:

Posted by: stevesliva Feb 12 2015, 11:13 PM

The discussion of Opportunity in 2016 got me wondering when winter is, and it looks like it's the final two months of 2015 and first four of 2016, according to the nice timeline by moreInput here:
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=3705&pid=217352&st=320&#entry217352

I was wondering about finding a haven if necessary, and Doppler Radio campaigns perhaps scrounging up some funds for the year.

Posted by: monty python Feb 13 2015, 03:55 AM

Doesn't marathon valley run more or less east west, so if it stayed on one side of the valley you would get a good winter tilt?

Posted by: vikingmars Feb 13 2015, 09:47 AM

WOW ! Thanks a lot Ngunn : how nice !

Posted by: ngunn Feb 16 2015, 10:39 PM

Now that we have such good views to the SSW here is a link back to the orbital images of Miyamoto rim and surrounding area originally posted by Doug (and isn't it great that those links still work, unlike so many from a few years ago): http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=6438&view=findpost&p=157420

You can see charborob's hill there, among the rest. I'm still not exactly sure where the 'Mule Ears' are located in the orbital images, nor if they are identical with the two highest peaks of Miyamoto visible now, though that seems pretty likely. Whether or not we are treated to a pancam view of Bopolu on the way, we will surely lose the distant horizon soon as the geologists get down to business with the smectites in the valley.

Posted by: ngunn Feb 28 2015, 10:42 PM

There are some interesting features out across the plains here. I haven't checked the azimuths but I'm wondering if this is our best view so far of the Victoria-twin crater off to our southwest: http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2015-02-28/1P478402348EFFCLZEP2372L2M1.JPG

Also there's something on the horizon there, possibly Bopolu.

Posted by: ngunn Mar 2 2015, 09:51 AM

Definitely Bopolu. I'm looking on a different monitor this morning and it shows up very clearly on this L7.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2015-02-28/1P478402622EFFCLZEP2372L7M1.JPG
It has a longer 'tail' extending off to the left than I was expecting.

Posted by: ngunn Mar 6 2015, 09:42 AM

Bopolu again, though still not the rightmost part: http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2015-03-05/1P478848181EFFCM29P2374L2M1.JPG

Here is a list (left to right) of all the distant features visible from Cape Tribulation. I hope it's complete, if not please add. (I will insert some relevant post numbers from this thread as edits.)

1/ Iazu, including the prominent northern bluff, nice phil-o-vision from fredk in post 33
2/ Crater south of Iazu, noted by Phil Stooke, post 59
3/ 't-ridge' left of charborob's hill, posts 110/111
4/ 'charborob's hill', noted by charborob and identified by James Canvin, posts 16 and 20
5/ Miyamoto rim, with two nearer hills in front, post 102 for the clearest view - also includes features 4 and 6
6/ Another nearer hill a few degrees to the right of Miyamoto
7/ Bopolu, with 'Victoria-twin' crater in front, posts 4 and 117
8/ '500m crater at 14Km' identified by James Canvin, post 4

We have had clear Pancam views of all of these features except for the left end of 3 (terrain obstruction) and the right end of 7 (no imaging yet).

I still hope that James will do another of his excellent reverse polar views showing all this.

Posted by: jamescanvin Mar 7 2015, 10:34 PM

It's on my list of things to looks at (along with a near infinite number of other things!)

Posted by: ngunn Mar 10 2015, 08:59 AM

Well, I don't know why these full and part frame views were acquired but it almost seems that someone wanted to complete the distant horizon survey. Here is Bopolu complete to it's rightmost flank:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2015-03-09/1P479207910EFFCM29P2377L7M1.JPG

And this looks very much like the '500m crater at 14 km':
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2015-03-09/1P479207678ESFCM29P2377L7M1.JPG

Quote James - 'It's on my list of things' - we can ask no more. (It's hardly urgent.)

Posted by: ngunn Mar 30 2015, 10:43 AM

Here is Larry Crumpler's oblique view of the future with distant features 1-7 from post 118 annotated in red:

Posted by: vikingmars Mar 31 2017, 01:41 PM

Some distant features can be seen again in the latest Opportunity Sol 4686 images
I think that we see a glimpse of Iazu at left and the protruding hills from Miyamoto Crater at right.
https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/1/p/4686/1P544193105EFFCXGTP2387L2M1.JPG
Here below are two quick processings :
1) A first process :

2) And, if you look very, very carefully on the picture hereabove we can barely see around the Myamoto hills a ghostly higher feature much farther away from the crater itself.
Here is a second processing (as a strip picture showing the horizon only) :

But, maybe that our Cartographer-in-Chief, Phil Stooke, has a clearer (and wiser) view

Posted by: ngunn Mar 31 2017, 02:36 PM

Yes, I noted the visibility of 'charborob's hill' (my feature 4) here: http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=8237&view=findpost&p=235123

But now since you are finding more, and while we are still just about on Cape Tribulation, it's a good idea to revisit this thread. I don't have a good grasp of what is what among the fainter features yet. Some of them may look different from this lower and more southerly location compared with the views from near the summit.

Posted by: vikingmars Mar 31 2017, 03:06 PM

Good idea ! Thanks ngunn

Posted by: fredk Mar 31 2017, 03:44 PM

I'm not sure about the other bumps but that's definitely not Iazu. We've had a good view of Iazu for a while now, and it's more to the S-SSE (left of that frame). You can see Iazu start to come into view on the far left horizon in this frame:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2017-03-30/1P544193389EFFCXGTP2387R2M1.JPG?sol4686
And more of Iazu is at the horizon in this view:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2017-03-30/1P544193529EFFCXGTP2387R2M1.JPG?sol4686

Posted by: Phil Stooke Mar 31 2017, 07:23 PM

A quick look suggests these identifications. I don't have time to look more closely right now.

Phil

Posted by: ngunn Mar 31 2017, 07:47 PM

Agreed. Compare posts 99 and 102, this thread.

Posted by: vikingmars Apr 1 2017, 04:29 PM

Thanks a lot Phil for your expertise