Water on the Moon, Data from multiple missions seems to indicate... |
Water on the Moon, Data from multiple missions seems to indicate... |
Sep 24 2009, 11:56 PM
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#31
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8783 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
I want my solar powered MSL sized water farming soil munching robot ...known as "Thirsty" for short... -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Sep 25 2009, 01:45 AM
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#32
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1018 Joined: 29-November 05 From: Seattle, WA, USA Member No.: 590 |
Are you sure the water is limited to the top 2 mm or simply that the measurements from space are unable to see below that? I still can't find the original three papers on the AAAS website (even though I'm a member). Perhaps they'll appear tomorrow.
--Greg |
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Sep 25 2009, 06:17 AM
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#33
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
They are on Sciencexpress http://www.sciencemag.org/sciencexpress/recent.dtl
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Sep 25 2009, 06:46 AM
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#34
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14431 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Are you sure the water is limited to the top 2 mm They did explicitly mention figures like that, several times. If it is basically solar 'rain' so to speak, then I can well imagine it being little more than atomic icing. There, clearly, lots more study to be done. |
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Sep 25 2009, 12:01 PM
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 5-January 07 From: Manchester England Member No.: 1563 |
The universe today article mentions that ejecta from young craters were 'rich' in water and hydroxyl, which might mean that some of it migrates to the subsurface and sticks around. Plus it seems hard to have ultra cold traps at the poles, a continuos (but yes very tenuos) supply of water and hydroxyl, and not have significant amounts of ice to accumulate in the subsurface of said cold traps over geological time (micrometeorite impacts might drive off surface ice faster than it can accumulate). It seems logical that there will be areas with only an atomic icing and areas with relatively large amounts at a certain depth. The moon does not seem as dead as once thought today, and coupled with the news of very pure ice on mars it's been a good week for finding ice in the inner solar system. -------------------- |
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Sep 25 2009, 01:34 PM
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 233 Joined: 21-April 05 Member No.: 328 |
Say what you will about the quantities involved, words cannot describe the revolutionary potential -- both from a practical and theoretical standpoint -- of the possibility that the solar wind is synthesizing water on the surface of bare rock!!!!!
I mean, this has been one of the wildest fantasies of mankind, starting with Moses. And yes, yes, I know this is not water gushing from a rock -- but still, guys, it IS water from rock! Stu, doesn't TS Eilot have a line about this? And I'm with Centsworth II -- think about the cost of hauling it up there. And we haven't even begun to think about ways of exploiting even trace amounts of water. What about big pivoting harvesters such as are used on earth for the reverse process, irrigation? Especially if the water is being constantly created?!? C'mon guys, get a life!!!! Water from sunshine!!!!!! Has that ever occurred to any of us, even in our wildest dreams? |
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Sep 25 2009, 01:50 PM
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#37
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14431 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Sorry - I just don't seen enough to get excited about. I found the MRO tele-conf that followed far FAR more exciting.
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Sep 25 2009, 01:59 PM
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#38
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2785 Joined: 10-November 06 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 1345 |
Both are very cool. But I think the lunar discovery is a major paradigm shift.
Mars always had water, and the Moon seems to be getting it even now. Now that the Moon has water molecules, and water molecule transport, that means the moon has a water cycle. Who'd a thunk? Lunar weather. Whoa..... -------------------- Some higher resolution images available at my photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31678681@N07/
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Sep 25 2009, 01:59 PM
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#39
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10127 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
"Stu, doesn't TS Eliot have a line about this?"
T. S. Eliot is an anagram of toilets, so he should know all about water. (paraphrasing Alan Plater here...) Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Sep 25 2009, 03:38 PM
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#40
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Member Group: Members Posts: 813 Joined: 29-December 05 From: NE Oh, USA Member No.: 627 |
For those of us older than Apollo, this is indeed a major paradigm shift.
Craig |
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Sep 25 2009, 04:43 PM
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#41
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1018 Joined: 29-November 05 From: Seattle, WA, USA Member No.: 590 |
Stu, doesn't TS Eilot have a line about this? I'm not Stu, :-) but if you look at "The Wasteland," section V, titled "What the Thunder Said" it has these lines: QUOTE Here is no water but only rock Rock and no water and the sandy road The road winding above among the mountains Which are mountains of rock without water If there were water we should stop and drink Amongst the rock one cannot stop or think Sweat is dry and feet are in the sand If there were only water amongst the rock Dead mountain mouth of carious teeth that cannot spit Here one can neither stand nor lie nor sit There is not even silence in the mountains But dry sterile thunder without rain One could have a lot of fun with this -- imagining the dry sterile thunder to be rocket exhaust and so forth. Here's a link to the whole thing, if anyone's too lazy to google it: http://www.eliteskills.com/analysis_poetry...ot_analysis.php --Greg |
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Sep 25 2009, 04:45 PM
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#42
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Member Group: Members Posts: 202 Joined: 9-September 08 Member No.: 4334 |
Does this data show anything about ice in the permanently-shadowed south pole craters, like the LCROSS target?
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Sep 25 2009, 04:58 PM
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#43
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
No, almost by definition. All these data are from near-infrared spectrometers that rely upon sunlight to illuminate their targets.
-------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Guest_Enceladus75_* |
Sep 26 2009, 12:13 AM
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#44
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Guests |
This is indeed a pretty astounding discovery that has the potential to change everything. Especially coming after the last few years when there was mounting scepticism of any water being present on the Moon.
Planetary science discoveries in ways seem to be like the water on the Moon story - first seen as impossible, then with further discovery, possible, and then probable if not certain. With even closer scrutiny, scepticism creeps in and the original theories are called into question but then a new breakthrough takes place and the earlier theories are either vindicated or a completely new, unknown of discovery crops up - sometimes in a dramatic way. This is how science works! And despite its operational life cut short, it's a fantastic achievement from Chandryaan 1. Will LRO be able to confirm the announcement? Does anyone think the imminent impact of LCROSS will reveal water in its impact cloud? |
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Sep 26 2009, 12:39 AM
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 813 Joined: 29-December 05 From: NE Oh, USA Member No.: 627 |
What a beautiful result. Was there not a mention from the first MESSENGER Mercury flyby about H2O in the exopshere? Would seem that on many airless worlds something similar must happen if the solar wind is the hydrogen source. From dawn to dusk, electric fingers of light weave magic from molecules. The Cosmos is subtle. Boy do I love this. Craig |
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