Erebus/victoria Entry & Exploration, Would it be worth it? Options

[odave]

Last year, MER team decided to let Oppy go into Endurance because the value of the potential science gain outweighed the risks to the rover at that time. I remember Steve Squyres saying something like...if Oppy can't get back out, it would be like getting locked in a candy store.

I wonder if the same would be true when we get to Erebus and Victoria. If these craters show something significantly different than we've already seen, and there's a feasible entry/exit route, would they still risk sending Oppy in?

If it were me, given the 18 month extended mission and the rover showing its age more and more, any target in Erebus or Victora would need to be very juicy. Then again, there's no guarantee that Oppy will live for the entire extension.

Hmmm...depending on what we find when we get there, it could be a hard decision for the team to make!

[dot.dk]

First of all I don't think you can go into Erebus, it's looks like just a rim of very old crater that has been filled up.

About risking sending Oppy into Victoria it will depend on if there is other targets in the near vicinity that Oppy has a chance of reaching.

[CosmicRocker]

From the orbiter images, it appears they would not want to venture toward the middle of Erubis, but there is little reason to do so. I am guessing this large, eroded crater will have many places where Opportunity can venture across the rim with little risk.

[wyogold]

I say go in Victoria if there is good science there. I doubt there would be much left in oppry by the time she reaches that crater. I hope i'm wrong but its a very harsh place.

scott

[chokai]

I say go in Victoria if there is good science there. I doubt there would be much left in oppry by the time she reaches that crater. I hope i'm wrong but its a very harsh place.

scott

If Victoria craters' inclines are anything like Endurance I suspect that any trip in would be a one way trip. With the front wheel being gimpy still (as far as we know) they will be a little more limitted in what they can do to combat any slippage. They can still get some help from it of course, but it will hardly be optimal.

Besides the orbital shots I've seen of Victoria seem to hint at a larger amount of exposed rock around the crater rim and immediately inside it than at endurance, it may mean we will be unable to enter in the first place.

[AndyG]

If Victoria craters' inclines are anything like Endurance I suspect that any trip in would be a one way trip.  With the front wheel being gimpy still (as far as we know) they will be a little more limitted in what they can do to combat any slippage.  They can still get some help from it of course, but it will hardly be optimal.

Besides the orbital shots I've seen of Victoria seem to hint at a larger amount of exposed rock around the crater rim and immediately inside it than at endurance, it may mean we will be unable to enter in the first place.

Agreed on the surrounding terrain. However, assuming that can be crossed, http://www.thirteenthcentury.com/victoria.jpg highlights one area ("B") where there may be an even more gentle slope in than the average for this crater. Even if access to the bottom isn't possible (and the 60m-wide dunes might be too intimidating to make it "worth it") there looks like places where exposed rock in the rim could be well worth investigating from high up the sides of Victoria.

Personally, if Opportunity croaks around about here, and all I get to see are panoramas of Victoria over the next few months, I'll be happy.

Andy G

[djellison]

Yup - down the entry ramp at B would make sense to me - I'll try and fudge a 3d image of what I think it may be a bit like - but I wouldnt go much further in that that - as that would be death wish.

Doug

[TheChemist]

My impression from the Victoria image is that even going from A to B might be downslope, and if the terrain is just sand ..... I don't know.
I do not want to be pessimistic, but I think going inside Victoria is out of the question.
Even just panoramas though (From A or around the rim) will be breathtaking

[djellison]

If they were prepared to enter Endurance with no g'tee of getting out - I think the same would be very much true of Victoria - especially if MiniTES is actually dead by that stage.

Doug

[babakm]

A is the entry point. B & C are bounce marks as Oppy comes to rest (D) wheel-side up on the crater floor.

[ilbasso]

For me, the question is: given Oppy's age and gimpiness, if you didn't go into Victoria, then what else could you do of equal science value for the rest of the rover's lifetime?

You couldn't assume that you could go very far in any one direction before a breakdown. Do you just set off in a direction that has interesting looking stuff along the way (the "enjoy the journey" philosophy), or do you aim for another distant landmark (the "go for the goal" philosophy)?

Which way would you go?

[djellison]

A lap around Victoria? That would be something like 2.5km on its own

Doug

[AndyG]

For me, the question is: given Oppy's age and gimpiness, if you didn't go into Victoria, then what else could you do of equal science value for the rest of the rover's lifetime? 

You couldn't assume that you could go very far in any one direction before a breakdown.  Do you just set off in a direction that has interesting looking stuff along the way (the "enjoy the journey" philosophy), or do you aim for another distant landmark (the "go for the goal" philosophy)?

Which way would you go?

Assuming we're talking about an immobile rover (a "nover"? ;-) ) then what could be better than a final position high on the rim of Victoria, taking wide angle pancam shots that could be stuck together to make an animated day?

Forget the science at the end of the science mission, just inspire the public that Mars is not just some reddish dot in the sky, often lost in streetlamp glare, that it's not just a sink-hole for billions of dollars; but that it's a real place with 24-hour days, one we can (and should) walk on, a place of breathtaking vistas and beautiful real estate...

Hmmm...I'd go tomorrow. :-D

Andy G

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

A little more info from Steve Squyres: http://athena1.cornell.edu/news/mubss/

April 18, 2005

We're starting to plan our attack on Erebus crater. It's complicated a little bit by the fact that Erebus is actually nested inside an even larger crater that we've named Terra Nova. Terra Nova is very old and subdued in its topography, so it probably doesn't expose a lot of stratigraphy. The current plan is that we'll hit Erebus somewhere along its northern rim, take a big panorama, and then decide what to do in detail... similar to what we did when we first arrived at Endurance crater. It'd be nice to plan it in detail now, but we simply need to learn more before we can do that.

[edstrick]

Looking at the highest resolution MOC pic<s> of Victoria Crater, I do not think there is any possibility of exploring the deep interior of the crater. It appears to mostly be sand sheets and dunes.

However, what's worth exploring is the stratigraphic record and geology of the sulfate rocks exposed in the upper walls of the crater. I'm not at all sure there's much more exposed than in Endurance, but I think they can go a ways down in to that "access ramp" notch on the north west side of Victoria and poke around there for quite a bit without getting into the steep part of the crater slopes or the sand trap.

The other thing they can do is go to one side of notches and take systematic color and MiniTES <if it's working> data on rocks exposed on the other sides of the notches.