Massive Subsurface Ice Deposits in Southern Hemisphere, MARSIS results - LPSC 2006 |
Massive Subsurface Ice Deposits in Southern Hemisphere, MARSIS results - LPSC 2006 |
Oct 20 2006, 01:04 AM
Post
#16
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Canberra Member No.: 558 |
I can appreciate the artistic enhancement that is added in many of these Mars Express images, but that image of Vastitas Borealis is just plain weird looking. Does anyone know if this is an overlay of a MARSIS image? Or just some over-zealous image retouching? http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMADOV74TE_0.html It's actually Deuteronilus Mensae, not Vasitas Borealis. It is is a very nice oblique 3D rendering of a HRSC imaging showing plastic material flowing out of a circular degression away from the viewing point and then to the left. Lots of features suggest ice-like behaviour - an apparent bergsrund where the material laps up against the edge of the circular feature, apparent crevasses, media flow ridges, and zones of stagnation (which even have scattered craters, suggesting that in some areas the plastic material is quite old). So it is has nothing to do with MARSIS, there is no overlay, and there certainly has not been any retouching. Jon |
|
|
Oct 20 2006, 01:34 AM
Post
#17
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 267 Joined: 5-February 06 Member No.: 675 |
It's actually Deuteronilus Mensae, not Vasitas Borealis. It is is a very nice oblique 3D rendering of a HRSC imaging showing plastic material flowing out of a circular degression away from the viewing point and then to the left. Lots of features suggest ice-like behaviour - an apparent bergsrund where the material laps up against the edge of the circular feature, apparent crevasses, media flow ridges, and zones of stagnation (which even have scattered craters, suggesting that in some areas the plastic material is quite old). I think you and Dan are talking at cross purposes. You're describing Deutronilus Mensae but he seems to be referring to the fourth image on that page showing Vasitas Borealis, which has a large circle of blueish white material, identified as ice, in the center of the crater. So it is has nothing to do with MARSIS, there is no overlay, and there certainly has not been any retouching. Jon In any event, I agree with you that there isn't any retouching. The colors look artificial but Mars is stranger than we expect. Steve |
|
|
Oct 20 2006, 06:05 AM
Post
#18
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Canberra Member No.: 558 |
I think you and Dan are talking at cross purposes. You're describing Deutronilus Mensae but he seems to be referring to the fourth image on that page showing Vasitas Borealis, which has a large circle of blueish white material, identified as ice, in the center of the crater. In any event, I agree with you that there isn't any retouching. The colors look artificial but Mars is stranger than we expect. Steve Ah, silly me. That was the only strange looking image (for me) on the page so I assumed that was the one meant. The fourth image is perhaps the most famous, popular, and beautiful HRSC image yet. It shows a dome like deposit of white ice on an unnamed crater floor. The feature has been observed by MOC also, although none of those images have quite the same aesthetic appeal. It is perhaps the southernmost surface exposure of water ice in the Martian north polar region. I love the frost on the crater rim as well. No retouching, and I think the colour is great. Jon |
|
|
Mar 13 2007, 12:36 PM
Post
#19
|
|
Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
Some information about what MARSIS is doing and not doing.
-------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
|
|
Mar 13 2007, 03:52 PM
Post
#20
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 311 Joined: 31-August 05 From: Florida & Texas, USA Member No.: 482 |
Some information about what MARSIS is doing and not doing. "And liquid water? Do we have answers to where it might be? MARSIS data inversion on the south pole has found compatibility with water dielectric constant. According to the geologist opinion in many areas at medium latitude could be possible to find subsurface water traces." Exciting stuff! I wonder what depth are the medium latitude water deposits expected? 142 days until phoenix launches.... and counting. It'll be nice to put some "ground truth" to MARSIS results on the poles. |
|
|
Mar 15 2007, 09:09 PM
Post
#21
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 13-July 05 From: The Hague, NL Member No.: 434 |
More on the ice deposits at the Southern Hemisphere..
I read that in the next edition of Science a team of German scientist will report on the presence of a massive 1.6 million cubic km of almost pure water ice at the South pole of Mars. If that lot melts, Mars would be covered in 11 m water. Anyone with access to Science who can add to this rather brief announcement? |
|
|
Mar 15 2007, 09:19 PM
Post
#22
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 443 Joined: 1-July 05 From: New York City Member No.: 424 |
JPL has a press release up on its site: "Mars' South Pole Ice Deep and Wide".
It wasn't clear to me on a hasty comparison with last year's announcements how much of this is really news. It looks as though the hypothetical depth if the ice was TTT Edit: As subsequent posts pointed out, that should be from ten to eleven meters. This post has been edited by Tom Tamlyn: Mar 16 2007, 02:22 PM |
|
|
Mar 16 2007, 03:51 AM
Post
#23
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 258 Joined: 22-December 06 Member No.: 1503 |
Last year's announcement included speculation that if held true, then melting would cover the planet 10 meters in water. This new announcement is very different in that it is not only confirmation of what they once thought MIGHT be true, but also additional ice has now been found and confirmed.
Then it was speculation on quantity; now it is fact. This is just ice in the South Polar area. I wonder how much additional ice is at the North Pole. |
|
|
Mar 16 2007, 10:25 AM
Post
#24
|
|
Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
-------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
|
|
Mar 16 2007, 12:05 PM
Post
#25
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 13-July 05 From: The Hague, NL Member No.: 434 |
With so much water now positively identified it may be time to change our mindset about Mars.
Where the research started tentatively with "Follow the Water" it seems appropriate to start thinking in terms of "Mars Water Missions". Both EU and USA are developing new Flagship missions and, with all respect, why travel to Jupiter & beyond for water when it is relatively speaking at our doorstep on Mars? Not so long ago there was also a mention of Methane being detected on Mars. Whilst this may still be a "whiff" in scientific terms, i.e. not so firm as this confirmation of the presence of water, I would say that the combination of these two gives a very clear steer if not an overwhelming case for developing Detecting Life (or LIfe-artifact) studies on Mars. |
|
|
Mar 16 2007, 12:16 PM
Post
#26
|
|
Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
I would say that the combination of these two gives a very clear steer if not an overwhelming case for developing Detecting Life (or LIfe-artifact) studies on Mars. Or on the right path aren't we?... -------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
|
|
Mar 16 2007, 02:31 PM
Post
#27
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
|
|
|
Mar 16 2007, 03:34 PM
Post
#28
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
One of the things this gets me thinking about is what would have happened, historically, when a major impact hit one of these polar ice sheets. Many tens of km of water ice could be vaporized, and H2O ice is on the order of 100,000 times denser than the current martian atmosphere. Some CO2 would be released as well. It seems like a big impact could have doubled the martian atmosphere whereas a truly colossal basin-creating impact could create a martian atmosphere more comparable to Earth's in extent. That H2O would probably end up deposited globally as an ice layer of cm (?), then sublimate away in the equatorial regions and gradually end up poleward. This would be create a limited catastrophic water cycle that may have "turned" just a few times in martian history.
|
|
|
Mar 16 2007, 09:08 PM
Post
#29
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 247 Joined: 17-February 07 From: ESAC, cerca Madrid, Spain. Member No.: 1743 |
All this great news about the ice deposits is a great testament to the operations people who got MARSIS working. The ESA web site details some of the long delays in getting those weird MARSIS booms deployed, and the problems they had when they finally did it. The good news took many frustrating years of patience.
Let's hope this is a big help to the Phoenix team. I hope their search starts as well as this European mission did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryd9udbh6X8 -don -------------------- --
cndwrld@yahoo.com |
|
|
Mar 16 2007, 10:45 PM
Post
#30
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 258 Joined: 22-December 06 Member No.: 1503 |
Although this is great news with significant implications, MARSIS still has a lot of work to do. Since it has been determined that only about 4% of the original water on Mars could have been lost to space, that leaves 95% missing. This particular discovery only finds about 10% of that missing water. Let's assume that the North Polar region has a similar amount of ice locked up underneath. That means 75% of the original water on Mars is still missing. Perhaps the reservoirs found closer to the equator make up a few percentages. Now that means 70% of the water is missing. Where is it?
My guess is that there are additional HUGE reservoirs underground over a variety of areas on Mars. MARSIS should be able to find some of them. That means it still needs to do a survey over the entire planet. With the core of Mars being much cooler than Earth, water could easily have penetrated underground MUCH deeper. The question is: how deep? |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 20th April 2024 - 05:02 AM |
RULES AND GUIDELINES Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting. IMAGE COPYRIGHT |
OPINIONS AND MODERATION Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators. |
SUPPORT THE FORUM Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member. |