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Posted by: djellison Jul 2 2009, 08:31 AM

Anyone on UMSF into Ham Radio?

I'm thinking of getting in to it, but only as a means to an ends (setting up a groundstation for Balloon flights, and Cubesats)

I'm booked into the Amsat UK conference at the end of July in Guildford. I know a few of the CUSpaceflight badgerworks guys are going to be there.

My current plan is to grab a fairly cheap UHF/VHF handheld to get my license with. A hand-held UHF/VHF arrow antennae to 'manually' listen in to sats to begin with - which can then be mounted on a rotator at some future point, and then upgrade to a better receiving set at some point.

Doug

Posted by: RoverDriver Jul 2 2009, 10:21 AM

I know that quite a few on the MER team are. JPL has a group of course. I am considering it as well and a fellow driver lent me a book to get the license. Last March I gave a talk where I was explaining how the rovers manage to DX to Earth every day with a few tens of watts.

Paolo

Posted by: djellison Jul 2 2009, 10:50 AM

Lecture 10 from here - http://www.batc.tv/channel.php ( http://www.batc.tv/vod/AMSAT-UK_L10.flv direct link ) actually has the maths behind Ham Radio DIRECT from Mars to Earth if Amsat-DE can put together the cash to get a satellite up there. Just a 60cm dish would get 400bps

Posted by: Astro0 Jul 2 2009, 01:24 PM

Not me personally, but we have a Ham radio set-up at the Canberra DSN.
I'm keen to learn how it all works.

Posted by: MahFL Jul 2 2009, 01:25 PM

K2MAH here .

Thats my callsign, I have a "handy talkie" as they say in the USA. I am not active on it but its handy to have incase of a Hurricane disaster.

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Jul 2 2009, 02:28 PM

Ham radio! I remember that. It's a way to communicate with people on the other side of the world without the cost of a telephone call. Sounds intriguing.

Posted by: nprev Jul 2 2009, 04:43 PM

Back in the day when I worked for NOAA we had ham setups on some of our ships. Never got too serious about it (i.e., logging contacts, follow-up mail confirmations, etc.) but it was a fun way to pass the time during long nights out at sea.

Posted by: Marz Jul 2 2009, 06:37 PM

There's some pretty cool networks HAMs have established:

-- Most cities HAMs have established http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_repeater, so your "handy" UHF/VHF can retransmit your signal at a much highter power.

-- Some repeater stations can allow you to patch into the phone network, which kinda makes it like a cellphone (except since you're also using HAM frequencies, your 'call' must follow the rules of the airways, and of the repeater.

One of the most amazing demonstrations I've seen is commanding a repeater to patch into a VoIP network, which terminates at another repeater, potentially in another country. So your cute, little VHF handy could talk from Pasedena to London. This requires coordination of computers and repeater stations.

Packet radio networks are also pretty interesting.


The tests here in the USA are fairly easy if you know a little electronics. The only thing really to memorize are the HAM frequency bands, with most of the rules being common sense. I think automated transmissions, like the telemetry of a balloon, might get classified as a Beacon signal and require some coordination to ensure nobody else gets trounced at its frequency. Most HAMs are very enthusiastic about electronics projects, so great resource to tap into.

Alas, I earned my license 10 years ago and haven't done much with it.
Cheers,
http://callsign.73ham.net/detail/KD5MLJ

Posted by: Marz Jul 2 2009, 06:45 PM

FYI: here is the cool Handy -> repeater -> VoIP networking.

http://www.irlp.net/

Maybe not directly useful for the balloon experiments, but maybe something like this could be setup with a webpage for live streaming data, or field observations, or ???

Posted by: SFJCody Jul 2 2009, 07:02 PM

There's nothing like a DS19/87B radio valve...

Posted by: djellison Jul 2 2009, 07:14 PM

Well - without any books infront of me, I've been looking thru the Hamtests.co.uk foundation licence tests. 64-75% scores on the 25 question quiz, which isn't too bad. A short course should see me thru that fine I think

Posted by: ddeerrff Jul 2 2009, 09:59 PM

Here's an example of Ham radio tracking a balloon. (you can use any random characters as your nick.)
http://aprs.fi/?call=KB9ZNZ-3

Posted by: aggieastronaut Jul 2 2009, 11:12 PM

I'm KE5RDD. I mostly use mine when out storm chasing to keep in touch with our caravan.

Posted by: dvandorn Jul 3 2009, 02:21 AM

Back in the '70s, when I seriously looked into HAM radio, there was still a requirement to learn Morse code, both sending and receiving, at a minimum rate of 12 wpm in order to achieve your HAM license. Learning all that felt a lot too much like work, especially since I didn't anticipate using Morse at any point. So, I sort of lost interest.

My understanding is that the Morse code requirement was dropped several years ago.

-the other Doug

Posted by: nprev Jul 3 2009, 03:38 AM

I think all you need in the US now is a General Radiotelephone Operator's License (GROL). They used to have several classes of licenses, but there's only one now. I got mine several years back (it's also needed to do inspection work on commercial aircraft avionics), and no Morse was needed.

Not to say that the test is a walk in the park, though. Also got the radar endorsement, which was an extra exam section.

Posted by: PDP8E Jul 3 2009, 03:51 AM

As a HAM for a long time I am working with FCC to convert my recently late father's call sign (W1KXT)- also called in this situation a 'silent key' -- to mine. They are usually pretty responsive in these situations.

To all the hams out there, -.-. - -.- ! -.-. - - .-

Posted by: djellison Jul 20 2009, 08:20 AM

Whoops

http://www.uk.amsat.org/content/view/679/266/1/2/

I ended up on the schedule Something of a call to arms for the Amsat community to do the outreach that European scientists and STFC (H1'09 outreach funding cut by 50% for science in society projects) refuses to.

D

Posted by: RJG Jul 20 2009, 11:26 PM

Excellent! Look forward to your presentation, Doug.

Now that the 2009 programme is published I see that I made an error in only booking to go on the Saturday :-(
Goodness knows when I'll get done the stuff I have to do over the weekend, but plans now revised and I'll be there both Sat and Sun. Not sure yet whether I'll be staying over or traveling from home each day.

I see the CU Spaceflight guys will be giving a talk on Saturday. Be interesting to see whether they've recovered their long duration balloon payload from a tree north of Stoke on Trent by then!

Look forward to meeting you!

Rob
Dormant member of both AMSAT-UK and BATC and a rather inactive G8DSU (Too many interests, too little time...)


PS It's worth repeating that BATC will be streaming the presentations live (http://batc.tv 'live events'). I'd expect that the presentations will then be posted as archive recordings as per last year's event.

Posted by: djellison Aug 4 2009, 06:29 PM

Barely out the box - and BOOM. AO51

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_pqTlhN8ss

Couldn't believe it. No licence yet, to no TX'ing, but I'll be listening in.

Posted by: PDP8E Aug 4 2009, 07:19 PM

Doug,
nice gear! Amsat Echo is a great bird to listen in ...
Kenwood (and the others) are getting so tiny!
Cheers

Posted by: djellison Aug 8 2009, 02:47 PM

AO19 doing morse - still with just the handheld and no Yagi yet.

I 'heard' about 7 runs of its telem. format, took me as long to decode it all by hand as it took 19 to get all the way back around again - My best effort at decoding the figures I could understand are attached. Great little bit of fun that.

Posted by: PDP8E Aug 8 2009, 07:04 PM

bravo!
there are some programs and machines out there (tnc's -etc) that automatically decode morse code.
this is one:
http://www.dxsoft.com/en/products/cwget/
You should build a yagi, $20USD of parts and an afternoon, plenty diagrams on the web
good luck!

Posted by: djellison Aug 8 2009, 07:52 PM

I have a dual-band Yagi (70cm2m) on the way

Posted by: PDP8E Aug 9 2009, 12:45 AM

...or you could just order a dual band yagi and get it in the post!
enjoy!

Posted by: PDP8E Aug 9 2009, 12:54 AM

...or you could just order a dual band yagi and get it in the post! enjoy!

Posted by: Okei Aug 9 2009, 03:10 AM

Are you using "valve" in the amplifier sense (specifically, power tube sense)?

Not a HAM, but the daughter of one and an FCC licensee. I have "worked" with power tubes (Tropospheric Scatter and Space/Polarization Diversity Communications Systems). If I were to get my Amateur license; I would learn code.

Cheers

Posted by: Okei Aug 9 2009, 03:24 AM

Please do; when I was involved with the DSN (back in 1979) I was told by our NASA Radio Engineer all of the details I could handle. This was at NASA Ames Research Center. Something about "Hydrogen-cooled MASERs" as their preamps.

In 1985 when I visited the VLA (just prior to the VLBA deployment) they used some other gas (Neon maybe?). Solid-state parametric amps was the technology that was used prior for radiotelescopes, or at least at the VLA it was.

Cheers

Posted by: djellison Aug 17 2009, 08:01 PM

My Arrow Yagi has arrived. Heard AO19 again, very loud. Missed Amsat Echo - but will be listening out over the next few days.

Posted by: djellison Oct 2 2009, 01:53 PM

Well - I passed the foundation licence (24/25...ARHGHG...gutted) - And my callsign M6DGE

I'll be starting an intermediate course in January - and I'm picking up a Yaesu 817 on Monday

Posted by: Okei Oct 2 2009, 04:03 PM

Congrats! What a good score M6DGE.

Posted by: djellison Oct 2 2009, 04:17 PM

I wanted DJE - but it was taken So it ended up being 'Doug E'. I must admit - Delta Golf Echo is better than Delta Juliet Echo.

Posted by: nprev Oct 3 2009, 12:32 AM

Well, Sierra Hotel, dude! Congrats; now you'll literally never sleep...