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Unmanned Spaceflight.com _ Lunar Exploration _ LADEE

Posted by: Paolo Jun 28 2012, 03:25 PM

I thought it was time to start a new topic on NASA's next Moon mission
incidentally, there is a http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/news/2012-06-27-pm_update.html out today

Posted by: Paolo Jul 21 2012, 03:47 PM

LADEE launch is now expected in August 2013 http://msdb.gsfc.nasa.gov/change_log.php
so who will launch first? LADEE or Chang'e 3?

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jul 21 2012, 04:25 PM

I thought Chang'E 3 was scheduled for October.

Phil


Posted by: Paolo Jul 21 2012, 05:11 PM

I only saw it mentioned as "second half" of 2013

Posted by: Paolo Jan 4 2013, 06:19 AM

now with solar panels attached http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/news/2013-1-03_update.html

Posted by: Explorer1 Aug 22 2013, 06:52 PM

LADEE briefing in a few minutes:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv

EDIT: Grunsfeld's tie!

Posted by: belleraphon1 Aug 23 2013, 11:50 AM

LADEE briefing from 08/22/2013 on Youtube in case folks missed it.

LADEE briefing 08/22/2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTzo0Lq1-T4

Craig



Posted by: John D. Pritchard Sep 3 2013, 09:58 PM

LADEE launch window 6 SEP 2013 23:27 EDT for 4 minutes
http://moon.nasa.gov/docs/LADEE_Schedule1.pdf

Citizen Science
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/main/get-involved.html#.UiYoMd-m0ak
Looking for telescopic lunar impact flashes and Earth meteor counts for LADEE mission duration.

Twitter coverage



http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Breaking.html#.UiOjk9-m0ak
September 5, Thursday

September 6, Friday

September 7, Saturday

Posted by: Explorer1 Sep 4 2013, 02:28 AM

Welcome, John, and thanks for the comprehensive list!
All times are in Eastern, by the way.

Posted by: John D. Pritchard Sep 4 2013, 03:21 AM

QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Sep 3 2013, 09:28 PM) *
Welcome, John, and thanks for the comprehensive list!

Thanks for the welcome


Posted by: CryptoEngineer Sep 6 2013, 09:37 PM

I look forward to LADEE's launch tonight.

One of the more intriguing bits of new kit is the LLCD - a laser based communication system. It has a number of advantages over radio; smaller size & power, greatly improved data rates, and it doesn't require exclusive use of a chunk of radio spectrum.

But there are still things I wonder about.

1. How do the two ends find each other? At lunar distance the 'spot' illuminated by the laser is only a few miles across.
2. There are three ground sites - one in California, one in New Mexico, and one in Tenerife; how does it know where to look?
3. The laser operates in the near infra-red. To what extent can it deal with cloud?

I presume there's some beacon mechanism to indicate 'look more closely here', but its not described.

To what extent can it deal with slew? Would this mechanism be useful for Earth-orbit-to-ground communications?

CE

Posted by: djellison Sep 6 2013, 11:01 PM

QUOTE (CryptoEngineer @ Sep 6 2013, 02:37 PM) *
1. How do the two ends find each other?


No different to radio - you need to know where you are, and where the station is. MRO has to know where the Earth is. Goldstone has to know where MRO is, for example.

QUOTE
2. There are three ground sites - one in California, one in New Mexico, and one in Tenerife; how does it know where to look?


Same as radio - by programming in the appropriate information. It's a simple geometry problem.

QUOTE
3. The laser operates in the near infra-red. To what extent can it deal with cloud?


I don't believe it can. Higher freq radio struggles with rain. The increase in bandwidth more than makes up for the times when you can't communicate (i.e. 10x faster, but maybe you drop 1 day in 10 is still a 9 fold increase)

QUOTE
To what extent can it deal with slew? Would this mechanism be useful for Earth-orbit-to-ground communications?


No different, again, to radio - you just need slightly tighter pointing control. Spacecraft-to-Spacecraft laser has already been tested, as has orbiter to ground with Alphasat and ESA intends to use it in their version of TDRS. LRO has received data via laser into LOLA.

Doug

Posted by: mcaplinger Sep 6 2013, 11:11 PM

QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 6 2013, 04:01 PM) *
No different to radio...

Actually, I think the spot size is small enough that a separate wider-field (or scanned, maybe, not clear) acquisition beam has to be sent by the ground station so that the flight system can adjust its pointing dynamically -- see http://dspace.mit.edu/openaccess-disseminate/1721.1/61673‎

Posted by: ChrisC Sep 7 2013, 02:50 AM

Oh, it's definitely different from radio alright. About 4-5 orders of magnitude different. The far higher frequencies of light mean a far smaller beamwidth than a typical radio link, so they have to use spatial searching algorithms. See this video (cued up to the right moment) for a very brief discussion of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03BN7_4N0yQ&t=38s

More info here:
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/llcdfactsheet.final_.web_.pdf

Posted by: Explorer1 Sep 7 2013, 03:15 AM

T-11 minutes...

EDIT: Liftoff! It shot up so fast!

Posted by: dvandorn Sep 7 2013, 03:42 AM

That thing leapt off the pad like there was something a-comin' after it and it didn't dare to look back...

-the other Doug

Posted by: ChrisC Sep 7 2013, 04:09 AM

Minotaur sure doesn't dawdle staging between 1 and 2, does it?

Posted by: Astro0 Sep 7 2013, 05:37 AM

If you missed the launch...
NASA TV http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf0SIRxXvRo

Posted by: Paolo Sep 7 2013, 06:04 AM

press conf now beginning on NASA TV. at a confortable 8 AM here in Europe (yes, we were mostly sleeping during the launch itself...)

Posted by: dilo Sep 7 2013, 07:03 AM

QUOTE (Paolo @ Sep 7 2013, 07:04 AM) *
press conf now beginning on NASA TV. at a confortable 8 AM here in Europe (yes, we were mostly sleeping during the launch itself...)

I confirm, Paolo! wink.gif
After picture-perfect launch, in the press conference they told about safe-mode due to a reaction wheel issue... let's hope they will solve soon!

PS: this image is fantastic!
http://spaceweather.com/gallery/full_image.php?image_name=Ben-Cooper-LADEE_1378531705.jpg

Posted by: nprev Sep 7 2013, 11:26 AM

Thanks for posting the video, Astro0; just got home from work & immediately came here to look for same! smile.gif

And what Gordan & oDoug said...that thing scoots. Talk about a bat out of hell. Nice little booster.

Posted by: John Pritchard Sep 7 2013, 10:02 PM

Hi,

The NASA Social media event for the launch and mission of LADEE was a fairly intense two days. NASA did a great job of not running us beyond our limits, but filling our days with educational activity. We heard about many topics in addition to LADEE flight and science.

Pix are up on G+, although without captions.
https://plus.google.com/photos/102180409349200176360/albums/5920875210826437601
https://plus.google.com/photos/102180409349200176360/albums/5920879400957736705

A first reflection on the whole experience can be found here.
https://plus.google.com/102180409349200176360/posts/YxPAWcGqHdy

In depth study notes (as I like to call more technical [g+ length] posts), will take me a year to dig into. But will be coming on G+.

John

Posted by: craigmcg Sep 7 2013, 10:47 PM

Update on reaction wheel problem via Twitter:

@NASALADEE's reaction wheels were successfully brought back on-line. Get the latest as LADEE heads to the moon at http://www.nasa.gov/ladee

Posted by: CryptoEngineer Sep 10 2013, 06:51 PM

QUOTE (ChrisC @ Sep 6 2013, 09:50 PM) *
Oh, it's definitely different from radio alright. About 4-5 orders of magnitude different. The far higher frequencies of light mean a far smaller beamwidth than a typical radio link, so they have to use spatial searching algorithms. See this video (cued up to the right moment) for a very brief discussion of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03BN7_4N0yQ&t=38s


Thanks for the links! I thought there had to be some kind of active aiming refinement.

BTW: I saw the launch, from northern Massachusetts, over 360 miles away.

CP

Posted by: bobik Sep 11 2013, 06:35 AM

In her http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/09051700-ladee-prelaunch-facts.html, Emily Lakdawalla states that the Lunar Dust Experiment (LDEX) has heritage from Cassini CAPS (Cassini Plasma Spectrometer). I wonder if that is correct. CAPS measures the energy and electrical charge of particles such as electrons and protons and LDEX is an impact ionization dust detector. Emily probably mixed it up with Cassini's CDA (Cosmic Dust Analyzer).

Posted by: John Pritchard Sep 11 2013, 07:00 AM

QUOTE (bobik @ Sep 11 2013, 01:35 AM) *
In her http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/09051700-ladee-prelaunch-facts.html, Emily Lakdawalla states that the Lunar Dust Experiment (LDEX) has heritage from Cassini CAPS (Cassini Plasma Spectrometer). I wonder if that is correct. CAPS measures the energy and electrical charge of particles such as electrons and protons and LDEX is an impact ionization dust detector. Emily probably mixed it up with Cassini's CDA (Cosmic Dust Analyzer).


Yes, I recall that the LDEX and NMS instruments started from previous work. The NMS is very close to the instrument on CASSINI. I put a couple links here http://www.spacetweepsociety.org/2013/09/03/ladee-first-flight-to-the-moon-from-wallops-flight-facility/

Posted by: Big Joe Sep 11 2013, 01:32 PM

QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 6 2013, 11:42 PM) *
That thing leapt off the pad like there was something a-comin' after it and it didn't dare to look back...

-the other Doug


A group of us were lucky enough to view the launch, I thought for sure we would not make it off the pad on the first try with such a small window.Tried to video the event however as you said it was so fast off that pad I have about 5 seconds of it then just the sound of the rocket. :-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fxmurphy/9705296082/in/set-72157635443442680

Posted by: John Pritchard Sep 11 2013, 05:02 PM

QUOTE (Big Joe @ Sep 11 2013, 08:32 AM) *
A group of us were lucky enough to view the launch, I thought for sure we would not make it off the pad on the first try with such a small window.Tried to video the event however as you said it was so fast off that pad I have about 5 seconds of it then just the sound of the rocket. :-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fxmurphy/9705296082/in/set-72157635443442680


nice photo rig!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fxmurphy/9703712171/

Posted by: dvandorn Sep 12 2013, 03:47 PM

Ooops! It appears a frog may have given its life for the conquest of space:

[url="http://www.nbcnews.com/science/frog-pops-nasa-photo-ladee-rocket-launch-did-it-croak-8C11134276"]

And the image:



-the other Doug

Posted by: Paolo Feb 1 2014, 09:01 AM

the LADEE mission has been extended one more lunar day (28 Earth days) and the probe will crash on the Moon "on or around April 21, 2014"
http://www.nasa.gov/ames/nasa-extends-moon-exploring-satellite-mission/

Posted by: kenny Feb 1 2014, 11:08 AM

LRO photographed LADEE passing underneath it. They also managed to reconstruct a better image from the blur, showing features on the spacecraft. Very nice...

http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/nasas-lro-snaps-a-picture-of-nasas-ladee-spacecraft/

Posted by: Explorer1 Apr 2 2014, 03:39 AM

Teleconference this Thursday about the extended science and EOM.

http://www.nasa.gov/ames/nasa-to-host-media-teleconference-on-spacecrafts-planned-moon-impact/

Posted by: Phil Stooke Apr 15 2014, 11:28 PM

LADEE tweeted that it survived the eclipse.

Phil

Posted by: djellison Apr 15 2014, 11:38 PM

There's a great display that will autonomously flick between realtime telemetry driven and predicted trajectory

http://ladeestk.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/preview.cgi


Posted by: dilo Apr 16 2014, 01:31 PM

QUOTE (djellison @ Apr 15 2014, 11:38 PM) *
There's a great display that will autonomously flick between realtime telemetry driven and predicted trajectory

Cool indeed! Until this morning (08 UT) periaxis was a mere 5.19 km above nominal surface:

Now connection appear impossible for me (timeout expiring), do someone knows more recen informations?

NOTE: I was able to re-connect few minutes ago, exactly near the new periaxis! at 15:35 it was 5.29km (slightly increased)

Posted by: gwiz Apr 18 2014, 09:54 AM

It's down, no details from NASA yet but someone's tweeted Sundman crater.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Apr 18 2014, 01:01 PM

Yes, Thursday evening California time, Friday morning UT. Sundman crater is just north of Orientale, near Einstein crater and only just on the far side. Details were from Astrogator.

Phil


Posted by: Phil Stooke Sep 18 2014, 07:20 PM

I added LADEE (extreme right edge) and Chang'E 3 to my fake olde-time lunar map with landing and impact sites:

http://publish.uwo.ca/~pjstooke/vehiculum.jpg

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 28 2014, 08:20 PM

LADEE imaged by LROC.

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/822

Here's a finder image to locate the site.

Phil


Posted by: Explorer1 Jun 18 2015, 06:24 PM

Looks like an old mystery may have been solved: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7556/full/nature14479.html

Posted by: dinos Jul 7 2015, 09:46 AM

QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Jun 18 2015, 07:24 PM) *
Looks like an old mystery may have been solved: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7556/full/nature14479.html

interesting but i don't think so... is there any additional source?

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jul 7 2015, 12:01 PM

It's Nature... it is an additional source all by itself.

Perhaps you would care to explain the reason for your scepticism. It all seems pretty reasonable to me.

Phil


Posted by: Paolo Jan 15 2016, 08:20 AM

one new paper on LADEE results in today's Science (and it appears to be in open access!):

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6270/249

QUOTE
Despite being trace constituents of the lunar exosphere, sodium and potassium are the most readily observed species due to their bright line emission. Measurements of these species by the Ultraviolet and Visible Spectrometer (UVS) on the Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) have revealed unambiguous temporal and spatial variations indicative of a strong role for meteoroid bombardment and surface composition in determining the composition and local time dependence of the Moon’s exosphere. Observations show distinct lunar day (monthly) cycles for both species as well as an annual cycle for sodium. The first continuous measurements for potassium show a more repeatable variation across lunations and an enhancement over KREEP (Potassium Rare Earth Elements and Phosphorus) surface regions, revealing a strong dependence on surface composition.


see also the perspective article (also in open access):

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6270/230

QUOTE
In H. G. Wells' 1901 science fiction classic The First Men in the Moon, two protagonists, English businessman Mr. Bedford and the eccentric physicist Dr. Cavor, knock back a special enervating concoction designed to expand their lungs, followed by the requisite fortifying brandy, before venturing onto the Moon's surface to breathe the rarefied lunar atmosphere. Even more tenuous than Wells' imagined environment, the lunar exosphere is an atmosphere so thin that atoms never collide, bounded on one side by the lunar surface and extending thousands of kilometers out into space. This low-density envelope results from a balance among the influx of material from the Sun, outgassing from the Moon's interior, delivery from meteoritic bombardment, and the loss of material to space as well as recycling in the lunar surface (see the figure). The precise formula for the formation of the lunar exosphere is unknown, but recent data from orbital spacecraft are being used to delineate the relative contributions from different processes. On page 249 of this issue, Colaprete et al. (1) report measurements of sodium and potassium (Na and K) in the lunar exosphere based on observations from the Ultraviolet and Visible Spectrometer (UVS) aboard NASA's Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE), which acquired continuous dayside and nightside measurements of exospheric Na and K over multiple lunar orbits.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Aug 29 2016, 02:36 PM

Looking back at this thread, I didn't see any mention of the LADEE star tracker images. I have found three short GIF sequences shot by the star trackers:

http://www.nasa.gov/ames/ladee-star-tracker-image-with-krieger-and-toscanelli-craters

https://www.nasa.gov/ames/ladee-project-scientist-update/

http://www.americaspace.com/?p=59288

If anybody knows of others, please post them!

The first two show the surface illuminated by Earthshine. One has locations identified, the other doesn't. I have located them on these maps.

Phil


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