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Posted by: Sunspot Jan 16 2010, 01:15 AM

From Twitter

HiRISE
Stay tuned, HiFans, we'll be making a BIG ANNOUNCEMENT next Wednesday...! :-o

Hmmm... is it literally something BIG, or maybe they found MPL?

Posted by: elakdawalla Jan 16 2010, 02:05 AM

Terrible teases, aren't they? What a way to drive us nuts. Frankly, given this tease, if they don't announce they've definitively found MPL or Beagle 2 or evidence that Phoenix tried to walk south for the winter (kidding) I'll feel disappointed!

Posted by: lyford Jan 16 2010, 02:54 AM

A direct tie in with unmannedspaceflight.com?

Posted by: dmuller Jan 16 2010, 03:56 AM

Nah, snowboarding south!

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Jan 16 2010, 04:08 AM

Maybe Phoenix did one-arm pushups to keep warm all winter.

Posted by: Hungry4info Jan 16 2010, 04:26 AM

Maybe they discovered water on Mars!
More seriously, I'm guessing it's MPL or Beagle 2 as well. I don't really know what else could come from HiRise to warrant an all-caps big announcement. I'm faintly thinking something about the methane sources, but I don't see how it could have been done with HiRise, unless... they imaged a bunch of animals running about.

Posted by: elakdawalla Jan 16 2010, 05:42 AM

Hungry4info, I hate your suggestion, because seriously, you might be right.

Posted by: eoincampbell Jan 16 2010, 05:57 AM

Why are we waiting?

Posted by: Patteroast Jan 16 2010, 06:32 AM

How many times has water on Mars been discovered? It must be over a dozen by now.

I hope it does turn out to be one of the lost landers. That would be quite cool news.

Posted by: nprev Jan 16 2010, 06:47 AM

If it IS water, it'd better be an active geyser or a hot spring!

Posted by: Stu Jan 16 2010, 08:18 AM

I hope it isn't just the discovery of MPL or Beagle, because the press might crucify them for that - for us it would be cool, true, but finding the wreckage of a dead, failed probe would not be a "big" thing for serious media or the general public, surely?

No, I think this has to be water related.

Hey! Maybe they found some trees! Oh, wait...

Posted by: Paolo Jan 16 2010, 08:22 AM

or combining all three main themes (old spacecraft, liquid water and life) perhaps they imaged a Martian dog taking a leak on the MPL wreck...

Posted by: nprev Jan 16 2010, 08:29 AM

...okay, gotta remember, NEVER be in the middle of drinking anything when I read threads like these! (Good one, Paolo.)

Posted by: Stu Jan 16 2010, 08:47 AM

Actually, to deliberately use the word "big" like that, they'd better have taken an image of a martian tripod war machine, wading through a gurgling martian gully, carrying the wreckage of both Beagle 2 and MPL in the cage beneath its belly...

Posted by: Sunspot Jan 16 2010, 09:25 AM

I think it's an annual event now.

Posted by: Hungry4info Jan 16 2010, 10:04 AM

I'm unfortunately rather lacking in understanding of what MRO can do other than take great images (All it's got is HiRISE as far as I know).
If, say, MRO spotted a patch of mold or something, would there be any evidence other than HiRISE images that it's something unique? Surely they've got to be able to do some sort of spectroscopy. Maybe?

Posted by: ngunn Jan 16 2010, 10:14 AM

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/spacecraft/instruments.html

Posted by: monitorlizard Jan 16 2010, 12:04 PM

The best discovery would be if MRO found more money for MSL.

Posted by: ugordan Jan 16 2010, 12:41 PM

Are you kidding? It would be like finally solving a mysterious crime case or something! I hope it is one of the lost landers, but fully expect to be underwhelmed with something else (past news hyping up as a guide).

Posted by: Stu Jan 16 2010, 01:28 PM

Partly kidding, yes I'm just worried about their use of the word "big" - in upper case, too! - raising false expectations and building up the story too much in advance. Obviously finding one of those probes would be v exciting for us, here, but I think "out there" it wouldn't be such a big deal, then the MRO team might be accused of over-hype. Guess we'll see Wednesday.

Posted by: AndyG Jan 16 2010, 02:54 PM

Why Wednesday?

Is this linked to Wednesday being the 20th, and that's the anniversary of the "Mars Polar Water is pure" story of 2009?

Andy

Posted by: elakdawalla Jan 16 2010, 03:17 PM

I assume it's Wednesday because that's when the HiRISE team releases new images.

Posted by: Stu Jan 16 2010, 03:28 PM

Is this a "covered on NASA TV" thing, or just an info release being made by MRO, anyone know? If it's just an info release it suggests 'big' isn't 'huge'...

Posted by: ilbasso Jan 16 2010, 03:55 PM

It's either (1) the S.S. Minnow, (2) Amelia Earhart's plane, (3) the Ark of the Covenant, or (4) bin Laden's hideout. Remember, you heard it here first!

Posted by: elakdawalla Jan 16 2010, 04:11 PM

No press release or impending conference or anything, just that Tweet from the HiRISE team, written in a way that they knew would drive us nuts. They're probably laughing at this thread right now.

Posted by: Stu Jan 16 2010, 04:23 PM

Yeah, I'm beginning to think this is a bit of a wind-up myself...

Posted by: volcanopele Jan 16 2010, 07:13 PM

Wednesday is also the day of the week the latest issues of Nature hit the web and press releases based on papers published in Nature are posted.

Not that I'm saying that it is a paper in Nature. Just pointing that out. I've been personally watching Science (which posts on Thursdays), so I can post a certain news item on my blog.

Posted by: nprev Jan 16 2010, 07:25 PM

Hmm. Enigmatic!

Monday's probably a key day. If they announce a press conference for Wed then, that'll be an indicator of magnitude.

Posted by: Decepticon Jan 16 2010, 07:25 PM

If it is the polar lander, I would be surpised if it looks like a soft landing.

Posted by: mcaplinger Jan 16 2010, 07:58 PM

Because this is a HiRISE-only thing, I'm thinking it's not likely to be publication-related, since that would usually be coordinated with the rest of the MRO payload (and yes, there are other instruments on MRO. Sigh.)

And frankly, IMHO this is not a very professional way to "announce" anything.

Posted by: nprev Jan 16 2010, 08:03 PM

Yeah, I was thinking that my pet hope (hot spring) would probably have to have supporting CRISM data, if the resolution of the latter was sufficient enough to provide supporting evidence (presumably chemical 'staining' of the immediate area). Switching my money to MPL/Beagle.

Posted by: PDP8E Jan 16 2010, 08:03 PM

... after working my meager sources for info I have nothing... My hope it that they imaged the Mars 3 lander (sprawled out, laying on its side after a hard landing)

Posted by: nprev Jan 16 2010, 08:08 PM

Any of the lost landers would definitely be a major coup, but as Stu pointed out also only of extreme interest to the science community & aficianados such as ourselves, not the general public. That could make it Twitter-worthy but not cross the threshold of sounding trumpets.

Posted by: remcook Jan 16 2010, 08:52 PM

It's not pregnant, is it?

It's got to be disappointing.

Posted by: Stu Jan 16 2010, 08:55 PM

Whatever it is, it's going to be disapointing after that!

Posted by: nprev Jan 16 2010, 09:13 PM

...yeah, the headline "Mars Orbiter Transforms Into Von Neumann Machine" would DEFINITELY merit a press conference, at least...

Posted by: PaulM Jan 16 2010, 09:37 PM

I remember that a Crism scientist once said that Crism would be able to detect a stromatolitic mat on Mars. Perhaps MRO has detected life on Mars?

Posted by: scalbers Jan 16 2010, 09:39 PM

Speaking of stromatolites, could it be related to this?

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/07/17/the-mysterious-mars-mounds/

Posted by: nprev Jan 16 2010, 09:57 PM

In order to reduce the peril of going astray, suggest everyone review the forum guidelines (esp. rule 1.3)...and, in any case, I would put the odds of some sort of biological discovery from HiRISE at basically zero.

Posted by: tharrison Jan 17 2010, 01:00 AM

Hopefully it's not *another* case of something that CTX pointed out to them (or that MOC already saw) that they're taking credit for...

Posted by: alan Jan 17 2010, 01:38 AM

They've located Al Capone's vault?

Posted by: tharrison Jan 17 2010, 02:04 AM

Nah, it's Elvis, didn't you know he lives in the Face?

Posted by: Decepticon Jan 17 2010, 02:42 AM

Out of curiosity can they lower MRO orbit in the future to increase resolution?

Posted by: nprev Jan 17 2010, 03:07 AM

I kinda doubt it. The mapping orbit is something like 250 km altitude, think going any lower would be prohibitively expensive in terms of propellent expenditure to stay aloft due to atmospheric drag.

Posted by: mcaplinger Jan 17 2010, 03:13 AM

255 x 320 km, and no, there are no plans to lower it.

Posted by: sgendreau Jan 17 2010, 06:09 AM

They re-imaged Eagle Crater and spotted boot prints in the Oppy tracks.

Anyone seen Squyres lately?

Posted by: imipak Jan 17 2010, 06:27 PM

For the reason Mcaplinger gave, I don't expect major scientific findings. I think it's something relatively small; something of interest to us, but probably won't even make an inside page of the broadsheet press. (Did any of them run the HiRISE ""trees"" images? I've been housebound by snow & then pork-cough & haven't seen a paper for 10 days.) I reckon "Big" is misdirection, and means "spatially large" rather than "earthshaking significance". Put it this way, I'm confident it'll fall within the forum guidelines of acceptable topics.

Now, cross my palm with silicon, and old mother Imipak will gaze into the swirling cloud of sediment in this fine bottle conditioned ale. Ah, yes! the fog is lifting....

I predict that the number of posts on this thread before the announcement will be less than the number afterwards. Given my record of predictions, I recommend Doug upgrade the server and bandwidth immediately, ahead of the forthcoming flashmob heading UMSF's way on Wednesday

FWIW, I quite enjoy it when a little tease is trailed in the water a few days before the odd routine, but interesting-to-us, announcement or release. A little wild speculation and anticipation, within forum guidelines of course, seems like harmless fun... anagrams apart

Posted by: nprev Jan 17 2010, 09:09 PM

Mike, hopefully not OT, but why is MRO's orbit a bit elliptical instead of circular? Is this to minimize atmospheric drag?

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jan 17 2010, 09:48 PM

"255 x 320 km, and no, there are no plans to lower it."

How about to raise it late in the mission, to delay possible contamination?

Phil

Posted by: mcaplinger Jan 18 2010, 12:03 AM

It's required to keep the orbit "frozen" at a sun-synchronous precession rate (this was one of many permutations possible.)

Posted by: mcaplinger Jan 18 2010, 12:07 AM

In the mission plan, it was to be raised at the end of 2010 (end of the relay mission) but I haven't heard anything about that recently. If consumables are doing OK I expect that will be delayed as long as possible. They never did raise the orbit of MGS AFAIK.

Also, MRO's breakup analysis showed there were no planetary protection issues if it did crash; there was some sterilization to insure this (e.g., cable bundles.) http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AdSpR..42.1108B

Posted by: Juramike Jan 18 2010, 12:35 AM

Maybe Mars Express photobombed a HiRise image?

Posted by: siravan Jan 19 2010, 04:20 AM

The entire January issue of Icarus is dedicated to HiRISE; a total of 20 papers!

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00191035

Any guess for which one contains the BIG announcement?

Posted by: djellison Jan 19 2010, 07:23 AM

Why are you assuming it's in any of them. No press conference scheduled, this isn't going to be a big discovery.

Posted by: siravan Jan 19 2010, 11:22 AM

I think if there is going to be any major announcement (there might not be any, as you said no press conference is schedule), and when they have just 20 papers out, then it is logical to assume there is a link between these two events.

Posted by: Stu Jan 19 2010, 11:55 AM

I know what you're saying Siravan, but I think it's pretty safe to say that there's going to be no big 'discovery' announced, because:

* There's no NASA press event scheduled
* It has only been mentioned on Twitter (and here, and on UT, both reporting the original Twitter mention)
* None of the "big" space web sites are worked up about this
* No details have leaked out - ALL the major discovery announcements have been leaked, despite being embargoed.

I think the original Tweet has probably been misinterpreted. Having said that, the HiRISE Twitterer hasn't done anything to correct that misinterpretation. Bit naughty, but got us all talking about HiRISE!

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jan 19 2010, 12:13 PM

All these points suggest it's only big to people like us, which makes MPL more likely than a science story. But as we are people like us, that counts as big.

Phil

Posted by: cassioli Jan 19 2010, 02:45 PM

I subscribe discussion... hoping you'll not post too many "false positives" while waiting...

Posted by: Sunspot Jan 20 2010, 10:05 AM

I guess the actual large number of papers is the big announcement.

Posted by: MahFL Jan 20 2010, 01:16 PM

Maybe they spotted a big volcano.....oh wait.....nevermind.

Posted by: OWW Jan 20 2010, 02:29 PM

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/releases/hiwish.php

HiWish is the announcement?

Posted by: djellison Jan 20 2010, 02:30 PM

Probably. Like I said - no big press conference means no big news.

Personally - I find that very very exciting.

Posted by: Sunspot Jan 20 2010, 02:37 PM

Ii was going post that but edited my post when I saw there were observing requests from early last year - I thought it was something already known, but i'd missed it

Posted by: djellison Jan 20 2010, 02:55 PM

It's only gone public today. It's access, I believe, to the same tool used internally for target suggestion, more or less.

Posted by: Hungry4info Jan 20 2010, 03:24 PM

Great, now we can expect weekly images from Cydonia

Posted by: Juramike Jan 20 2010, 03:35 PM

I think this is a massive announcement, almost the same scale as pushing Pathfinder images to the internet.

It represents a continuing paradigm shift. Think about it, now the public at large can suggest an imaging target for a major spacecraft. This continues the progression of more and more access. (And hopefully, more downstream support).

This opens space up to everyone.

I can't actually think of anything that would be bigger.

Posted by: mcaplinger Jan 20 2010, 03:38 PM

Interesting that it took the "People's Camera" all the way until now to implement this.

You mean again, right? Considering that we did this for years on MOC.

Posted by: djellison Jan 20 2010, 03:39 PM

Not to belabour MC's point - but we were able to do this with MGS / MOC.

And they did thousands of publicly suggested images.

Posted by: Juramike Jan 20 2010, 03:43 PM

Oh, I agree.

This is a continuation of that, and with a more powerful camera.

But the trend to more and more back-and-forth feedback is huge. Compare this to just a few decades ago and waiting for the local newspaper to print one selected image....


(I'll also timidly add that more tools are available to the general public as well: Google Mars, HiRise images via internet, and more and more internet connections and faster access. Only until the last few years did I personally get a decent enough connection to be able to enjoy the plethora of data in the public domain.)

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jan 20 2010, 04:07 PM

Darn - I'm still rooting for MPL. Someone in the HiCAVE is laughing at me right now. (I know where you live)

Phil

Posted by: ugordan Jan 20 2010, 05:28 PM

Heh, I was thinking the same thing.


I hear you, brother. I want to see its final resting place and the condition it's in.

Posted by: eoincampbell Jan 20 2010, 06:29 PM

Well, I was about to request more possible MPL sites but I'm having trouble with the HiWISH form...
Can you all see the map on the right ?...

Posted by: Greg Hullender Jan 20 2010, 06:32 PM

We should call this sort of technology "Space 2.0" by analogy to "Web 2.0," which meant sites like Wikipedia that worked by massive involvement of the public.

In this case, I hope "massive" ends up meaning more than just us here though. :-)

--Greg

Posted by: helvick Jan 20 2010, 07:12 PM

Scott Maxwell's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T1JsWq9PnI seems appropriate here - this is a another good step along that road.

Posted by: elakdawalla Jan 20 2010, 08:33 PM

I started a http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=6420 for discussions of spots that we in the UMSF community pick using the HiWish tool.

Posted by: tharrison Jan 20 2010, 11:50 PM

I thought this might be the announcement because it's the only non-science thing I could think of besides MPL...not such a "big" announcement seeing as they promised to have this capability from the beginning. I remember frustratingly waiting for it to come online when I was in grad school.