Fastest Spacecraft Ever?!?, Which one is it? |
Fastest Spacecraft Ever?!?, Which one is it? |
Jan 24 2006, 08:43 AM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 648 Joined: 9-May 05 From: Subotica Member No.: 384 |
There was statement that recently launched New Horizons is the fastest spacecraft to leave Earth. The velocity was 16.2 km/s relative to the Earth according to "Jonathan's Space Report".
QUOTE After the Star 48B burn, the payload had reached escape velocity not only with respect to the Earth but also relative to the Sun (The velocity was 16.2 km/s relative to the Earth and I estimate an asymptotic velocity of 12.3 km/s, corresponding to 42.6 km/s relative to the Sun... So: New Horizons is fastest to leave Earth at 16.2 km/s (relative to Earth). Voyager-1 is fastest to leave Solar System at 17.374 km/s (relative to Sun). Now that is OK. but what is this? Today's "Astronomy Picture of the Day" features launch of New Horizons and in text bellow image is one particularly interesting link to "Guinness world of records"... Guinness world of records; There "Mr. Guinness" claims that the fastest spacecrafts ever, were two Solar probes "Helios 1&2"...According to him those spacecrafts had speed of 252,800 km/h which is staggering 70.2 km/s...BUT RELATIVE TO WHAT????? Can somebody explain this? -------------------- The scientist does not study nature because it is useful; he studies it because he delights in it, and he delights in it because it is beautiful.
Jules H. Poincare My "Astrophotos" gallery on flickr... |
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May 8 2006, 02:54 PM
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#31
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2454 Joined: 8-July 05 From: NGC 5907 Member No.: 430 |
G. Landis had a similar idea to Meyer's one year to Pluto drive in 1989.
The Landis paper online: http://www.sff.net/people/geoffrey.landis/...ightsail89.html The Centauri Dreams article: http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=652 -------------------- "After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance. I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard, and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft." - Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853 |
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May 8 2006, 04:04 PM
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#32
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3648 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
Also the payload would probably have to have some kind of spaced multiple shielding. At 185 kms-1 even micrometeorites would be deadly. As Arthur C. Clarke used to point out - when something hits you in space, it doesn't really matter whether it's travelling at 10 or 1000 km/s. Either way, you're toast 185 km/s probably doesn't require additional shielding. You just have to hope that every dust grain that hits you is microscopic. If it's not -- you'll buy the farm anyway. -------------------- |
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May 8 2006, 04:06 PM
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#33
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Well - consider a 1 gramme projectile at 10km/sec - that's 50,000 joules of energy
Consider it moving at 185 km/sec - that's 17112500 joules, or 342 times as much (i.e. 18.5 ^2 ) Doug |
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May 8 2006, 04:13 PM
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#34
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3648 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
That's true, but consider what are the odds of flying into a one-gram chunk (assuming you're not flying by a comet - in which case 200 km/s doesn't give you a big science op)? Present multi-layer protective blankets are IIRC designed to withstand micron-sized (or whatever) dust impacts. A 1-gram dust grain would punch through the shielding in both cases and would potentially be disastrous to the s/c. IMHO, it would be unfeasible to add shielding mass such that it would specifically protect the s/c against such large and statistically unlikely impacts.
Which reminds me of "whipple-shields" used on Stardust - how large impactors were they designed to hold? -------------------- |
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May 8 2006, 04:16 PM
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#35
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
I wasn't suggesting we would encounter 1 gramme particles - I was just using that as a simple figure from which to demonstrate the way the energy ramps up with the square of the velocity.
Doug |
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May 8 2006, 04:19 PM
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#36
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3648 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
energy ramps up with the square of the mass. You mean velocity? -------------------- |
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May 8 2006, 04:23 PM
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#37
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Oop- yes
Doug |
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Guest_DonPMitchell_* |
May 10 2006, 10:37 PM
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#38
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Guests |
I believe it is the case that it takes far more energy to send a probe to the Sun than it does to send a probe out of the solar system. The third cosmic speed is about 17 km/sec. But to cancel the Earth's orbital speed and fall into the Sun would require reaching about 30 km/sec.
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May 11 2006, 01:49 AM
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 599 Joined: 26-August 05 Member No.: 476 |
If one were not permitted to cheat and use one or more gravity assists.
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May 11 2006, 03:18 AM
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#40
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10162 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
No, that would just be the method.
Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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May 11 2006, 07:46 AM
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#41
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Yes - it seems unintuitive at first, but the number of flybys and the fuel mass ratio of Messenger show just how difficult Mercury is.
Doug |
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May 11 2006, 11:03 AM
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#42
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1870 Joined: 20-February 05 Member No.: 174 |
"...square of the velocity...."
When we're dealing with speeds of tens of kilometers per second, I'm inclined to think of the kinetic energy in terms of the "square of the ferocity"! Zip-CRUNCH! |
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May 11 2006, 08:41 PM
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 599 Joined: 26-August 05 Member No.: 476 |
No, that would just be the method. I had interpreted "energy" in the post as the C3 "energy" for injecting into a solar orbit. The C3 for a direct trajectory to intersect the Sun's surface is greater than, say, a VEEGA trajectory to a Jupiter gravity assist back towards the Sun. I hesitate here because I don't know if it is possible to get the required inflection without going into Jupiter's atmosphere. |
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May 11 2006, 09:23 PM
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#44
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2488 Joined: 17-April 05 From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Member No.: 239 |
I had interpreted "energy" in the post as the C3 "energy" for injecting into a solar orbit. The C3 for a direct trajectory to intersect the Sun's surface is greater than, say, a VEEGA trajectory to a Jupiter gravity assist back towards the Sun. I hesitate here because I don't know if it is possible to get the required inflection without going into Jupiter's atmosphere. You can actually get *very* close to the 'surface' of Jupiter and still be out of it's atmosphere, the pressure of which drops of rapidly with altitude (unlike, say, Mars). Of course, if you get it wrong, it's a problem... Bob Shaw -------------------- Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
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